[INFP] "Depression is illogical, you slacker" - Page 2

"Depression is illogical, you slacker"

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This is a discussion on "Depression is illogical, you slacker" within the INFP Forum - The Idealists forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; Originally Posted by Souled In So yes it is someone's responsibility to facilitate their growth, but it is also our ...

  1. #11
    INFP - The Idealists

    Quote Originally Posted by Souled In View Post
    • So yes it is someone's responsibility to facilitate their growth, but it is also our responsibility to facilitate other people's growth, or at least not to make it worse, and giving someone the stick, can reinforce the failing and low self esteem emotional pathway and habit, that has little to do with being logical or our own free will. If someone already has that pathway strong, then this should be used as little as possible. If someone is on the other end, cocky and arrogant (and not just acting as such temporarily), then using just the stick could reinforce the non empathetic and altruistic aspect of humanity which is the reason they were arrogant in the first place.

    • And if we don't know the information of how arrogant or depressed someone is, which perhaps correlates with optimism (arrogance) and skepticism (depression), in general and not just situational, then we must consider that whatever benefit might be had from bringing out a stick (punishment to whatever degree), might be outweighed by an unseen cost.

      It is a gamble, and, I might throw in here that some people have risk seeking behavior, which can correlate with arrogance and/or depression as well, which might be the reason they bring out the stick (punishment) without having a reasonable idea of the cost.
    Yes I understand what your saying.

    I really can't fathom of any argument which would give justification to the idea that someone can tell another person to just 'get over' his problems feelings whatever or to just 'snap out of it' or 'grow up'.

    It's just insensitive, nasty and yeah like you said you have no idea really how bad the other persons problems are or how much difficulty they are having struggling with something and peoples malicious comments of 'snap out of it' are completely unneeded and totally the wrong way to treat another human being anyway its just damn disrespectful really.

  2. #12
    INFP - The Idealists

    Quote Originally Posted by Raain View Post
    Yes I understand what your saying.

    I really can't fathom of any argument which would give justification to the idea that someone can tell another person to just 'get over' his problems feelings whatever or to just 'snap out of it' or 'grow up'.

    It's just insensitive, nasty and yeah like you said you have no idea really how bad the other persons problems are or how much difficulty they are having struggling with something and peoples malicious comments of 'snap out of it' are completely unneeded and totally the wrong way to treat another human being anyway its just damn disrespectful really.
    I'm with ya. I must say that I don't believe that actions are morally wrong or right, I think the intent is. And I think if someone genuinely slaps someone, out of a sense of love, then it isn't morally wrong.

    That is just my belief, and of course I think that is an extreme action for only an extreme situation, however, I can support that as practical in some situations, starting with a chess metaphor, of taking "one step back" in order to make "two steps forward."

    For example, say someone I look up to, says get over it, I have SO MUCH NEED TO IMPRESS THEM that I do the work necessary to actually in fact make steps towards getting over it.

    However, in this case, the person's presupposed trust was the "carrot."

    The only other example i can think of is if someone is so darn smart, that they know that a comment might send the person running to their "coping mechanism" which actually could even be that mentor they trust but perhaps have turned their back on and got in with the wrong crowd, doing drugs etc... And that would indirectly help.

    I have a less of a problem with people helping from a sense of authority, then I do with people not helping and just saying the statement to hurt.

    Here is a chart of my opinion on this matter:

    Better
    1) Carrot altruism
    2) Carrot stick altruism
    3) Stick altruism
    4) Any altruism while empathizing but also focusing on maintaining power and control
    5) Any altruism altruism while maintaining authority and not empathizing/ Stick
    6) Carrot without altruism.
    7) Stick without altruism
    Worse


    Would you change these around at all?

  3. #13
    INFP - The Idealists

    I think experience is still the best teacher. Unfortunately, it is also the best manipulator.

  4. #14
    INFP - The Idealists

    I also think that it's too simplistic to say that depression is illogical. If you read the research surrounding the idea of "depressive realism" it actually seems to indicate that depressed people have a tendency to be more realistic than non depressed people. For example, non depressed people tend to have high self esteem that leads to them overestimating their abilities, while depressed people tend to have a more accurate perception of their abilities. It could be that the ability to have an unrealistically positive perception of yourself could be an important coping mechanism that some depressed people don't have.

    There is lots of debate about depressive realism, but either way, I think there does seem to be enough evidence to indicate that whether or not depression is illogical could be open to debate , it could even be that in many ways, being optimistic is illogical! I think that extremes of both pessimism and optimism can both be illogical.

    I also think that although we like to view life as a positive experience, the sad truth, is that it isn't always. I think lots of people have logical reasons for why they are depressed. Although, I also think that taking a more active and optimistic stance can be important for overcoming the problems in your life.
    Last edited by Luke; 07-20-2012 at 09:00 AM.
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