[INFP] Do You Resent Marketing or Sales? - Page 2

Do You Resent Marketing or Sales?

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This is a discussion on Do You Resent Marketing or Sales? within the INFP Forum - The Idealists forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; I despise it, especially modern incarnation of it.Shallow facade of friendliness, happiness and idiocy masquerading flaws of the products or ...

  1. #11

    I despise it, especially modern incarnation of it.Shallow facade of friendliness, happiness and idiocy masquerading flaws of the products or services in order to manipulate buyer into purchasing it.Don't even get me started on commercials and ads, majority of them phony bullshit that isn't even close to matching reality of the product/service and feeding off most basic instincts of idiotic consumers that eat it up unquestionably, especially adds and commercials with half-naked lady that creators think they will manipulate me with to buy whatever they are trying to sell expecting me to be so retarded that I won't realize they are trying manipulate me by something unrelated to the product. Then we have commercials that way overexaggerate their products or effects of them, be it instant improvement of health/condition upon consuming/applying medicine or reaction as if they were smoking crack once they taste product. I could go on about them but thankfully I don't have to worry about commercials and ads.

    I would prefer simply cold, professional and honest marketing outlying relevant information concerning product/service with bit of creativity and maybe a decent humor here and there. Not some shallow and inaccurate bullshit that advertises something that isn't even close to actual product.

  2. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by Moby85 View Post
    I know I'm only asking for opinions.

    But I've read, for example in the "Please Understand Me" series, that INFPs are not really attracted to commerce, sales, marketing. But here's the thing: in my personal life (so only anecdotal evidence here) the INFPs I know are outright suspicious of me being in such a career.

    I work in a role involving both sales and marketing, when I tell INFPs, almost right away they somehow gear the conversation into things such as my ethics, if I'm manipulative with my marketing or sales techniques. It's a little uncomfortable, the conversation quickly goes "intense".

    Your personal thoughts on others involved in sales and marketing? Do you get suspicious or simply don't care?
    I am resistant to marketing, but I am old enough and mature enough to know that business cannot survive and grow without it. Business and sales create jobs, growth and infrastructure. Without those things, you are plunged into a third-world, hand-to-mouth sort of existence. Someone has to fill all those jobs out there. The whole world can't be idealist philosophers. Nothing would get done. I don't hate, I just do my own thing. I see every facet of life. I used to resent telemarketers, but I am no longer rude to them. They just have a job to do and have to put food on the table. All honest employment is honorable. If we're talking about Phishing scams, that's a whole other discussion. I have no respect for predators who prey on people. I appreciate all types for what they bring to the table. SJs maintain systems and infrastructure, NTs solve our technical problems and come up with creative new things, SPs bring richness to our dealings with people and they entertain us, NFs bring understanding and bridge gaps. I could continue on so forgive me if I left a group out. My point is, I understand all people, therefore, keep doing what you are doing brother.
    Last edited by Dach Novacasa; 03-13-2019 at 09:49 PM.

  3. #13
    INFP

    Quote Originally Posted by Dach Novacasa View Post
    I am resistant to marketing, but I am old enough and mature enough to know that business cannot survive and grow without it. Business and sales create jobs, growth and infrastructure. Without those things, you are plunged into a third-world, hand-to-mouth sort of existence. Someone has to fill all those jobs out there. The whole world can't be idealist philosophers. Nothing would get done. I don't hate, I just do my own thing. I see every facet of life. I used to resent telemarketers, but I am no longer rude to them. They just have a job to do and have to put food on the table. All honest employment is honorable. If we're talking about Phishing scams, that's a whole other discussion. I have no respect for predators who prey on people. I appreciate all types for what they bring to the table. SJs maintain systems and infrastructure, NTs solve our technical problems and come up with creative new things, SPs bring richness to our dealings with people and they entertain us, NFs bring understanding and bridge gaps. I could continue on so forgive me if I left a group out. My point is, I understand all people, therefore, keep doing what you are doing brother.
    The problem is sales don't have to be scamy and manipulative, but it is. Marketing is useful because it gets the word out there, but sales and people pressing other's to buy, why do they need to press and manipulate, is there' product not good enough or useful? If they have to press it's most likely both. With good marketing you don't even need a sales team, when's the last time you seen a commercial to go to Disneyland? probably never because it sells itself. Sales is manipulation because they failed to market properly, that's why they have to push and manipulate and up sell. There are certain products that are so good they go viral. I'd much rather someone just put useful products in front of ppl and leave the choice up to them, once they start trying to convince you, manipulation, and there is a difference between convincing and informing, tell me wut the product does so I know the best fit, don't try and give me a dumb discount and some warranty to buy your crap product. Look at phone cases, this is sales, why don't phone companies design durable phones? Because of greed, and I don't knock capitalism but man things like that do show you it's manipulation.

    Car salesman are the worse, it's not even about some commission off the sale, they are literally selling you to a bank. They reel you in with a low monthly payment and lock you in for the next 5-7 years of monthly payments and sell your now withstanding debt to a frikkin bank. The worse part is you buy a hunk of metal that will lose 20% value in the next 2 years, so you probably pay an extra 2 grand on that 10 thousand dollar car all because you got it new, on top of interest. So yea, low monthly price, manipulation, finance with them, manipulation, they make it so convenient to sign your life away for the next few years, and they get you to pay for the crap deal they just handed you.

    Car salesmen don't have to do that, they can say "Hey here is a monthly price that will get this car paid off in 2-3 years and still be fairly the same value after it's paid off."

    No, they manipulate you to pay the long haul because they know a bank will cut a nice check to take you off their hands and loan you the money plus interest. They are incentivized to get you the crappiest deal possible, by the bank!

    And they don't go to the bank saying "Hey I got a client who wants to purchase a Lexus."
    They go to the bank saying "I got a 7 year contract." If they can prolong that number they would, because the bank will pay more for a longer deal! They use language like "Let's get that monthly payment down."(longer pay period, more money spent long run) Instead of "Let's get the payment period shorter." Mani-pulation.

    If not all, most colleges that have commercials are a hoax. Devry and all that crap, hoax. Harvard or any Ivy league school or any well known local college doesn't need an ad, it's sold purely on performance. If not all, most schools that have commericals also sell students to the bank. They just want to sign up everybody for loans so the bank can pay them off and lock students into debt. They sell BS like, financial aid (we are being SOLD debt!), they sell BS like accreditation, career service, alumini networks. Good schools don't have to sell that crap. Good products don't need salesmanship at all.

    So yea, sales is crap, all sales, not just cars. It's built just like George Carlin said, to get you to bend over and see how far they can stick it in. I actually think all sales is inherently manipulation. Because the minute you have to push a buy for your product, it's no longer selling on it's own merits. The minute someone bys a product beyond it'st merit, they have been manipulated, because they are not buying because the product is infact better, they are being because they have been sold on BS (Low monthly rates, accredidation, discounts, promos) all crap that has nothing to do with the quality of the product, so what is it? Manipulation, to by crap you wouldn't even buy in the first place! Because you'd buy the better thing. They know that so the have to manipulate you to buy that crap because they can't compete otherwise. Marketing is also manipulation, but it doesn't always have to be, sales almost always is.

    The better the marketing the less need for sales people, teams, departments. The world needs to be a place where everyone has access to useful products that solve their unique problems, appeal to their interests, or tickles their fancy, companies inform folks about what the products are and what they do and how they serve people, then give them the opportunity to choose for themselves.


    If people were less manipulated by sales we would have better products and better prices, because people couldn't get away with selling high priced garbage with monthly interest.

    All the crap products would fall to the wayside because people would not choose them, it would be a market of honest competition, the better products would sell and the crap ones would die, like they should or they would at least force lower prices.

    But alas, tis idealism.

    Bit of a tangent there.
    Last edited by L P; 03-14-2019 at 03:19 AM.

  4. #14
    ENFP

    Quote Originally Posted by burningsoul View Post
    Yes. The need for marketing = evil. If something is good for humanity, it should sell itself. At a reasonable price.

    Read Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller and Metamorphosis by Frank Kafka for more insights.
    I would disagree that marketing is evil (it is my chosen career lol) and that if something is good for humanity it should "sell itself". Well, firstly I'd argue a big part of marketing is just making people even aware of a product in the first place. Then, people need to know the advantages and benefits as that's usually not apparent. There's also the need to differentiate from a competitor's product or service with your own uniqueness you bring to the table.

    To me marketing is very positive: informing of existence and informing how it will help you or your business out.
    L P thanked this post.

  5. #15

    @Moby85

    Where did I say that marketing is evil?

  6. #16

    There's a big difference between a copywriter and a car salesman.
    Blue Flower, L P and Anunnaki Spirit thanked this post.

  7. #17

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin the Dendroid View Post
    There's a big difference between a copywriter and a car salesman.
    Marvin the Dendroid thanked this post.

  8. #18
    INFP - The Idealists

    Some marketing is unethical due to the national context. Consider all of the pharmaceutical companies that put ads on TV in the USA directed at end users for prescription medication. There is no issue with over-the-counter medication (no prescription needed). Since controlled substances (e.g., antidepressants, anti-anxiety meds, anti-mania meds, etc.) cannot be purchased by users without a prescription from a physician, directing ads for medication at the general public in hopes that the users would pressure physicians seems both foolish and unethical.
    Marvin the Dendroid thanked this post.

  9. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by Moby85 View Post
    I would disagree that marketing is evil (it is my chosen career lol) and that if something is good for humanity it should "sell itself". Well, firstly I'd argue a big part of marketing is just making people even aware of a product in the first place. Then, people need to know the advantages and benefits as that's usually not apparent. There's also the need to differentiate from a competitor's product or service with your own uniqueness you bring to the table.

    To me marketing is very positive: informing of existence and informing how it will help you or your business out.
    I'm not sure I would wander into evil territory but by very nature of capitalism marketing is deceitful and designed to manipulate potential client in order to maximize profit, in marketing truth or lies are only tools to maximize profits and nothing else matters.As you pointed out it's about advantages and benefits of the product (and quite often exaggeration of them) but also omission of negative aspects of the product, so in short you will hear only information that will encourage you to buy a product, so lets not pretend this is benevolent practice, it is self-serving one.So ultimately it doesn't come to whether marketing is deceitful as it pretty much is, question comes to if it is mutually beneficial as for such it's both consumer and producer benefit with satisfying price for consumer and beneficial/desired product/service or it's predatory and price is not appropriate for a product and product is leaving a lot to a desire.

    I also would disagree with notion if product is good it will sale on it's own merit, in modern times it is unlikely, it simply means product will be very likely buried under mountain of other products, with perhaps small group of consumers that would buy it. I've saw too many shit products with good marketing that succeeded (especially true for exploiting known brands and franchises) and good ones that didn't do too well because poor marketing.I would even argue that marketing is most important aspect of selling the product.Marketing works, but again so do conning people and there are plenty moral objections people rise against it.

    So to sum up, if you are a merchant marketing is wonderful tool of increasing profit, if you are a consumer it is a tool designed to trick into buying something and whether it will be ultimately good product or service or not you can't trust it to be honest as it's designed to not be in your best interest but in interest of people that want to sell a product as after all they work for them.

  10. #20

    Quote Originally Posted by Moby85 View Post
    I know I'm only asking for opinions.

    But I've read, for example in the "Please Understand Me" series, that INFPs are not really attracted to commerce, sales, marketing. But here's the thing: in my personal life (so only anecdotal evidence here) the INFPs I know are outright suspicious of me being in such a career.

    I work in a role involving both sales and marketing, when I tell INFPs, almost right away they somehow gear the conversation into things such as my ethics, if I'm manipulative with my marketing or sales techniques. It's a little uncomfortable, the conversation quickly goes "intense".

    Your personal thoughts on others involved in sales and marketing? Do you get suspicious or simply don't care?
    I'll bite.

    In some detail, could you explain what sort of products you sell and what methods you use to sell them?
    Blue Flower thanked this post.


     
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