Then they haven't met me, but that's beside the point.
Originally Posted by bengalcat
Some INFJ's are just as you described. Though, INFJ's tend to want to lead crowds, rather than follow or fit-in. ENFJ's want to fit in, usually, with whatever group they like.
INFJ's tend to want to make others understand and accept their values as a method of creating harmony.
INFJ's may be seen as shifty or manipulative because some are. Others like me wont bother sharing their thoughts in most circumstances. When you have difficult to explain ideas in your head and beliefs that aren't spoken with verbal ease, you don't share your point of view because it's simply impractical to do so. Rather you put your beliefs into your actions.
Your actions might then seem unusual, or surprise people because they don't understand where it's coming from.
Also, a lot of INFJ's have totally botched worldviews. I've gone so far as to say we all do, until we begin developing Ti and Se. So if someone is arguing that the INFJ's they know in grade school are total morons; they probably are. The problem is when you're only using Ni + Fe, you're running on two-cylinders, and the results aren't always pretty, because they would be quite right to ask, "Where is the more solid input from the external environment?"
I think it is more genuine... honest? No, honesty and integrity have to do with what *you* believe and whether you hold yourself to it in outward action. Fe isn't exactly genuine because it's used to adapt to in the moment situations. It interacts in the external world, rather than the internal. Elements of the external are beyond the person's control, still their function must cope and adapt to the situation. This makes all introverted functions "genuine" and extroverted functions less "genuine".
There seems to be this sense that Fi is somehow more honest, genuine and has integrity,
Fe is a tool. It's not the center of an INFJ's values, it can only express and influence them. For an INFJ, values relate more to Ni and Ti. Fe influences can reverberate back into Ni and Ti, to make us rethink our values. Yet whenever we reflect upon something in our head, deciding if it aligns with our values, we're not using Fe. It's extroverted for a reason.
whereas Fe is an outpouring of emotion that isn't tied to any solid, independent values and is simply there to support the norm and promote harmony.
Likewise, when someone is using Se, it's not the center of their values.
The problem is when you combine all four cognitive functions from any type, they can essentially simulate functions you don't have.
This is also off the back of recently testing as being high in Fi and Fe, and seeing what some people on PerC say about how that's kind of impossible or else I must be practically schizophrenic. I don't know, I pretty much tested solidly as INFJ until the last two years when I've tested as INFP.
I am exceptional at using Ti + Se. It can seem very much like I am using Te. If I take one of those useless tests, it will tell me I am using Te. The tests are wrong. Any personality can express any trait if that person has worked at developing that trait in themselves. There are subtle differences in someone simulating Te and someone actually using it, which can readily be observed by another person, but it is incredibly difficult to make the distinction in yourself. I thought I had those extra functions for years, until I took a hard look at how it all flowed in my mind and listened to some people more knowledgeable than me.
INFJ's are markedly different... even when disregarding enneagram, but enneagram points out one such difference.
So maybe the reason why I don't relate is because I'm not the 'purest' example of an INFJ, or because of enneagram contribution (4w5), but I don't know if I think that's it. It's always felt off to me this idea of Fe not having any depth or grounding.
The thing with an INFJ is that pesky Ni. It can be built infinite ways, and since that absolutely defines who the INFJ is, you have a hard time finding two INFJ's alike. There are actually a lot more INFJ's in the world than people think there is. We might be the rarest still, but there are easily double the amount that testing shows.
The problem is that if our Ni relates to and adopts the qualities possessed by another MBTI, we will almost certainly score as that type. We're not using the same cognitive functions as that type. Testing fails to properly identify the difference between someone using a cognitive function and someone using other cognitive functions to act like a certain function.
I could bash on Fi-users, but I've already done that plenty on this forum. Fi is okay, I guess... but I don't care much for Fe either. I'm an Ni/Ti/Se guy.
And honestly, a lot of INFJ's that I see on youtube videos rub me the wrong way.