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This is a discussion on Ask an INTJ a question. within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Originally Posted by TheTraveller7 How do you come to terms with the fact that some (many) people hate you? The ...

  1. #25451

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTraveller7 View Post
    How do you come to terms with the fact that some (many) people hate you? The context is a conflicted environment. You need to take very unpopular decisions affecting other people and assert yourself against others. You hear people whispering about you and yes, you know that you are disliked, it's an objective fact. There are rumours about you killing kittens and similar.

    Those aren’t rumors
    Only online are we disliked
    75% of people irl have not the slightest clue to the Myers/Briggs types
    I honestly don’t know why we are so hated online
    A high majority of users online are not even INTJ
    Plus way too many people on PerC claim to know several INTJ’s Irl
    I doubt they even know one
    Eu_citzen thanked this post.

  2. #25452

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTraveller7 View Post
    How do you come to terms with the fact that some (many) people hate you? The context is a conflicted environment. You need to take very unpopular decisions affecting other people and assert yourself against others. You hear people whispering about you and yes, you know that you are disliked, it's an objective fact. There are rumours about you killing kittens and similar.
    I used to hate them in return. It made it easier to deal with rejection if I made it seem like I was rejecting them rather than them rejecting me. Now I know that's not a good approach, so I'm studying psychology and positive thinking as a way to improve my attitude. You're never going to be liked by everyone, particularly if you have to make unpopular decisions and stand by them, but there are ways to defuse the situation. One way is to let people know up front. Tell them ahead of time job cuts are coming (or whatever it is) and while you don't like it and feel bad for those people who are going to be let go, your boss/budget/astrological star chart or whatever doesn't leave you any option. Second, express regret to those people you have to let go, or whatever rule you have to enforce on. It helps to swallow bad news if the person delivering it at least feels some disquietude at delivering it. Third, express positivity about the person you're dumping on. For example, "Bubba Joe, I'm sorry I have to let you go like this, but you're a great person and I know you're going to bounce back from this and find an even better job in no time." By expressing positivity about the person, you reduce the amount he takes his firing or whatever personally. And by making him look forward to the future, you get him to forget about the present bad situation. Finally, work on lightening the mood. Treat the remainder to lunch or something. Take a stuffed toy kitten with you in a lunch bag and take it out and gnaw on it. Show up to work in a black cape and cowl. Get a big (6' tall) spoon and insist people call you Phil, the Prince of Insufficient Light. Tell people your number is 333... you're only half evil. Etc.

  3. #25453
    INTJ

    Just because of your avatar.

    tolkien2_320x120.jpg

  4. #25454

    Are you able to make a difference between sophists and philosophers ?

    Yes, I understand your point, intuition is not 100% of the time the best choice. But don't think that by avoiding it you are always right. You just decided how you were built.

    Devaluation, criticism and irony don't mean originality, it means to persecute.

    Cheers !

  5. #25455

    Quote Originally Posted by xwsmithx View Post
    I used to hate them in return. It made it easier to deal with rejection if I made it seem like I was rejecting them rather than them rejecting me. Now I know that's not a good approach, so I'm studying psychology and positive thinking as a way to improve my attitude. You're never going to be liked by everyone, particularly if you have to make unpopular decisions and stand by them, but there are ways to defuse the situation. One way is to let people know up front. Tell them ahead of time job cuts are coming (or whatever it is) and while you don't like it and feel bad for those people who are going to be let go, your boss/budget/astrological star chart or whatever doesn't leave you any option. Second, express regret to those people you have to let go, or whatever rule you have to enforce on. It helps to swallow bad news if the person delivering it at least feels some disquietude at delivering it. Third, express positivity about the person you're dumping on. For example, "Bubba Joe, I'm sorry I have to let you go like this, but you're a great person and I know you're going to bounce back from this and find an even better job in no time." By expressing positivity about the person, you reduce the amount he takes his firing or whatever personally. And by making him look forward to the future, you get him to forget about the present bad situation. Finally, work on lightening the mood. Treat the remainder to lunch or something. Take a stuffed toy kitten with you in a lunch bag and take it out and gnaw on it. Show up to work in a black cape and cowl. Get a big (6' tall) spoon and insist people call you Phil, the Prince of Insufficient Light. Tell people your number is 333... you're only half evil. Etc.
    Thanks, it's not about letting anyone go, at least not at this point and not in many cases. It's about trying to change processes which have always been like that and evaluating people.

  6. #25456

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTraveller7 View Post
    It's about trying to change processes which have always been like that and evaluating people.
    i took a contract like that and then discovered they didn't want to actually change. not only didn't want to, had reams of opinion about how useless my own opinions were. there's scattered references to it throughout the conversation thread. it was nine months of a peculiarly grinding kind of hell and, yeah, constant awareness that i was not wanted or liked; they didn't make much of a secret of it.

    ultimately i did quit, but for the duration of the project they hired me to work on, i just kept trudging. couldn't afford to quit, didn't want to quit, one of the hardest phases of my entire working life. knowing the price of relief was too high to pay was one of the things that kept me in it, actually.

    and i kept trudging by telling myself over and over: this is a bad thing already. now don't make it worse. i focused most of my mind on the aspects of having that job that were bringing value for me. they happened to be all entirely outside the working hours, but they still count. having money. the bike commute. i also used the converstions thread to report the more surreal parts of their dynamic. captain scudge. the baby boiler. weird eddie lurking in the lobby.

    pre-ultimately, they did eventually get used to me. i never liked them, never felt right or looked forward to going to work, and ultimately-ultimately as i mentioned, yes i did quit. but that long hardest period of just making myself act as if i wasn't noticing the unpopularity eventually did wear me a groove of i dunno, acceptance or minimal credibility or something like that. i feel for you.
    Green Girl, brightflashes, Squirt and 3 others thanked this post.

  7. #25457
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTraveller7 View Post
    Thanks, it's not about letting anyone go, at least not at this point and not in many cases. It's about trying to change processes which have always been like that and evaluating people.
    I have never been in that role, but I have had jobs where my co-workers were resentful and suspicious. It was not fun. I knew that if I was hostile back, it would just make things worse. I dealt with it by pretending not to notice their hostility. Most of the time I just focused on my job, and tried to be professional. I also acted friendly and glad to see them, even though inside I was not happy. I figured this was the only workable strategy. It is hard to be rude to someone who never notices and seems happy to see you. This worked pretty well, and the hostility lessened. A few actually became quite friendly toward me.
    lilysocks, EyesOpen, brightflashes and 2 others thanked this post.

  8. #25458

    Quote Originally Posted by lilysocks View Post
    i took a contract like that and then discovered they didn't want to actually change. not only didn't want to, had reams of opinion about how useless my own opinions were. there's scattered references to it throughout the conversation thread. it was nine months of a peculiarly grinding kind of hell and, yeah, constant awareness that i was not wanted or liked; they didn't make much of a secret of it.

    ultimately i did quit, but for the duration of the project they hired me to work on, i just kept trudging. couldn't afford to quit, didn't want to quit, one of the hardest phases of my entire working life. knowing the price of relief was too high to pay was one of the things that kept me in it, actually.

    and i kept trudging by telling myself over and over: this is a bad thing already. now don't make it worse. i focused most of my mind on the aspects of having that job that were bringing value for me. they happened to be all entirely outside the working hours, but they still count. having money. the bike commute. i also used the converstions thread to report the more surreal parts of their dynamic. captain scudge. the baby boiler. weird eddie lurking in the lobby.

    pre-ultimately, they did eventually get used to me. i never liked them, never felt right or looked forward to going to work, and ultimately-ultimately as i mentioned, yes i did quit. but that long hardest period of just making myself act as if i wasn't noticing the unpopularity eventually did wear me a groove of i dunno, acceptance or minimal credibility or something like that. i feel for you.
    I wasn't a lawyer long but that's kind of how I felt as a lawyer. People would come to me looking for advice but then wouldn't take the advice I gave and did what they wanted anyway. So why did you come to me?
    lilysocks thanked this post.

  9. #25459

    Another question for you guys based around a scenario.

    So you're working away on a project in work as part of a team. Everyone on the team is fine - you have no issues with them. For reasons outwith the team's control, information required to start the project was late being presented to you. As a result, you were all a few weeks late starting.

    The completion date however has not been moved forward and it is becoming clear that neither you, or the rest of the team, are going to meet the deadline, but the project manager refuses to accept this.

    Do you:
    1. Adopt the attitude of "well tough shit, it'll be completed when it's completed - I'm not rushing this and chancing making mistakes" and crack on (or something similar to this effect).

    2. Work faster, potentially getting stressed about it, despite the futility of it (or again something to this effect).

    Other answers welcome too.

    Cheers.

  10. #25460

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTraveller7 View Post
    How do you come to terms with the fact that some (many) people hate you? The context is a conflicted environment. You need to take very unpopular decisions affecting other people and assert yourself against others. You hear people whispering about you and yes, you know that you are disliked, it's an objective fact. There are rumours about you killing kittens and similar.
    People hate me? What jerks! I sincerely don't care at all what most of the population thinks about me. I cared when I was younger, but I don't care anymore. It would sting forever if I found out one of my close friends decided they hated me. I don't let people in; it's just too much energy to maintain friendships, so if either of my closest friends or my siblings turned on me, I'd be so confused and unhappy about it.

    If anyone accused me of killing kittens I'd probably cry. That's touching my moral character. I would insist that the person provide proof and ask them point-blank why they were lying about me. I would probably scold them as well.

    I have two voices: normal me and then "business me". I talk in "normal me" voice every single time UNLESS people aren't listening. If it's important that they hear me and know that I mean business and no bs, I'd just project my voice, talk louder, and be firm the way I am with my children when I explain to them why they can't do some totally irrational thing.

    I really wish you luck here. I usually hold unpopular opinions and I think that my comfortability with it (by acknowledging it) helps others feel more comfortable.
    Green Girl thanked this post.


     

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