[INFP] INFP [Romantic] Relationships with INFJs - share what worked and what didn't? - Page 8

INFP [Romantic] Relationships with INFJs - share what worked and what didn't?

Hello Guest! Sign up to join the discussion below...
Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8
Results 71 to 79 of 79
Thank Tree118Thanks

This is a discussion on INFP [Romantic] Relationships with INFJs - share what worked and what didn't? within the INFP Forum - The Idealists forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; Originally Posted by Marvin the Dendroid Maybe a little... I think it's difficult to be both codependent and dismissive-avoidant, which ...

  1. #71

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin the Dendroid View Post
    Maybe a little... I think it's difficult to be both codependent and dismissive-avoidant, which I very much am. When I feel that unreasonable demands are placed on me, the gut reaction it triggers in me - very difficult to overcome - is to switch off my feelings and walk away. That is a very dismissive-avoidant kind of reaction. I have rescuer tendencies, but they are definitely watered down by my dismissive-avoidant patterns.

    Boundaries are an issue for me though, so ... it's a mixed bag. My subconscious tendencies mirror my mother to a great extent, so looking at her relationship with my father ... there's some kind of codependency there all right, but it's more covert than overt. I guess my communication patterns have a codependent flavour but when push comes to shove, I'm more likely to bail out than stick around to "fix" people. Maybe it's a mix of my parents' behaviours ... one codependent, the other dismissive-avoidant.
    I have an INTJ in my life who has this communication style even though INTJs are meant to be direct. He is definitely dismissive-avoidant and also has boundary issues. Instead of coming to me with a direct question he comes with vague ponderings. That leaves the other person (me) having to do mind-reading and probing which oddly leads to some sort of entanglement which is just the opposite of what avoidant types want.

    The thing to remember is that everyone craves connection but dismissive avoidant fears rejection so instead of directly asking for needs to be met (which might result in a painful “no”), avoidants try to covertly get their needs met by making others put extra work into interacting with them. It becomes a self-fulfilling cycle because it exhausts others and they leave.
    Marvin the Dendroid and L P thanked this post.

  2. #72

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Flower View Post
    I have an INTJ in my life who has this communication style even though INTJs are meant to be direct. He is definitely dismissive-avoidant and also has boundary issues. Instead of coming to me with a direct question he comes with vague ponderings. That leaves the other person (me) having to do mind-reading and probing which oddly leads to some sort of entanglement which is just the opposite of what avoidant types want.

    The thing to remember is that everyone craves connection but dismissive avoidant fears rejection so instead of directly asking for needs to be met (which might result in a painful “no”), avoidants try to covertly get their needs met by making others put extra work into interacting with them. It becomes a self-fulfilling cycle because it exhausts others and they leave.
    Aye.

    Step #1 in self-improvement: figure out what I want.
    Progress: 12%............................

    Step #2: Wait for 100%, proceed to step #3.
    Step #3: Communicate what I want. (Speaking of which, I'd kill for a durian right now.)
    Last edited by Marvin the Dendroid; 03-08-2019 at 05:12 AM.

  3. #73

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin the Dendroid View Post
    I know. Just keep forgetting in the moment... My default style of communication is very indirect and requires people to read my intent since I tend to forget to state it clearly. Just one of those things I tend to be guilty of, you know... Openly stating what I want requires knowing it and fearlessly throwing it at people, trusting that they will know what to do with it. Not my forte no matter how J I am :-/
    On the other hand my ESTP dad always asks me things in an abrupt way that's more like an order, "CAN you do X." Even if he says please, it's in a tone of voice that I don't like.

    ... Just ask nicely! Well he is being nice in his way but for me it's too abrupt. XD I do what he says regardless, but I'm seething.. well maybe not that word... I feel a little upset inside everytime I do a task because of how I was asked to do it...
    Marvin the Dendroid and L P thanked this post.

  4. #74

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin the Dendroid View Post
    Maybe a little... I think it's difficult to be both codependent and dismissive-avoidant, which I very much am. When I feel that unreasonable demands are placed on me, the gut reaction it triggers in me - very difficult to overcome - is to switch off my feelings and walk away. That is a very dismissive-avoidant kind of reaction. I have rescuer tendencies, but they are definitely watered down by my dismissive-avoidant patterns.

    Boundaries are an issue for me though, so ... it's a mixed bag. My subconscious tendencies mirror my mother to a great extent, so looking at her relationship with my father ... there's some kind of codependency there all right, but it's more covert than overt. I guess my communication patterns have a codependent flavour but when push comes to shove, I'm more likely to bail out than stick around to "fix" people. Maybe it's a mix of my parents' behaviours ... one codependent, the other dismissive-avoidant.
    My mind can be very contridictionary at times. You said you have "rescuer" tendencies, I guess what people may negatively refer to as a "messiah complex", I have that. I also have tendencies that somebody needs to rescue me, lol.
    Marvin the Dendroid thanked this post.

  5. #75

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin the Dendroid View Post
    Aye.

    Step #1 in self-improvement: figure out what I want.
    Progress: 12%............................

    Step #2: Wait for 100%, proceed to step #3.
    Step #3: Communicate what I want. (Speaking of which, I'd kill for a durian right now.)
    Ahhhh, but step 3 can help you with step 1, if you are communicating with the right person.

    Anyway, the problem with attachment style is it’s very hard to change it outside a relationship, but once in one the bad habits come back. When I was younger, I tended towards dismissive-avoidant, but as soon as I’d get in a (rare) relationship, I’d switch to anxious-preoccupied. Which must have been quite an about-face for the other person; the rather self-confident somewhat aloof person they knew turned fearful and clingy. What helped for me, ironically, was that my now-husband rather lacks emotional empathy. He is kind and generous with affection, but has incredibly low ability to understand emotion. He does not know what I am feeling unless I tell him. Once I tell him, he knows an appropriate response (he’d really like it if human interactions could be reduced to spreadsheets). So, I learned secure attachment by the “throw her in the deep end of the pool and hope she swims” method. With my husband, if I ask for what I want I often get it. If I don’t ask, I virtually never do. There is a trade-off there, and things I have given up as a result (Basically I need to do the emotional understanding for both of us). But it killed off the crippling anxious tendencies. I still tend to be rather avoidant with people other than my husband. I have few close friends and hate asking for help. But at least within that one relationship, I am mostly sane.

    I have taken attachment style quizzes recently and I score as “secure” but with about equal undercurrents of anxious and avoidant lurking there.
    Marvin the Dendroid thanked this post.

  6. #76

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Flower View Post
    The problem with attachment style is it’s very hard to change it outside a relationship, but once in one the bad habits come back.
    You nailed it. When my "walk away" instinct gets triggered, it is virtually impossible to override: I can't access my heart or my tongue, and my limbs only barely.

    Step 3 can help you with step 1, if you are communicating with the right person.
    I seem to either not communicate with anyone at all, or the few times I do, pick the wrong people ._.

    I have taken attachment style quizzes recently and I score as “secure” but with about equal undercurrents of anxious and avoidant lurking there.
    Glad to hear. I know attachment styles can improve, just don't know how to fix mine.
    Blue Flower thanked this post.

  7. #77

    Quote Originally Posted by DTsuDTsu View Post
    You guys are going to hate me for this, but one word: "CODEPENDENCY".

    It's often the result of abuse or neglect in childhood, but what you are saying is codependency to a TEE. You expect that people will be "decent" in the way you view decency, as you always treat them well and with the best intentions, but when they do not reciprocate (because they unfortunately do not know or get it/understand), thus begins the resentment.

    I feel like the INF- group is particularly prone to codependency, even if in different ways because of the different thinking patterns. What do you think? I could see this being true of my INFJ and me, as well. Definitely me - I know it's a problem for me. But for him, I could also see it, especially as he is a child abuse survivor...
    Co-dependency traditionally involves one person who has destructive behavior and another who enables it. The enabler then needs the person with the destructive behavior to continue being destructive, because that is how the enabler defines self. The enabler actually gets internal reward by being treated badly and “saving” the other from the natural consequences of his or her bad behavior.

    It was originally used talking about partners of addicts, mostly. It has come to be used in a much broader sense that incorrectly captures any sort of relationship boundary issues. Lots of people have boundary issues without being codependent.

    If you read my direct response to Marvin you will see I mention an INTJ I know. The reason there are boundary issues is that he has low ability to express emotions. I have high ability to read emotions. I try to smooth over his deficits by doing that work for him. He finds that a relief (or at least this is my interpretation), and what starts out as a normal human interaction (“I am good at something you are bad at, let me do this for you”) too easily falls into an entanglement situation.

    There is no co-dependency in the traditional sense. My identity does not depend on “saving” him and indeed he does not need “saving.” His behaviors are not even self-destructive. BUT he needs me to “get inside his head” to understand him since he struggles to express himself. And by definition, that is a lack of boundaries.

    What @Marvin the Dendroid describes doesn’t sound like codependency to me. It sounds like a typical behavior pattern for avoidant attachment styles, and to some degree for quite healthy people who are so used to being independent that they don’t learn how to express their needs well because they rarely have them. Many NT-types fall into this category.
    Marvin the Dendroid and secondpassing thanked this post.

  8. #78

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Flower View Post
    What @Marvin the Dendroid describes doesn’t sound like codependency to me. It sounds like a typical behavior pattern for avoidant attachment styles, and to some degree for quite healthy people who are so used to being independent that they don’t learn how to express their needs well because they rarely have them. Many NT-types fall into this category.
    There's a lot of truth in that. I've never been a team player and I used to think for a long time that I didn't have a lot of the needs other people seem to have. Only found out I do after I ran out of juice and found myself empty. Still haven't figured out how to have them met, so I suppose more openly needy people have a headstart on me in that department.

    Apart from whatever innate tendencies I may have, my ENTJ father drilled independence into us. He's the kind of parent who would tell a 3 yo to jump into his arms, not catch you and tell you that this was a lesson in not trusting people. Because you can't trust people, people are arseholes, you've got to make it on your own and all that other TJ BS. Not consistently though, probably only when he was feeling angry.

  9. #79

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Flower View Post
    Co-dependency traditionally involves one person who has destructive behavior and another who enables it. The enabler then needs the person with the destructive behavior to continue being destructive, because that is how the enabler defines self. The enabler actually gets internal reward by being treated badly and “saving” the other from the natural consequences of his or her bad behavior.

    It was originally used talking about partners of addicts, mostly. It has come to be used in a much broader sense that incorrectly captures any sort of relationship boundary issues. Lots of people have boundary issues without being codependent.

    If you read my direct response to Marvin you will see I mention an INTJ I know. The reason there are boundary issues is that he has low ability to express emotions. I have high ability to read emotions. I try to smooth over his deficits by doing that work for him. He finds that a relief (or at least this is my interpretation), and what starts out as a normal human interaction (“I am good at something you are bad at, let me do this for you”) too easily falls into an entanglement situation.

    There is no co-dependency in the traditional sense. My identity does not depend on “saving” him and indeed he does not need “saving.” His behaviors are not even self-destructive. BUT he needs me to “get inside his head” to understand him since he struggles to express himself. And by definition, that is a lack of boundaries.

    What @Marvin the Dendroid describes doesn’t sound like codependency to me. It sounds like a typical behavior pattern for avoidant attachment styles, and to some degree for quite healthy people who are so used to being independent that they don’t learn how to express their needs well because they rarely have them. Many NT-types fall into this category.
    Hmm, but as a recovering codependent, what I stated is exactly what I have been told by professionals (and what I know innately to be true) as part of my own issues and what I am recovering from. Or at least, what I think Lord Pixel was referring to. (About becoming resentful when others do not reciprocate a kindness/support we're expecting when in fact we never let these others know we were hoping for/expecting it in the first place.)

    In fact, if you look up any videos on codependency on Youtube, you can find a lot of information, and most of them will tell you what I have already. I don't mean what Marvin was saying. I was agreeing with Lord Pixel's question posed to Marvin.

    By the way, would it be okay to go back to the main topic, guys? We've gone a bit off topic here!
    Marvin the Dendroid and L P thanked this post.


     
Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 46
    Last Post: 07-31-2019, 02:03 PM
  2. [INFJ] what other personality types are infjs more compatible with in relationships?
    By johnfreakinfj in forum INFJ Forum - The Protectors
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-14-2018, 07:28 PM
  3. [ISTJ] ISTJs, what type has worked best for you in a romantic/dating relationship?
    By Babolat in forum ISTJ Forum - The Duty Fulfillers
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-12-2014, 01:33 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:42 AM.
Information provided on the site is meant to complement and not replace any advice or information from a health professional.
© 2014 PersonalityCafe
 

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0