[INFP] Giving permission.

Giving permission.

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This is a discussion on Giving permission. within the INFP Forum - The Idealists forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; When its a decision of granting someone the freedom to do something proactive that they told you/decided they would do ...

  1. #1

    Giving permission.

    When its a decision of granting someone the freedom to do something proactive that they told you/decided they would do or to free them of a burden they gave themselves out of kindness, what do you do?
    Respecting someone's freedom versus giving them permission not to do something out of empathy

    Earlier today my dad started searching for a coupon in his car for me like he promised he would do. I figured it must be in the same spot I saw it last time and told him this. He told me that was the last place he saw it too. I figured if it wasn't there he probably wouldn't find it. He probably threw it away like he was saying was a possibility before.

    Well halfway through his searching he told me of his progress and that he hadn't found it yet. He said he was going to keep looking for it so I didn't want to intrude in his freedom even though I didn't think it was that big a deal. My dad told me that I needed to clean my room, sort of passive aggressively, even though he has two rooms and a car that are messy and all I have is a tiny room. I thought it was kind of odd taht I at the last second realized that I could have said that he didn't need to bother with looking for the coupon if he hadn't found it yet. That would be the "nice" thing to do.

    But it seems like either way I was in a position where I was giving him permission, spoken or not. And I think it is a little uncomfortable that I wasn't more perceptive of his feelings. But I understand why I made the choice I made at the same time. In decisions, I think I usually default to letting people do what they want to do.
    entheos thanked this post.



  2. #2

    Not sure I understand the concept of "permission" in this context. I do relate to what you're saying 100% (if I understand the story correctly).

    I want people to want to do the things, and if they don't want to do them, and they're doing them with a feeling of obligation, then I get a panicky feeling that I'm burdening their life and I don't want them to do the thing. So this is why I don't tell people what to do, I don't nag, or request things twice (*)

    (*)It's hard enough for me to make a request/ask a favor/whatever once. And once it will be. Not twice. When the agreement happens (person says: "I'll do that for you") then the ball is in their court, and I won't talk about it again. If they don't do the task, or begin it but never finish it, then I just forget about it or go do it myself for myself behind their back. I repeat: I don't request things twice, that's nagging and makes me feel gross cause I'm imposing my wants/needs/existance on another person, and that goes against my beliefs.

    When its a decision of granting someone the freedom to do something proactive that they told you/decided they would do or to free them of a burden they gave themselves out of kindness, what do you do?

    Difficult to understand this phrase with my limited English skills, but... for me the answer lies precisely in "granting someone the freedom". The ball is in their court, I won't touch or speak about it. I threw the ball, we reached an agreement, they are aware of my wants because we spoke about them, and they gave their word that they'd do it. I don't need any more information than this, I don't need to talk about it further, it's action time for the other person.
    "They gave themselves out of kindness" exactly, they offered to do that, gave their word, etc. it's not up to me to make sure they provide (I can provide for myself), it's up to them to keep their word. And if they don't, I interpret it as either they forgot (which indicates I'm not important to the person, or they don't consider this specific want/need important) or they just don't want to do it and are procrastinating. In both cases, I don't do anything, just give up and go do it myself, provide for myself, u know.

    Respecting someone's freedom versus giving them permission not to do something out of empathy


    I think I grasp what you're saying, but a part of this mental process escapes me. Just me personally, I interpret the "respect someone's freedom" as holistic (sp?), so it already encompasses the whole "Oh but you don't have to do it! please don't go that far for me, I don't want to inconvenience you, blablabla".

    My worst nightmare is to inconvenience someone. So once they tell me "I'm gonna do XYZ for you", the ball is in their court 100%. It's their freedom to do it or not to do it. Whatever happens, I'll take care of my stuff anyways. In this particular case, I would just show up and search the car myself without telling my dad, then report to him "hey I looked in the car and found it/didn't find it".
    I find that with this not-nagging philosophy, people who don't want to do the thing end up not doing it. So time will tell. I give them the freedom of showing with actions what they truly want.

  3. #3

    Quote Originally Posted by entheos View Post
    Not sure I understand the concept of "permission" in this context. I do relate to what you're saying 100% (if I understand the story correctly).

    I want people to want to do the things, and if they don't want to do them, and they're doing them with a feeling of obligation, then I get a panicky feeling that I'm burdening their life and I don't want them to do the thing. So this is why I don't tell people what to do, I don't nag, or request things twice (*)

    (*)It's hard enough for me to make a request/ask a favor/whatever once. And once it will be. Not twice. When the agreement happens (person says: "I'll do that for you") then the ball is in their court, and I won't talk about it again. If they don't do the task, or begin it but never finish it, then I just forget about it or go do it myself for myself behind their back. I repeat: I don't request things twice, that's nagging and makes me feel gross cause I'm imposing my wants/needs/existance on another person, and that goes against my beliefs.

    When its a decision of granting someone the freedom to do something proactive that they told you/decided they would do or to free them of a burden they gave themselves out of kindness, what do you do?

    Difficult to understand this phrase with my limited English skills, but... for me the answer lies precisely in "granting someone the freedom". The ball is in their court, I won't touch or speak about it. I threw the ball, we reached an agreement, they are aware of my wants because we spoke about them, and they gave their word that they'd do it. I don't need any more information than this, I don't need to talk about it further, it's action time for the other person.
    "They gave themselves out of kindness" exactly, they offered to do that, gave their word, etc. it's not up to me to make sure they provide (I can provide for myself), it's up to them to keep their word. And if they don't, I interpret it as either they forgot (which indicates I'm not important to the person, or they don't consider this specific want/need important) or they just don't want to do it and are procrastinating. In both cases, I don't do anything, just give up and go do it myself, provide for myself, u know.



    I think I grasp what you're saying, but a part of this mental process escapes me. Just me personally, I interpret the "respect someone's freedom" as holistic (sp?), so it already encompasses the whole "Oh but you don't have to do it! please don't go that far for me, I don't want to inconvenience you, blablabla".

    My worst nightmare is to inconvenience someone. So once they tell me "I'm gonna do XYZ for you", the ball is in their court 100%. It's their freedom to do it or not to do it. Whatever happens, I'll take care of my stuff anyways. In this particular case, I would just show up and search the car myself without telling my dad, then report to him "hey I looked in the car and found it/didn't find it".
    I find that with this not-nagging philosophy, people who don't want to do the thing end up not doing it. So time will tell. I give them the freedom of showing with actions what they truly want.
    I felt like he actually was secretly asking me for permission to not finish the thing he said he was going to do. I think he feels like he has an obligation to do "dad" stuff that he doesn't want to do because I guilt tripped him into taking care of my brother. [My mom was acting recklessly, doing drugs, drinking and driving, hanging out with a 16 year old she probably had a crush on, turning the electricity off and leaving her children in the dark when she left home to party with him, hanging out with cokeheads, spending all her money on the 16 year old. My dad is a super lazy perciever but I know he actually has ethics.]

    I'll ask people twice if they force me into it. I am pretty helpless without my family so sometimes I have to. But I don't like doing it, and I would rather leave people to their own devices if at all possible.

    Preferably he would have just realized it wasn't a huge deal and that he didn't need my permission not to do the thing and I wouldn't have had to say it.

    but he found it anyways by doing a more thorough search of his car so it was worth his effort.
    Last edited by The Disciple; 06-27-2018 at 08:24 AM.

  4. #4
    INFP

    I generally don't want to be a bother so if I need something and don't know how to do it I ask someone knowledgeable if they can show how to that way I'll be independent the folllowing times.
    In the off-chance that someone actually decides to help me without my asking, I'll thank them and ask them "are you sure you don't mind". And then give them all the freedom they need as long as they keep me informed if they've got any problems!
    But I make sure they're doing it because they want to and not because they feel they have to (which is what I try to do when I say "sure you don't mind?").
    entheos and The Disciple thanked this post.

  5. #5
    INFP

    Yes.

    I do, do this.

    At times, I'll pick-up, on when people. are tired or uncomfortable or want to move on to something else and I'll say something to them, "you may EXIT" -- before they even talk to me about it.

    Don't really know what this is called (?) -- I call it "making it easy" on others. LOL

    I guess the important thing to note here is, I'll give them an "out" or "permission to go play" before they even ask me, if it's okay.
    Row, entheos, The Disciple and 1 others thanked this post.

  6. #6

    People tend to ask me for permission, and I am unsure why. I was on a date with this lady, and we get along very well. She felt the need to ask me for permission regarding leaving the table to buy a pack of cigarettes. While it is polite, I find it odd. Why not just tell me you need to go get something instead of asking me?

  7. #7

    Quote Originally Posted by starberryGhost View Post
    I felt like he actually was secretly asking me for permission to not finish the thing he said he was going to do. I think he feels like he has an obligation to do "dad" stuff that he doesn't want to do because I guilt tripped him
    Ahhhh now I get it :) thanks for explaining it a bit more.
    The Disciple thanked this post.


     

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