[INTJ] What Happens When An INTJ Is Betrayed??????? - Page 4

What Happens When An INTJ Is Betrayed???????

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This is a discussion on What Happens When An INTJ Is Betrayed??????? within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Originally Posted by Blue Flower I see this topic come up from time to time on INxJ forums and I ...

  1. #31

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Flower View Post
    I see this topic come up from time to time on INxJ forums and I am often curious about it. I see the door slam/ walk away response a lot, and being a P type of course that is not my normal response to frayed relationships; the door to reconciliation is always open unless someone was, say, violent and that hasn't been something I have personally faced.

    But what I am curious about isn't the response to betrayal, it is this idea of betrayal itself. Like, how often are you betrayed and how does an action get the label "betrayal?" I am well into middle age and I am searching my memory for someone who I thought betrayed me and I can't for the life of me think of anyone. It sounds just so dramatic. I've been hurt, let down, disappointed, stunned, and all sorts of other not-desired feelings from all sorts of relationships, of course. But I'm not sure I've been "betrayed."

    It seems like something that happens to emperors and knights and those whose agent steals their original work and turns around and profits from it.... it doesn't seem like a feeling I would get from a personal relationship.
    The door slam method is not really a "shock" response, only more so an internalized disappointment that (Ni) was correct. In other words, for me at least, the door slam was planned.

    I have already given the specimen a chance before they have even done anything wrong. To my mind, they have already messed up simply because they have a strong potentiality to and I am just giving benefit of the doubt before the "betrayal" occurs. I am not betrayed often, but when it happens, it happens. And you know.

    Depending on the specimen I give them the benefit of the doubt (e.g., familial, friendship, etc), in spite of already knowing I have a high possibility of being betrayed. Which is why the betrayal often occurs close to home and rarely by (strangers + more formal means) where any perceived possible betrayal never sees the light of day.

    In my case, without tremendous detail, I was robbed by very close family member I trusted a large amount of money to (to be put to it's initial purpose, lied about it's whereabouts - then wasted it without remorse). I know, because the money was in my name, but instead, she attempted to steal it, and I will never be able to get it back (as she is not financially well off). It is not so much the money I am upset about, but the actions taken. The behavior was immoral, sociopathic, malicious, deceptive and intentional - she has ignored taking responsibility, and our relationship I feel is over at this point. There is nothing to reconcile - as she has the potentiality to cause harm without remorse/empathy/regard.

    This isn't her first sketchy-behavior, but by far the worst. We had a solid, trustworthy foundation which is why I count it as betrayal. If you have never been "betrayed" then good. I wish it on no one.
    Last edited by Catwalk; 06-17-2019 at 10:44 PM.
    Green Girl, EyesOpen, Necrofantasia and 4 others thanked this post.

  2. #32

    Quote Originally Posted by Catwalk View Post
    The door slam method is not really a "shock" response, only more so an internalized disappointment that (Ni) was correct. In other words, for me at least, the door slam was planned.

    I have already given the specimen a chance before they have even done anything wrong. To my mind, they have already messed up simply because they have a strong potentiality to and I am just giving benefit of the doubt before the "betrayal" occurs. I am not betrayed often, but when it happens, it happens. And you know.

    Depending on the specimen I give them the benefit of the doubt (e.g., familial, friendship, etc), in spite of already knowing I have a high possibility of being betrayed. Which is why the betrayal often occurs close to home and rarely by (strangers + more formal means) where any perceived possible betrayal never sees the light of day.

    In my case, without tremendous detail, I was robbed by very close family member I trusted a large amount of money to (to be put to it's initial purpose, lied about it's whereabouts - then wasted it without remorse). I know, because the money was in my name, but instead, she attempted to steal it, and I will never be able to get it back (as she is not financially well off). It is not so much the money I am upset about, but the actions taken. The behavior was immoral, sociopathic, malicious, deceptive and intentional - she has ignored taking responsibility, and our relationship I feel is over at this point. There is nothing to reconcile - as she has the potentiality to cause harm without remorse/empathy/regard.

    This isn't her first sketchy-behavior, but by far the worst. We had a solid, trustworthy foundation which is why I count it as betrayal. If you have never been "betrayed" then good. I wish it on no one.
    That I understand.

    Having been raised by an alcoholic father who would take money from anyone, I learned early to guard anything I value and only share after people have proven their trustworthiness, which is not the same as their love.

    I’m not saying that is a good lesson to learn early. It isn’t. And many in the same situation go the other way and relive the pattern.

  3. #33

    Ha the melodrama. It chills the relationship, of course. But my abiding hatreds are not reserved for betrayal so much. They're reserved for wrongdoing from people I never even had enough association with to ground any emotion I'd give that name to.

    To rouse hostility I think the persons behaviour would have to have been intentional. Most of the time my second and third processing cycles add nuance that makes the event fail that test. No point yelling at someone for how they feel imo. That disqualifies 40% of cases. Then some other proportion fall under 'can't yell at someone for not being something you shouldn't have asked them to be in the first place.'

    I get the usual, initial reactions, and I have the usual, internal longing for resolution and equalization and stuff. If they took something material from me I might ride forth and do my best to make them give it back. But most betrayals take more emotional than material capital from you. Im not sure I relate to the same model for getting that back.
    Squirt and Blue Flower thanked this post.

  4. #34

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Flower View Post
    That I understand.

    Having been raised by an alcoholic father who would take money from anyone, I learned early to guard anything I value and only share after people have proven their trustworthiness, which is not the same as their love.

    I’m not saying that is a good lesson to learn early. It isn’t. And many in the same situation go the other way and relive the pattern.
    I would not consider it a betrayal if she had not demonstrated/proven her trustworthiness to begin with (e.g., years). Otherwise, it is just a "shit out of luck" scenario. (E.g., robbed by the milkman). Anyway, her behavior was growing sketchier overtime, it is a complex situation, another being she is sitting behind a diagnosed NPD/sociopath that has been alienated by the entire family for malicious acts, but I did not expect her to side with these actions - which shows me her moral compass. Anyway, this is the last straw & glad she's gone, she is not immediate family, but she does need to be kept at a distance.

    Sorry to hear about your father.
    Last edited by Catwalk; 06-18-2019 at 10:31 AM.
    Blue Flower thanked this post.

  5. #35

    Revenge, forgiveness or surrender.

    Revenge is a lot of planning, patience and luck. Generally demands too much effort, and time will dilute much.

    Surrender is probably the most common option as it is realized that no action can realistically be taken. This results in the INTJ being even more closed.

    Forgiveness is actually the only way out. It's not about forgiving others alone, but also yourself. The only issue is the ego, and sometimes value and morality in the way.
    Squirt thanked this post.

  6. #36

    Quote Originally Posted by Catwalk View Post
    Sorry to hear about your father.
    I appreciate that. I have learned, though, that being angry about a leopard having spots does nothing about the spots, and only results in being angry when other, better, emotions might have been experienced instead.

  7. #37

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentNote View Post
    Revenge, forgiveness or surrender.

    Revenge is a lot of planning, patience and luck. Generally demands too much effort, and time will dilute much.

    Surrender is probably the most common option as it is realized that no action can realistically be taken. This results in the INTJ being even more closed.

    Forgiveness is actually the only way out. It's not about forgiving others alone, but also yourself. The only issue is the ego, and sometimes value and morality in the way.
    When the other person mentally, physically, and emotionally, ceases to exist in the life and world of the INTJ going forward, even if physically present, is that revenge, forgiveness, or surrender?

  8. #38

    I'd probably call that... no longer relevant.

    But something in between forgiveness and surrender? idk.

  9. #39

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamuela View Post
    When the other person mentally, physically, and emotionally, ceases to exist in the life and world of the INTJ going forward, even if physically present, is that revenge, forgiveness, or surrender?
    all of those things sounds to me like they're mutually exclusive with 'cease to exist in the life of the intj'. it's scorekeeping about how their fancy gesture affected the other party. or how they themselves frame whatever happened. you can't have any of those things without a party of the other part to have them on, for or to. they're all transitive nouns.

  10. #40

    Walk away. Canít change people, canít make Ďem understand what they donít want to/incapable of understanding, canít change whatís done, and the reason why doesnít really matter. Why bother?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Kamuela thanked this post.


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