This is a discussion on The Saddest @@ INTJ Has Given Up Hope, Trust, and Caring. TRUE???? within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Originally Posted by Kamuela The "Path To Truth" think I've heard from others, too, is just a justification for lack ...
With every thing horrendous I just get better at dealing, so falling into deep feelings of hopelessness get less and less.
I cannot say thing(s) effect me as greatly once you live and survive the worst of things. Feelings of hopeless + trust take a lot for me to feel - since I have lived through the worst of my life, imo and have overcame what I thought would be a "dead end". Near death experiences, sickness, death of loved ones, loss and more losing. I am not a cynic. I have made peace with most things.
Last edited by Catwalk; 07-16-2019 at 12:12 PM.
I can be this way when in a Ni-Fe loop, but overall I think I'm pretty well grounded. Went through some depression as a teenager (not seeing a way out of my situation at the time), but eventually got over the worst of that.
For me, I don't really get into a "that can't happen" mentality - I might realize that it will never happen unless I'm willing to give up other things to make it happen, but "never" is a strong word for most things in this life. Things often don't happen on my set schedule, but that doesn't stop me from pursuing them (my racing is the perfect example of this).
If anything, I've managed to develop a bit of a "fighter" mentality. Even when I'm down and not "happy" I'm not about to give up, and if anything, will just stubbornly put my head down and keep on pushing. I'm sure a lot of that stems from my upbringing and just who I am as an individual, but short of a the somewhat rare Ni-Fe loops, can't say this is a big issue in my world.
Now, all that being said, I do NOT have an attitude of needing or relying on other people in my life - I might temporarily or occasionally rely on someone who's earned that level of friendship with me, but NEEDING someone else I have a strong aversion to. Some of that, again, stems from my upbringing, and a split/divorce 7 years ago solidified that "don't rely on anyone else for anything you NEED" attitude. So my loner-status got a little amplified....
I apologise in advance for this post, but you did ask. Here's what an INTJ-A that's far too gone to save thinks. INTJ is a curse. People online constantly make out like it's this great desirable set of traits, but my life experience is the total opposite.
Sad is an understatement. I'm more of a 'can't stand living in this cruel hell' sort of vibe. I (normally) try not to spread this negativity around externally (made that mistake too many times), but internally, I don't even believe in my own 'passions' anymore. I feel like I don't want to live, and it isn't some 'depressive state' where I need to see a doctor (done that), it's developed into my perspective of the world. My entire existence revolves around trying to cope with the fact that I'm this "INTJ" thing; a cruel joke that doesn't even make sense. I'm utterly direct yet seemingly always misunderstood, disliked by most as some know-it-all, armchair-expert arsewipe. All my achievements are taken for granted because people just expect it, even if it's in a new hobby or interest I have literally zero experience in (not that I need validation). Constantly having my self-confidence seen as a threat because of people's own insecurities, so forever a target for others to take down a peg. Always making paradoxical claims and statements that make perfect sense to me, but to others seem like some sort of nutjob rambling, so often accused of having no internal consistency. Forever trying to solve others' life problems, but every attempt to solve my own issues either backfires because of my own inadequacy (surprise, surprise, logic doesn't work for everything), or lulls me into a false sense of hope, before shattering my dreams of a light at the end of the tunnel. I always have answers to everyone else's suggestions on how to fix my life, perhaps the cop-outs of a stubborn, arrogant person who refuses to listen. It's like eternally living in solitary confinement, for a crime I never committed, or wasn't even accused or charged of. People will open the cell door when they need my help, or just to prod me with a stick for their own enjoyment, but will then lock the door behind them once they get their needs catered to.
Yes, I've given up hope, because it is delusional wishful thinking, writing a cheque I won't ever cash. Hope does nothing but crush my soul upon realisation I'm lying to myself to save face, or to be be somewhat optimistic. I don't trust anybody, because everybody I know or loved has betrayed my trust in some respect. No loyalty, the lot of them. I'm not letting anybody in, because I wouldn't even know where to start on that one. Yet I still care a bit, and I don't understand why. I shouldn't care about people who turn up after years looking for help/advice, when all they did was leave me to fester in the gutter. I shouldn't give a crap about a stranger I just met, in need. Yet I'm always there, like some kind of mug, desperate for a momentary piece of human interaction. Maybe it's different this time...nope. I guess I genuinely like helping people where I can? Maybe it's to impress them, i dunno, there's probably some selfish reason behind it, as ever. I survive by self-isolation, plodding onwards, because I don't have any other choice. I won't top myself; I won't give this world the satisfaction, and I'm not a quitter. I could try to use my "highly valued" logic and problem solving to apply to a highly irrational & illogical world, but I already tried that way too many times. I know how that story ends. I shouldn't have ever worked on my feeling side, because now I also feel bad, as well as thinking this way. And the mind never stops, every second of every day I have to think this crap. Even my 'dreams' torment me by manifesting depictions of how my life should have been, then cruelly awaken me to realise I still exist in hell. Having imagination is really fun.
I've dealt with things by simply retreating to my own world. Typical INTJ, reclusive loner bs. People isolated me, so I did the job properly. I'm now a complete fantasist, living in my own head. Working out obsessively for those lovely endorphins that momentarily relieve my existential malaise. Making art as a distraction, & a futile attempt to try to express that I can't express with words. Learning about everything I don't need to know, sometimes to help others, but generally to win some pointless argument to prove I'm right (yet again). Wasting time, waiting for the reaper. Basically non-solutions to the problems I face, utter avoidance, fully knowing I can't or will ever possess the personality or social skills to actually function properly in society. The more I tried, the worse things seemed to get, so giving up was inevitable. I haven't had anything resembling a support network for half a life, so trying to deal with everything in typical INTJ fashion, alone, I just screwed everything up that wasn't related to logical thinking, which unfortunately, are most things in life. Yay, being INTJ is so so amazing. What a gift!
I hate being an INTJ. It's cringey when I see them postulate about how good isolation is, that it's this amazing quality to have. Even animals don't live alone, it ain't right. It just makes you develop idiosyncrasies that will further isolate you. And then time; the "great healer" cements these things, driving the nails into your precious logical coffin. And it's so "cute" that I can't read social cues; I probably didn't even realise when people actually cared or loved me in some way. I'm really spoiled with all these amazing gifts. Again, I'm sorry. Sorry for bothering you. Sorry for trying with this life. I'll slither back into my cell now, where I clearly belong
PS have a wonderful day. I hope you learned something. Use me as an example of how not to be or something...
Yes. Perhaps many INTJ's have this "elephant in the room" that we live with. Sometimes in denial of, or coping with, or reveling at having. It can be compartmentalized. IE: That's an aspect of me, but not all of me, not "me", not the "bigger me".
In another view, INTJ . . . much like a high IQ . . . a gift. . . and a curse. . . at once.