[INFP] Using Te effectively - Are INFPs assertive?

Using Te effectively - Are INFPs assertive?

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This is a discussion on Using Te effectively - Are INFPs assertive? within the INFP Forum - The Idealists forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; According to socionic theory, an INFP would struggle to utilize his inferior function, Extraverted Thinking. Exemplification of this function would ...

  1. #1
    INFP - The Idealists

    Using Te effectively - Are INFPs assertive?

    According to socionic theory, an INFP would struggle to utilize his inferior function, Extraverted Thinking. Exemplification of this function would be the definition of assertion: to put forth his rational and logical thoughts and transform it into a substance of action and control. With the leading function of introverted feeling, characterized by a withdrawn perspective of the world through emotions and passivity through the wish of creating harmony, it may be difficult for the INFP to assert himself and be a leader comfortably and naturally.

    From my personal experience, my fears of failure or being wrong or leading ineffectively result in me choosing to be passive in roles of leadership. My obsession with my feelings justify my failure to create action and cripple me from growing out of this paradigm of passivity. It's a self-perpetuating cycle that can only be broken only with immense energy and the consciousness and desire to push oneself out of the mental paradigm. Of course, the degree of this cognitive difficulty varies among individuals and can be found in other personality types through their experience and parental role models that taught them passivity. However, let's be generalizing and assume being assertive and dominant is a difficulty for the INFPs. And by assertive and dominant, I don't mean loud and extroverted. I specifically mean to be in control and to lead, even if it's through actions rather than words.

    Through this assumption, were there any INFPs that were able to change? If so, what are your thoughts.
    ethylester, Zeta Neprok, FreeBeer and 4 others thanked this post.



  2. #2

    @mylifemyradio

    This has more to do with the position of Se (volitional sensing) in relation to Ne in the cognitive structure of INFPs. INTPs have the same problem.

    Its called Se PoLR or Se point of least resistence. Se is an INFPs second worst function aka weak and unvalued.

    ..and I quote:

    The individual tends to overreact to aggressive or confrontational behavior, taking it as a personal threat when it may only be a knee-jerk reaction or the result of a bad mood.

    He tends to avoid intruding on others' space or engaging in behavior that may be perceived as coercive, and tries hard to handle his needs by being disciplined and well-prepared himself - rather than relying on others to do things for him. If these strategies fail, his efforts at dealing with the resulting conflict make him look actively pushy in a way that appears awkward and unnatural to others. This opens him up to painful criticism and feelings of weakness and helplessness.

    He is able to moralize and instruct others about what they should do and why, but he is not prepared for others' active resistance or refusal to do as he says. In his mind, this would require him to put aside reason and good feelings and simply make the other person do what is necessary. This is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for him to do.
    This combined with Fi and the need for harmony makes INFPs one of the least pushy and assertive types.

    Te has more to do with objective logic aka "book smarts knowlege" such as how light works and how to make use of that. Te does not make one more or less assertive then Fe for example.

    INFPs are supposed to enjoy learning Te logic and apreciate people who are wellsprings of this kind of thing / people who try to do rational and worthwile things efficiently.
    Last edited by LibertyPrime; 01-15-2014 at 02:13 AM.

  3. #3

    Quote Originally Posted by mylifemyradio View Post
    According to socionic theory, an INFP would struggle to utilize his inferior function, Extraverted Thinking. Exemplification of this function would be the definition of assertion: to put forth his rational and logical thoughts and transform it into a substance of action and control. With the leading function of introverted feeling, characterized by a withdrawn perspective of the world through emotions and passivity through the wish of creating harmony, it may be difficult for the INFP to assert himself and be a leader comfortably and naturally.

    From my personal experience, my fears of failure or being wrong or leading ineffectively result in me choosing to be passive in roles of leadership. My obsession with my feelings justify my failure to create action and cripple me from growing out of this paradigm of passivity. It's a self-perpetuating cycle that can only be broken only with immense energy and the consciousness and desire to push oneself out of the mental paradigm. Of course, the degree of this cognitive difficulty varies among individuals and can be found in other personality types through their experience and parental role models that taught them passivity. However, let's be generalizing and assume being assertive and dominant is a difficulty for the INFPs. And by assertive and dominant, I don't mean loud and extroverted. I specifically mean to be in control and to lead, even if it's through actions rather than words.

    Through this assumption, were there any INFPs that were able to change? If so, what are your thoughts.

    I don't see myself as non-assertive. I'm not aggressive, but not passive either. I see this more as an e9 issue, not INFP. But socionics FiNe sounds e9....

    I have a problem with figuring out logistics more than not being able to assert myself. I am not uncomfortable leading, I just prefer not to because of the responsibility involved. To me it feels like Fe faking - having to be concerned with meeting others' needs or some general protocol, and that feels like it encroaches on meeting my own, which feels suffocating. If I can't find a win-win, then I don't want to be the one to make the decision, because I don't want to shoulder the blame.

    So I like to go it alone, to maintain autonomy and ability to meet my own needs. I have a not-so unconscious fear of being swallowed up by others, of being eclipsed by their desires and needs, mainly because of lack of reciprocation on their part (I give and compromise...they do not). Instead of seeing leadership as power to dominate, I see it as responsibility that drains and requires self-sacrifice for the greater good. And yes, that is a matter of being driven by feelings, or rational values, which effect how I act in situations. Out of this is a fear of NOT acting in-line with my values (which I think is what you're getting at), where I am forced to compromise in order to make a decision, aka, steamroll other people. I don't want to be the hypocrite who claims to act for the greater good but who is really benefitting themselves. I just avoid that position altogether.... And it's not out of a sense that I do have power. I don't feel helpless or unable to assert, rather I feel I purposely hold back so as not to unleash very strong feeling that oppresses others. When I was younger, I inadvertently did this when expressing my opinions & tastes; it looked like judgment against those who differed, because of the passion I felt for them.

    But my real problem is when I want to reach a goal and I don't see the step-by-step process. I see potential, the big picture, a concept, but breaking it into steps that work in reality to reach an end goal is hard for me. When I try to do it, I gloss over too many details and end up with an idealistic plan that is doomed to fail because it didn't take into account many factual details.

    When left to my own devices, there is a method to the madness which is no method at all, but just the madness of someone with enough artistic flair to garner enough admiration to pay the bills. So I get stuff done by immersing in a process of no steps, but idea experimentation & tossing about until some pasta sticks to the walls.

    --- EDIT: Instead of using any kind of objective measurement to do stuff (which I see as Te), I kind of pound on fruit and know when it sounds right & I got a good one. It's some weird way of determining when something is "right" or "good" that involves no measurement that anyone can define easily. From the outside, the process can look bizarre, hence being seen as art over strategy.
    FreeBeer, mushr00m, Afruabarkio and 5 others thanked this post.

  4. #4

    It sounds like you are talking about an INFJ. We are the ones who let things slide for the sake of the harmony of the environment. I think INFP may be sensitive to assert themselves for different reasons. Most things just aren't worth causing conflict over, so I rarely have to assert myself in a way that makes me uncomfortable. Though I do sometimes wish I had the toughness of an INTJ.

    I am not difficult. Conflict always arises because somebody is being "difficult". I am never difficult, so I rarely find myself in conflict. I don't Te, because it's not my nature, and I don't think it is effective. I try to defuse a situation that allows every party involved to save face. Just Teing up the place isn't gonna solve anything. You gotta mesh it. Or else resentment will remain, and you are just kicking the can down the road. Te is a short term solution, Fe is long term.

  5. #5
    Unknown Personality

    Quote Originally Posted by FearAndTrembling View Post
    It sounds like you are talking about an INFJ. We are the ones who let things slide for the sake of the harmony of the environment. I think INFP may be sensitive to assert themselves for different reasons. Most things just aren't worth causing conflict over, so I rarely have to assert myself in a way that makes me uncomfortable. Though I do sometimes wish I had the toughness of an INTJ.

    I am not difficult. Conflict always arises because somebody is being "difficult". I am never difficult, so I rarely find myself in conflict. I don't Te, because it's not my nature, and I don't think it is effective. I try to defuse a situation that allows every party involved to save face. Just Teing up the place isn't gonna solve anything. You gotta mesh it. Or else resentment will remain, and you are just kicking the can down the road. Te is a short term solution, Fe is long term.
    Just for the sake of the environment and effectivity in communication, who is the 'you' you are referring to? Or is that 'you INFPs' as in 'we the INFJs' ?

  6. #6

    Quote Originally Posted by mimesis View Post
    Just for the sake of the environment and effectivity in communication, who is the 'you' you are referring to? Or is that 'you INFPs' as in 'we the INFJs' ?
    I'm talking about the original poster. It sounds like his post was describing INFJ as much as INFP. This line in particular:

    passivity through the wish of creating harmony, it may be difficult for the INFP to assert himself and be a leader comfortably and naturally.
    That is how INFJ tend to act. We don't like to assert ourselves, and put external harmony above expressing our true feelings. INFJ are also poor leaders. We may be "spiritual leaders", but tactical leaders, no. We like to work behind the scenes. We don't want the spotlight, but want to be appreciated. We are ideas people. Or inspirers. Similar to INFP. Like OrangeAppled was saying. We have grand visions, but have trouble shading them in. And we hate that these messy details have to muck up our dreams.

  7. #7
    Unknown Personality

    Quote Originally Posted by FearAndTrembling View Post
    I'm talking about the original poster. It sounds like his post was describing INFJ as much as INFP. This line in particular:
    Thanks for clearing that out.

  8. #8

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeBeer View Post
    @mylifemyradio

    This has more to do with the position of Se (volitional sensing) in relation to Ne in the cognitive structure of INFPs. INTPs have the same problem.

    Its called Se PoLR or Se point of least resistence. Se is an INFPs second worst function aka weak and unvalued.

    ..and I quote:



    This combined with Fi and the need for harmony makes INFPs one of the least pushy and assertive types.

    Te has more to do with objective logic aka "book smarts knowlege" such as how light works and how to make use of that. Te does not make one more or less assertive then Fe for example.

    INFPs are supposed to enjoy learning Te logic and apreciate people who are wellsprings of this kind of thing / people who try to do rational and worthwile things efficiently.
    But then we have TJs who are known to be more assertive overall... Te seeks efficiency so it would make sense to become assertive when it sees that things are done inefficiently. I see that in myself as well, but I tend to be assertive only to people I'm close to and not on acquaintances.
    Aelthwyn, ButIHaveNoFear and Teen Rose thanked this post.

  9. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by FearAndTrembling View Post
    It sounds like you are talking about an INFJ. We are the ones who let things slide for the sake of the harmony of the environment. I think INFP may be sensitive to assert themselves for different reasons. Most things just aren't worth causing conflict over, so I rarely have to assert myself in a way that makes me uncomfortable. Though I do sometimes wish I had the toughness of an INTJ.

    I am not difficult. Conflict always arises because somebody is being "difficult". I am never difficult, so I rarely find myself in conflict. I don't Te, because it's not my nature, and I don't think it is effective. I try to defuse a situation that allows every party involved to save face. Just Teing up the place isn't gonna solve anything. You gotta mesh it. Or else resentment will remain, and you are just kicking the can down the road. Te is a short term solution, Fe is long term.
    Here is where I differ from both INFP and INFJ and it is again Se related. I simply assert my point of view both Fi and Te. In the case of Fi I'm very confident and can with ease plow through other people's volition, am willing to back up my subjective choices with whatever means necessery withn the limits of my personal ethics. This means I have an unyielding and commanding presence / will not take crap from anyone or anything. While I also avoid coercive behaviour and dislike aplying it (I don't like telling people what to do, its their choice), I am prepared to defend myself and my personal choices by steamrolling others through a continued assertion of will.

    In the case of Te I lack confidence and solicit outside input in order to arrive at objective truth. This is more maliable, however I become equally assertive when I have the facts to back it up and the logic actually exists aka it works in practice.

    What usually holds this back is my unwillingness to damage people or to ruin relations with them, so I apply it as diplomatically as possible.

    This also has the sideeffect of me being straightforward/direct. What you see is what you get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Panda View Post
    But then we have TJs who are known to be more assertive overall... Te seeks efficiency so it would make sense to become assertive when it sees that things are done inefficiently. I see that in myself as well, but I tend to be assertive only to people I'm close to and not on acquaintances.
    Neither of them has Se PoLR. In all cases Se is either strong and unvalued or weak and valued.

    Se PoLR people just don't value steamolling people. They prefer to keep the peace if possible. They percieve differently. Both ENFPs and ENTPs are similar in this to INFPs and INTPs.
    Last edited by LibertyPrime; 01-15-2014 at 04:41 AM.
    Ahiko and FearAndTrembling thanked this post.

  10. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeBeer View Post

    Neither of them has Se PoLR. In all cases Se is either strong and unvalued or weak and valued.

    Se PoLR people just don't value steamolling people. They prefer to keep the peace if possible.
    That's what I'm saying, they don't have Se PoLR yet they are assertive, likely because of Te.
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean with Se PoLR though. I thought INFPs have Si and not Se at all.


     
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