This is a discussion on INTJ Method(s) of Developing/Enhancing INTJ Empathy within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Originally Posted by hornpipe2 lol wat Empathy is the ability to understand and share feeling with another. How can someone ...
Put myself in the place of YEE!
Anyway, to wrap up my whole involvement with this thread (looking forward to the next one coming up soon), I just want to point out that Empathy is a human trait; it is one of many things that separate us from most animals (though there are many indicators that animals also have empathy). Empathy transcends type; it even transcends understanding. We know it has to do with the amygdala, the functionality of the limbic system, but we don't really know why we have it, just that we do.
As humans, INTJs have empathy. We can be stirred to compassion or identification. We can become angry when someone is going through terrible times. We can become sad or worried when someone we care about is having difficulty. In our way - our human way - we will strive to make the load lighter where we can and to allow for natural healing where we perceive we have no power. Like any other human throughout time, we may rage at the gods, cry ourselves to sleep, or whisper to our friends about the pain of too much longing, the pain of too much love, the pain of the suffering of any of our fellow humans.
It is in some people's nature to compete against others in their empathy, but it tends not to be in the INTJ nature. We just empathise. We can do it as quietly or loudly as anyone else, but we do. Just because we may not express it the way certain individuals (I'm not even going to say INFJs, because I do get at least it's an individual's choice to take issue with some sort of personal fallacy and try to make it a type thing when it's not) want us to doesn't mean we don't have it.
There are at least 6 human beings in my life I would die for. As irrational as it might seem, it's true. And I wouldn't think twice about it. And I would do that just so that they wouldn't have to endure any pain again. I may not love often, but when I do, I love deeply and completely. To say that I am incapable of empathy cheapens my relationships with those who I love. It is a terrible insult.
Last edited by brightflashes; 05-27-2019 at 01:05 AM.
Research â€” Martin Nowak
If I make a mistake, or even believe I make one, I feel panic (although I never show it, I just... stuff it back down. lol...).
I know it comes from being very bad at understanding or noticing the feelings/emotional states of others when I was a kid, and experiencing a lot of negative consequences by upsetting people unknowingly. It was strange because I could, at the same time, pick up on a lot of what was going on around me, I just didn't know how to interpret it and so basically ignored it.
When we discuss how INTJ responds to empathy, it seems like maturity level should be a consideration when we say how adept INTJ is or isn't in dealing with emotionally complex situations or empathic responses.
This is in contrast to Fe, where 'the other' comes before the 'self'...I am curious what you think of this statement sounding like the Fe perspective.We are conscious of ourselves because we are conscious of others; and in an analogous manner, we are conscious of others because in our relationship to ourselves we are the same as others in their relationship to us.
Anyway, I agree with you, and would take it a step further where one cannot even know what anyone feels unless they are given 'clues' about the other's emotional state. I don't care how psychic (N) people think they are, they are most likely unconsciously processing cues when they believe they 'feel' what others do, even though those cues can be incredibly subtle and numerous.
When a person does display what they feel in such a way as to allow others to pick up on it easily (for instance, sobbing, or shouting for joy), another person might react similarly to what they have picked up on, as you said. We can 'feel bad' when someone else 'feels bad' or 'feel good' when someone else 'feels good', but I can't imagine it is anything more than a generalized emotional reaction to certain triggers, not one that leads another to feel exactly what someone else is feeling.
(although it gets even more complex when I consider how specific behaviors can promote specific emotional states, such as smiling or laughing... that suggests that there are generalized emotional states that everyone could experience the same way, if not simultaneously... yet, I still would expect there to be some differences between people the majority of the time, and that the trigger in and of itself is not capable of producing exactly mirrored states between people)
What someone believes about those feelings (when they have them), or what they do with them (or don't do), is an entirely different story, and arguably the more important question when it comes to how we deal with one another.
Many people are saying that here, it seems.
I suspect your argument is not so different from what other people are saying (especially the parts I bolded), but you are saying it in a way that sounds a bit strange. When you say "flattened out", for example, I am guessing you mean "reserved," which has different connotations.
Let me come at it this way – if empathy is characterized solely by the Feeling functions, are you saying that INTP would also not be able to use empathy effectively with inferior Fe? How does that manifest, in your opinion?
About INTPs (ISTPs are also inf. Fe). Ti-Ne is the life dedication of an INTP - tinkering with ideas. A concept, its possibilities and the myriad connections that every concept can make with other concepts must be deeply engrossing for an INTP. Emotion, any emotion disturbs that process and they try to keep it repressed. All inferior processes disturb the dominant two. Note that F is Fe for INTPs and Fi for INTJs. Fe is not personal emotions but the emotions of the tribe, of the group the ibdividual is a part of. I don't think empathy figures significant in an INTP's life. Recall Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory empathizing (with I don't remember who). At best it is an act so they can get rid of being expected to empathize. At a level lower than in INTJs, feelings are the most unprocessed part of an INTPs psyche. Watch this to see how emotions are like for an INTP:
Notice Dave says that INTPs want to purge their emotions. Notice the level of discomfort. Fi is a shadow function. So, its expression is like a gremlin to an INTP. Also, he is only talking about doing the EJ thing and not actually doing those.
That you like Dave Powers explains SO MUCH about why we keep clashing. Thanks so much for providing me with that one clue that was like gees, how in the world am I clashing with an INFP?
Are you an INFP in OP or is it in MBTI? Just wondering. You can answer in PM since this is off topic.
To reduce the number of assumptions about what I'm addressing, I'm going to break up your points and address them directly instead of all together.
I'm not sure how it follows that someone who enjoys debate would not be able to express empathy on the basis that they use Te when forming logical arguments... is a debate generally something that is a highly empathic experience for people? Maybe I'm too INTJ to get it.
The question is this:
Do you mean to say that INTJ doesn't experience empathy, or
that they don't act on their experience of empathy?
that they simply would not 'want' to experience it, based on if they feel discomfort with it?
I'd say all three of those are false as universal statements.
I'm not sure how I'd fit the quote within the MBTI because I take it as the development of consciousness which is one's relation to the world primarily before one achieves a reflexive quality to one's consciousness.
Where even the Fe person is reflexive, but their focus and how they value the external differs where as Fi shys away or 'devalues' the object.
Indeed, all communication is mediated as we most certainly do not have mind to mind telepathy but communicate with artefacts, where even our bodies are culturally connotated and socially meaningful so that when I do a certain gesture with my hand and arm, another person can interpret it.
Although things like emotional expressions whilst also culturally connotated do seem to have a seemingly natural sense for early communication in which even a baby gets upset when their mother stops interacting and blankly stares at them rather than smile.
And yes, this is also why I wouldn't say that one feels the same way as the other person because we have to work at sort of syncing up with people which isn't as easy as telepathy probably is or like the Empath in Guardians the Galaxy 2 who touches people and really does feel exactly what they're feeling.
And in regards to different reactions to a certain trigger, it makes me think of a line about consciousness mediating our response to things.
https://ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden...eterminism.pdfBut for example, an impending event cannot cause me to prepare for it, the sight of a juicy steak cannot cause me to steal it: consciousness always mediates between stimulus and response.