[INTJ] Musings about a functional distinction between Ne and Ni - Page 2

Musings about a functional distinction between Ne and Ni

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This is a discussion on Musings about a functional distinction between Ne and Ni within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Originally Posted by the_skilled_objectivist Tl;dr Ni works by connecting ideas, noticing patterns, changing perspectives, etc, etc, but only so it ...

  1. #11

    Quote Originally Posted by the_skilled_objectivist View Post
    Tl;dr Ni works by connecting ideas, noticing patterns, changing perspectives, etc, etc, but only so it can gain some crucial deep insight that Te or Fe can verify and act upon. Ne works by noticing patterns, gaining insights, changing perspectives, etc, etc, but only so it can find more emergent possibilities and ideas that Fi and Ti can play with.
    I like that you mention that Te or Fe want to act upon the information. I recently posted something in the INTJ forum about wanting to know how to build all kinds of machines. It was suggested that it would be easier to just live a simple life in which those machines weren't necessary. I felt my point was missed entirely—it's about knowledge for its own sake and the potential, not actually executing anything with it in the real world.

    I like to summarize like this (though take this with a grain of salt as I'm not sure any of it is necessarily correct):

    Ne Ni
    Divergent/outward orientation (extroverted function) Convergent/inward orientation (introverted function)
    Possibilities/potential Probabilities/prediction
    More open to simultaneously accepting multiple perspectives/
    sometimes struggles to not see shades of gray
    Prefer one correct/appropriate view/answer
    May be focused more on the question May be focused more on the answer

    In picture form (was looking for inward and outward arrows to indicate divergence/convergence and thought this seemed rather congruent with my mental image of the two functions), Ne on the left, Ni on the right:


    Additional thought: I find that Ne is the function I most often associate with the feeling of pure joy. Being handed a topic that generates lots of questions that generates lots of answers, especially when there's an absence of mutual exclusion in many of those answers, is akin to that feeling a child has waking up on Christmas morning—it's one of the most exciting and fun toys I can think of. Not sure if that's a thing unique to Ne or has something to do with its position in my particular functional stack (brainstorming impractical possibilities irritates the heck out of my ISFJ mother for sure!).
    jeb, skilled empiricist, ewdenore and 1 others thanked this post.

  2. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleptic View Post
    I like that you mention that Te or Fe want to act upon the information. I recently posted something in the INTJ forum about wanting to know how to build all kinds of machines. It was suggested that it would be easier to just live a simple life in which those machines weren't necessary. I felt my point was missed entirely—it's about knowledge for its own sake and the potential, not actually executing anything with it in the real world.
    Yeah, I think that's the one of the biggest differences between INxPs and INxJs. For INxJs, insight and knowledge serve as catalysts for actions, whereas I think INxPs (especially INTPs) tend to gather knowledge and insights for the pure joy of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleptic View Post
    I like to summarize like this (though take this with a grain of salt as I'm not sure any of it is necessarily correct):

    Ne Ni
    Divergent/outward orientation (extroverted function) Convergent/inward orientation (introverted function)
    Possibilities/potential Probabilities/prediction
    More open to simultaneously accepting multiple perspectives/
    sometimes struggles to not see shades of gray
    Prefer one correct/appropriate view/answer
    May be focused more on the question May be focused more on the answer

    In picture form (was looking for inward and outward arrows to indicate divergence/convergence and thought this seemed rather congruent with my mental image of the two functions), Ne on the left, Ni on the right:
    That image is pretty much exactly what I was trying to get at with my rock analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleptic View Post
    Additional thought: I find that Ne is the function I most often associate with the feeling of pure joy. Being handed a topic that generates lots of questions that generates lots of answers, especially when there's an absence of mutual exclusion in many of those answers, is akin to that feeling a child has waking up on Christmas morning—it's one of the most exciting and fun toys I can think of. Not sure if that's a thing unique to Ne or has something to do with its position in my particular functional stack (brainstorming impractical possibilities irritates the heck out of my ISFJ mother for sure!).
    That's an interesting take on the matter, and I think it's fairly accurate as well. I think there's a certain joy in Ni also, but it's more of the stereotypical 'eureka' type spikes in joy that come from some sudden insight that can be acted upon. I think those sudden moments of deep insight are essentially what Ni users are fueled by. Ne users seem to be characterized more by a consistent state of carefree, yet contemplative, fun.

  3. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by jeb View Post
    @the_skilled_objectivist

    Thanks for your thoughtful reply! I’m now interested in reading your dissertation in its entirety when I have some free time tonight!
    I'm looking forward to it
    jeb thanked this post.

  4. #14

    Quote Originally Posted by Eu_citzen View Post
    Not sure, adding in Fi seems like a bit much speculation for me atm. I think Ni could be "programmed", but I can't specifically think how.
    I think the combination of aux Te, a strictly utilitarian function, and tertiary Fi, a generally idealistic function, are up to the task of directing Ni. INTJs with abnormally strong Fi are probably prone to having somewhat utopian philosophical views and basing their insights and predictions off of that. INTJs with particularly strong Te are probably more prone to using Ni to find objective truths about things and coming up with extremely well thought out plans to accomplish some predetermined goal.

  5. #15

    Quote Originally Posted by Eu_citzen View Post
    It does not go exploring for the sake of exploring.
    mmmmpghnmnnnn . . . i want to agree with you. in fact, based on my limited contact with people i knew to be using ne, i do. it's just that i put it up against my own lifelong experience of 'why are you bothering to think of that' and 'no reason, just thinking' and so on, and i start to question how come i do want to agree.

    my (again pretty limited) observation of ne-ers is that for them it's the stuff they collect that has meaning for htem. or generate out of thin air. they magpie. it's swag. 'what you want to go bringing all that back for' 'no reason, shiny!'

    ni (mine) is exactly the same but it's not about generating things. it's about connections. i'm more excited about collecting the joins and relationships between things than the things themselves.

  6. #16

    Quote Originally Posted by lilysocks View Post
    mmmmpghnmnnnn . . . i want to agree with you. in fact, based on my limited contact with people i knew to be using ne, i do. it's just that i put it up against my own lifelong experience of 'why are you bothering to think of that' and 'no reason, just thinking' and so on, and i start to question how come i do want to agree.

    my (again pretty limited) observation of ne-ers is that for them it's the stuff they collect that has meaning for htem. or generate out of thin air. they magpie. it's swag. 'what you want to go bringing all that back for' 'no reason, shiny!'

    ni (mine) is exactly the same but it's not about generating things. it's about connections. i'm more excited about collecting the joins and relationships between things than the things themselves.
    My POV comes more from the discussions and things I've experienced with Ne-users. When I've engaged in their "exploration".
    Because the handful of Ne-users I've meet haven't been "thing" oriented at all, it maybe a bit different to your experience..

    But all of them have been into the whole "intellectual exploration", or generating things and ideas out of thin air.
    They're the kind that would ponder on if the universe isn't just a lab-bottle in an alien lab being rattled about. Because it's fun.

  7. #17

    Quote Originally Posted by the_skilled_objectivist View Post
    I think the combination of aux Te, a strictly utilitarian function, and tertiary Fi, a generally idealistic function, are up to the task of directing Ni. INTJs with abnormally strong Fi are probably prone to having somewhat utopian philosophical views and basing their insights and predictions off of that. INTJs with particularly strong Te are probably more prone to using Ni to find objective truths about things and coming up with extremely well thought out plans to accomplish some predetermined goal.
    So, I've had some time to ponder on it. And I think you may be jumping to conclusions.
    Because it depends on what values Fi holds to, being another individualistic function. What if a strong Fi values being a realist?


    INTJs with strong Te, I think, tend to be "problem solvers", in a way.

    It gets intriguing if the INTJ in question has both strong Te and Fi, though.

  8. #18

    Quote Originally Posted by Eu_citzen View Post
    the handful of Ne-users I've meet haven't been "thing" oriented at all, it maybe a bit different to your experience..
    it may be terminology too. not that i know very much about people's real-life types, forget about remembering which ones are a sign of ne. but i'm thinking about a definition of 'thing' that includes the intangible, i.e. a concept or an idea is a thing to some folks. idk if that sheds any light; not that i'm trying to pull your pov into alignment with mine.

  9. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by lilysocks View Post
    it may be terminology too. not that i know very much about people's real-life types, forget about remembering which ones are a sign of ne. but i'm thinking about a definition of 'thing' that includes the intangible, i.e. a concept or an idea is a thing to some folks. idk if that sheds any light; not that i'm trying to pull your pov into alignment with mine.
    No worries. I see it is an exchange of ideas/experiences, so thanks for the clarification, I did read it like you meant a more materialistic "thing".
    lilysocks thanked this post.


     
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