[INTJ] Does he want to be friends? (Married INFJ/f, Single INTJ/m)

Does he want to be friends? (Married INFJ/f, Single INTJ/m)

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This is a discussion on Does he want to be friends? (Married INFJ/f, Single INTJ/m) within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; So... Where to start. I feel like I'm in high school again lol, just a few decades late and with ...

  1. #1

    Does he want to be friends? (Married INFJ/f, Single INTJ/m)

    So... Where to start. I feel like I'm in high school again lol, just a few decades late and with the complications of adulthood. I'm a happily married/f/INFJ, mid 30s, (hubby is ENFP). He is single(?)/INTJ/mid 30s? I'll call him Gary.

    I attend a one week class with Gary a couple of times a year. We joined at the same time a couple of years ago and had a group project that didn't go well - it exploded in drama between him and another group member who was being an ineffective leader, or something. I didn't know either of them and even though I was super annoyed with the whole thing, I was of course peacekeeping...very vague recollection. Gary ended up in different circles in the class cause he knew some people there from before and we've never spoke since.

    An aside: I generally don't talk about my husband in this class (lots of photos of us social media though) because I've been building my own friend circles and community. While it's great to be adopted by an ENFP and it's increased my capacity for social interactions, I'd like to have my own friends that are with me for me, not because of my bubbly hubby, if that makes sense. I need to rebuild my sense of identity which I lost for a while. Because of incidents in my past I do have trust issues around men (I get that not all men are douchebags and I've been doing work on increasing my personal sense of safety)...for example, when I attended an event that had trust falls, my issue was not the falling...i was freaking out and I cried at the thought of all the hands that would be touching me... Anyway, I've talked to my hubby about developing close friendships with guys - knowing my trust issues, he was incredibly supportive and has given me the freedom and trust to build the friendships I need, so no issues there.

    Last year there was a poetry assignment, to write poems inspired by people in the class, and I was surprised he that he'd selected me for one of his poems. I'm an expat so I'm used to people being fascinated by my differences, though it doesn't help my INFJ angst. I felt mildly awkward as he read it out, but my class mostly know I'm married, even if they do occasionally mock flirt with me.

    A bunch of us had dinner afterwards and I ended up sitting near Gary. When he talked about how everyone is always drawn to the loudest or most powerful people in the room, I replied that's not how it works for me - I go by who I connect or resonate with, or who I feel I can support and contribute to.

    We ended up talking about some challenges Gary had at work - he was thinking of leaving coz it didn't align with his long term goals and I gave some ideas on how it wasn't unaligned and he could build on it without leaving but having to talk to his business partners. The conversation was flowing in bits and pieces coz we were still in a group setting where I kept getting interrupted by a friend who knows my husband and I...this friend knows I'm really private and don't like talking about myself, and for his amusement kept putting me in the spotlight on some of the work I've done in my business with my husband, so I ended up sharing about some of our work with the table. This friend is highly successful and respected, and I half-joked that he was spotlighting me to avoid talking about himself (I met him through my husband...with friends like this who needs enemies #mortified)

    In a move that's generally unlike me, I joined Gary and his clique for drinks afterwards. I was pretty quiet but enjoyed the company. He was goofing around and they seemed pretty comfy as a group, lots of laughter. Someone brought up MBTI and most of them were INTJs plus an ENxP. Gary thought he was INTJ, but he wasn't sure/couldn't remember. He does seem to match some of the characteristics. No one asked and I didn't mention my profile. At the end of the night he was being weirdly irritable and made me play a song he likes on my phone while getting Uber. (I actually liked the song and it became a regular on my playlist).

    A few months later we were back for another class. On the first day Gary "picked" me as a project partner - I didn't realize we'd paired up till I turned around and he was just standing behind me. I didn't think anything of it, it's a group of 30 odd people so it's probably by chance, right? 🤔

    There's a few people I'll normally drift around but I'm with different people for meals and projects, so I don't have a strong clique. Another time, Gary was leaving to doing a coffee round and offered to get me a coffee, which has never happened. I guess it's normally just within his clique, who weren't there.

    The classes tend to be really interactive, really intense, really challenging, and with really long hours. While I'm generally warm and friendly esp to the newcomers, (I figure it's easier than breaking into existing groups), I'm very focused on my work. During a different project Gary came up to ask for my help/time. I was working in focused / mildly stressed mode so I did my best to entertain him while deflecting his request to someone else while I worked. He had again (briefly, like 1 sentence) talked to me earlier in the class which was itself unusual, but because he seems pretty competent I was surprised at what and why he was asking for my help. Because I was sitting and working at a table with a group of people, the easily distracted and oh so helpful extroverts started responding to him (haha!) and I shrank back to work, even though he seemed to be wanting to keep engaging me in the conversation (body faced towards me, speaking in my direction).

    Another time, he started telling me about his pet keeping him up the previous night... Thinking back, at some point he even brought up that first disastrous group project during class, there was a group of us and he was like (addressing me)
    Him: "hey, remember that, haha?"
    Me:...(oh is he talking to me? Nods mutely)... "oh? yeah...yeah.."
    Facepalm.
    I don't know how to not embarrass myself in public settings, I swear I'm more articulate... But that's a topic for another thread...

    On the second last day the teacher came to work with someone seated next to me. Gary came and hovered in front of my desk, presumably waiting for the teacher to be done with the student next to me. He picked something up from my desk and made some random comment as he fidgeted with it. It was the first time he made eye contact (or maybe first time I noticed?) And it was like suddenly a connection came alive. We didn't speak the rest of the class but I became very conscious of his presence, and absence. Super weird given he was practically invisible to me for 2 years.

    At the end of class we get into a huddle, arms linked. Gary came in when we were already gathered up, and I only noticed when the girl next to me prodded me to make space to allow him into the circle (why didn't she just do it? I dunno). For some reason he was standing right behind me and I couldn't see him when I turned back, which seems weird to me... wouldn't you stand to the side or in between where you want to be brought into the circle? Anyway Gary ended up next to me with our arms linked. And then left without a word at the end.

    So maybe I'm slow, but it was only a few days ago I've realized that throughout the last class we interacted nearly 10 times, mostly initiated by him and a couple of times I nearly jumped out of my skin coz I'm not expecting it...I guess my Fe keeps a pulse on what's happening in the room so I always know when a friend is going to talk to me but he's breaking out of my expected behaviour patterns by interacting with me and it's driving me nuts. It sounds ridiculous for a smallish group but like I said it went from him practically being nonexistent with ZERO interactions to me suddenly wondering...wait, is he saying something? I also can't believe it took me a month to realize his behaviour was so unusual... which I find really perplexing because I'm usually really tuned in and I'm on top of things like this... BUT in my defense I'm always stressed in that class and I've read that INJTs are impenetrable vaults.

    As an expat I don't have many close friends here, and as an INFJ I crave deep connection and I can't shake that sense of potential connection after the eye contact. Weird, I know, but I've read about this mysterious INFJ/INTJ connection and I'm wondering if Gary could have picked up on it during before I did? In our dinner conversation I did end upv telling him things I normally wouldn't say, like how lost I felt at different points in my life and had to reinvent myself...that's not something I tell many people. And beyond dinner I did end up joining them for drinks, also not very usual behaviour for me. I'm probably reading into this way more than I should.

    Obviously being married I'm not looking for anything more than friendship, but I am very selective about my friends and I guess as an INTJ he would be too... So me wanting to seek out that connection might seem weird? Would it look like I'm leading him on? And of course all that has me lamenting the modern sexualization of friendships and thinking about my marriage/hubby and the 8 different kinds of love (philia, eros, pragma, storge, etc etc) and why/what I might be looking for in this friend connection... #overthinking

    I'm not going to see Gary for a few more months and know he's super busy with work right now... I think it would be really weird to contact him out of the blue. After reading up on INTJs, it seems they don't want needy/clingy friends so while I'd like to be friends I don't want to come across that way. He just seemed...softer? But that's all now in retrospect so I could be completely off. I also don't want to reach out to him in class and embarrass myself if he ignores me, ugh...I think it would be super obvious to his friends and mine that I'm mingling outside of my usual circles and I'd feel SO awkward if he doesn't want to be friends and he was just bored without his friends...

    Sigh. Here I am obsessing on Reddit, mortified that Gary might somehow come across this but also super curious how things went at work after our dinner conversation months ago and how to approach him as a friend, knowing that both our personality types are more likely to just not be initiators. I know INTJs are supposed to be masterminds so maybe I'm overthinking and projecting too much intention on him haha?

    So, what am I wondering?

    • Does he want to be friends?
    • What was with the eye contact, could that have been accidental?
    • Does he actually want to befriend me because he enjoyed the conversation we had at dinner, or because my friend kept putting me in the spotlight and now I'm a collectible-could-potentially-be-useful-for-something-in-future acquaintance in that calculated INTJ way?
    • Given that his usual clique wasn't around, was I just the "best of the rest" and things will return to normal ie stop talking to me when they're back?
    • Do I just wait it out or will that seem unfriendly and he'll close off?
    • How do I handle him just appearing out of thin air and making me jump out of my skin, and then I'm too thrown off to actually mumble more than a dumb "yeah" response?
    • How do I show that I'd like to be friends?



    TLDR: If an INTJ talks to you in the absence of his regular clique even though he's ignored you all this while, is he befriending you? How do you INTJs show someone you want to be friends?



  2. #2
    Unknown


    That was long. :) but better that way.

    Intj =/= masterminds. Not all intjs are smart. Some are avg and many below. IQ is not represented equally among intjs. Nor is EQ. Most intj here on perc are way beyond avg intjs in society. While many of the very best have surely left this place during the years for other places way more selective. That being said. Id find an outside the box solution for you here and that is change em both for an infj.

  3. #3

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizzie View Post
    Id find an outside the box solution for you here and that is change em both for an infj.
    Hahaha. It's long coz I think I needed to put my thoughts down hoping it would start to make sense to myself too

    I would love some INFJ friends, but haven't been able to find / connect with any where I am :(

  4. #4
    Unknown


    Dont worry about getting internal order, happening right now. The second thing here: There are plenty of them here on their own sub-forum. Sure, lots of mistyping will occur too but as youll surely get along with some of them, just send them PM and ask for cont det exchange. Then skype, meet up and so on. :)

    Nevertheless, lets see what other intjs think about the present dilemma now shall we.

  5. #5

    First, you've got to work in a way to let him know that you're married. During a conversation, mention your husband's perspective on a topic that you two are discussing.

    Second, you've created an account and come here to ask INTJs to analyse this guy's behaviour. I don't know if this is genuinely because you want to be friends with him and you wonder what boundaries are set up or if it's because you sorta want us to tell you that he's interested in you romantically. Because, hey, it feels good to know you still got it, right?

    This is a slippery slope. Can you be 100% honest with your husband about everything you do/share, etc... with INTJ if you do become friends? Would you be able to manage your own feelings if you become close with this INTJ?

    I'd strongly suggest to talk to your husband first about your suspicions about this guy before you decide whether or not you want to be closer friends with you.

    Does he like you? Enough to talk to you and want to work with you. But you're just stringing someone along if you're not up-front about your marriage. INTJ will not only lose interest but will also probably label you as "dodgy" or some other sort of thing like that if he thinks you were purposefully keeping your marriage from him.

    It feels wrong to me. And I figure if it feels wrong, it's probably wrong. But to each their own.

    PS, If an INTJ is talking to you, 90% chance they want to be friends with you.
    Hizzie thanked this post.

  6. #6
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderfoollife View Post

    So, what am I wondering?

    • Does he want to be friends?
    • What was with the eye contact, could that have been accidental?
    • Does he actually want to befriend me because he enjoyed the conversation we had at dinner, or because my friend kept putting me in the spotlight and now I'm a collectible-could-potentially-be-useful-for-something-in-future acquaintance in that calculated INTJ way?
    • Given that his usual clique wasn't around, was I just the "best of the rest" and things will return to normal ie stop talking to me when they're back?
    • Do I just wait it out or will that seem unfriendly and he'll close off?
    • How do I handle him just appearing out of thin air and making me jump out of my skin, and then I'm too thrown off to actually mumble more than a dumb "yeah" response?
    • How do I show that I'd like to be friends?



    TLDR: If an INTJ talks to you in the absence of his regular clique even though he's ignored you all this while, is he befriending you? How do you INTJs show someone you want to be friends?
    You obviously have another question that you aren't saying here: Does he want to be more than friends? How do I let him know I'm not available?

    If he is frequently initiating contact, then probably yes, he would like to be friends, or at least get to know you better. That's pretty straightforward. Does he want to be more than friends? Maybe. I agree with @brightflashes , let him know that you aren't available before it gets embarrassing for everybody. Talk about your husband in conversation, and how happy you are with him. That generally does the trick. If you want to be friends with him, how about inviting him to some kind of group event with other friends, and let him know your husband is coming as well. That sends the message pretty clearly.
    brightflashes, Hizzie, Eu_citzen and 3 others thanked this post.

  7. #7

    it's hard to say. so many words, and so many of them about you ;)
    Eu_citzen, brightflashes and Necrofantasia thanked this post.

  8. #8

    @wonderfoollife - Do you wear a wedding ring? If not, then why not?
    brightflashes thanked this post.

  9. #9
    Unknown Personality

    "Does he want to be friends?"
    I would say he wants to be friends, or simply you are someone he finds familiar/interesting at these classes and comfortable with approaching. As for the extent of friendship (on the scale of just friends to besties) I couldn't tell.

    "What was with the eye contact, could that have been accidental?"
    Well generally we look at people when we speak to them? What can be sure is that the connection you felt is what 'you' felt. If it was mutual or not you probably aren't going to know unless you are a mind reader (I have yet to meet anyone who has this skill) or he confesses something. I think it is perhaps people generally make eye contact in conversation.

    "Does he actually want to befriend me because he enjoyed the conversation we had at dinner, or because my friend kept putting me in the spotlight and now I'm a collectible-could-potentially-be-useful-for-something-in-future acquaintance in that calculated INTJ way? "
    When we have a space in conversation where we share ourselves with another person this create intimacy and allows/maintains a connection. It's why you will share things with your closest friends and generally not strangers. It's the glue that forms and holds relationships (friends/romantic/etc.) together. So that evening may have established something more than just being an acquaintance or stranger at an event. So it could be he wants to be friends (outside of these classes), or a more like a work friend (just when attending these classes), or simply it is for networking. He may not be even going to the same extent as you in defining what social role you are each playing and simply just find you interesting to converse with.

    "Given that his usual clique wasn't around, was I just the "best of the rest" and things will return to normal ie stop talking to me when they're back?"
    Not all people are aware of or stick with their 'clique'. Sure if the people he is usually friendly with isn't around then it is a rational choice to find and hang out with someone else he knows. Its either that or standing around by himself feeling awkward. It depends how much value he puts on the relationship whether he stops or continues talking to you when his 'clique' is back. Mind you it is generally polite to say 'hi' to someone you know even if they aren't in your immediate friend group so I would be surprised he would cease all communication with you when his friends are back.

    "Do I just wait it out or will that seem unfriendly and he'll close off? "
    For this question I ask what is it that you want out of this situation? It is more authentic to respond in a manner which is in alignment with who you want to be and what is comfortable for you. If what you want is friendship then it makes sense to take steps or behave in a way that communicates that. If not then simply wait it out.

    "How do I handle him just appearing out of thin air and making me jump out of my skin, and then I'm too thrown off to actually mumble more than a dumb "yeah" response?"
    The power of actually telling people what you want is incredible. That is he probably doesn't know nor is he intending to startle you. You could simply tell him that you are finding him appearing behind you quite startling and you would prefer if he made some noise or approached more side on. Or if you are startled rather than mumbling your response when still in the act of being startled you could just say "you startled me" to give yourself time to formulate your response. If you still need more time so you aren't fumbling with your words then again tell him what you want, such as "I need to think about that, I'll get back to you."

    "How do I show that I'd like to be friends?"
    Generally acting like a friend. That is showing interest such as saying hi to him and asking how he is, including him in in things or group activities, and also making the effort to meet his invitations as well.



    Well from my perspective (which may or may not be INTJ), generally speaking i'm not going to be friends with everyone. There are probably people I work with who I 'know of' but that's the extent of it. If however I get to know someone on a more personal level then yes I would make more of an effort to say hi when I see them or if I found myself in a situation with them then yes I would talk to them. Sure I may not have really spoken to them some time beforehand. It's simply this person is more familiar.

    Now if I'm at an event where none of my friends or work colleagues I spend most of my time with aren't around then I will gravitate to someone else I know or have some familiarity with. I probably won't hang out with a total stranger if I know someone else at the event. This does not mean I want to be best friends. If friendship is something I may desire then regardless of people I know being around me I'll make the effort to talk to this person. If I get a sense that this isn't to be reciprocated then I back off and move on.

    Generally speaking, if I were to make a new friend, first I would have established the ability to have an intellectual connection and interesting conversation with the person. Then I would invest more time into the interactions with this person. I would accept invitations to spend more time with the person. Depending on how close the relationship felt I would perhaps initiate contact outside of the events we generally interact in (be that work/classes/place where we mutually attend) and will offer invitations to group activities with friends.

    I'm also currently going through a faze where I'm challenging myself. So yeah I would contact someone out of the blue to initiate a potential friendship as I don't want to let personal fear/insecurity hold me back in life and I want to grow my confidence. Generally This kind of interaction is not expected.
    Green Girl thanked this post.

  10. #10

    Hmm surely he already considers you as friend.

    About that eye contact? I think when you opened up and talked to him you formed a connection with him. The eye contact is just affirming that.

    Dom Ni & Dom Ni's speak the same kind of language so forming a connection is easy. Just don't let it run so far and ruin your actual family relationship okay?

    You're overthinking it. Just be natural and be friends. View and treat him as a friend and he will do the same (hopefully). Pay attention to friendship boundaries, make sure neither of you cross it and all is good.

    Oh and introducing your husband to him is probably a great idea too.


     

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