[INTJ] Relation to Asperger's and possible confusion there of - Page 11

Relation to Asperger's and possible confusion there of

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This is a discussion on Relation to Asperger's and possible confusion there of within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Interesting. I scored a 31. Never occurred to me to take the test until I saw this post, and not ...

  1. #101
    Unknown Personality

    Interesting. I scored a 31. Never occurred to me to take the test until I saw this post, and not sure if it's an especially useful screening tool for a 40-year-old, but it might help me understand some things about my childhood and growing up.

    FWIW, I am not 100% sure I identify as INTJ, but am leaning that way. I haven't read all 10 pages of this thread (!!), but curious to see others' results.
    Monkey Fritz thanked this post.

  2. #102
    Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by Tahlia View Post
    ..but my INTJ ex husband..
    Stop adding insult to injury :p

  3. #103
    Unknown Personality

    Recently I realized that I have Aspergers and started reading WrongPlanet forum. There is a poll "What Is Your Myers-Brigs Personality Type?". Out of 1470 people, 501 are INTJ. Second are INTPs with 263.

    Out of 1470 Aspies:
    501 INTJ
    263 INTP
    214 ISTJ
    138 INFP
    131 INFJ
    69 ISTP
    46 ISFJ
    29 ISFP
    21 ENFP
    14 ENTP
    14 ENFJ
    11 ENTJ
    5 ESFJ
    5 ESTJ
    5 ESTP
    4 ESFP

    Interesting? I wonder if "internet INTJ culture" is actually an Asperger's culture.
    Monkey Fritz, luemb, treschanna and 14 others thanked this post.

  4. #104
    Unknown Personality

    Quote Originally Posted by pianoteachermom View Post
    Interesting. I scored a 31. Never occurred to me to take the test until I saw this post, and not sure if it's an especially useful screening tool for a 40-year-old, but it might help me understand some things about my childhood and growing up.

    FWIW, I am not 100% sure I identify as INTJ, but am leaning that way. I haven't read all 10 pages of this thread (!!), but curious to see others' results.
    I am not sure if you asked for this, I thought I will give you some links to check if you are interested.
    What helped me to realize I have Asperger's:
    help4aspergers.com - List of Female Asperger traits
    Day 62: Females with Asperger’s Syndrome (Non-Official) Checklist « Everyday Asperger's
    Aspergers Traits (Women, Females, Girls) « Everyday Asperger's
    Thirty-Seven: 10 Myths About Females With Asperger’s Syndrome « Everyday Asperger's
    Paradigm, pianoteachermom and Therese C thanked this post.

  5. #105
    Unknown

    I wonder if the Aspergers culture is actually an introverted culture. I'm more inclined to trust the MBTI than the Aspergers classification thing. And If Aspergers is a real syndrome, it is probably misdiagnosed quite frequently. Having a hard time relating.. preferring to read books instead of going to a party... bad a small talk.. carefully planning activities.. BIG Friggin' deal!!!!!!!!

  6. #106
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by crferguson View Post
    I wonder if the Aspergers culture is actually an introverted culture. I'm more inclined to trust the MBTI than the Aspergers classification thing. And If Aspergers is a real syndrome, it is probably misdiagnosed quite frequently. Having a hard time relating.. preferring to read books instead of going to a party... bad a small talk.. carefully planning activities.. BIG Friggin' deal!!!!!!!!
    Aspergers is not a culture, it is a syndrome, which is a set of several clinically observable characteristics.

    The characteristics are not introversion or careful planning, but rather substantial difficulties in social interaction, plus restricted or repetitive patterns of behavior. These behaviors lead to unnatural limitations in daily life for someone with Aspergers.

    Introversion and careful planning are not characteristics of Aspergers, per se, but they do often co-exist. The screening tools are imperfect and motivation for diagnosis are myriad. But the set of characteristics existing in these individuals is very real.
    Monkey Fritz thanked this post.

  7. #107
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey Fritz View Post
    This has been thrown around before, but I want to bring it back up for discussion.

    Some have said that some people who type as INTJ might actually have mild to moderate Asperger's and be unaware of it. After all many disorders work on a bell curve, only if one is beyond a certain point where it interferes with daily life is it truly classified as a disorder.

    The inverse may also be true, that some INTJs may self diagnose with Asperger's syndrome, or even be professionally diagnosed. As we all know there is no professional conformity among psychiatrists, as each is left up to their own devices once proving a grasp of the fundamental theories.

    I considered the possibility prior to learning about MBTI and put the consideration aside until such time as I better understood both. Within Jungian theory there is the suggestion that mental disorders can be related to type. Some disorders could be formed by one type being forced to conform to the parameters of another, which would be disorders that are learned and thus can be treated. Other disorders may in fact be the extreme of the bell curve, if not to one type than one particular function pair.

    As it is suggested that being closer to neutral is the healthiest state of being, that each type should seek to improve their lower functions (not something I endorse), one could see the XXXX type as being the fifth dimensional center, with each of the sixteen types branching off as a bell curve, the extreme of each curve being one particular type of disorder. Disorders in the autistic range, such as Asperger's, are considered inborn traits that cannot be changed. There are no treatments for Asperger's, it is believed to be immutable. An individual can, at best, learn to live with their limitations.

    Most likely, in my view, these disorder bell curves are related to specific cognitive functions, not whole types. I could not find any reference to Asperger's being applied to any sensor types, for example, though lots of documentation suggests a high percentage of "Aspies", as they prefer to call themselves, are INTJ. The only other type I saw referenced was INTP. This information may be incomplete, but it appears to be an NT related disorder. Of course the disorder itself may impact the results of personality tests, but further reading certainly does imply Aspies are generally NTs, in action and life as well as testing.

    Asperger's, and other autism spectrum disorders, are thought to be a result of a certain part/parts of the brain that have taken too much control, vastly improving some areas of cognitive function, while drastically damaging others. If cognitive function theory has any grounds in neuroscience (as the two cannot exist separate from each other, just no unified theory/explanation has yet been put forward) than one can easily see a possible correlation between cognitive function and a cognitive disorder.

    As it stands, to me, Asperger's Syndrom seems to be the very extreme of what it is to be an INTJ, to a truly unhealthy and life damaging degree. (As if being an INTJ isn't life damaging enough)

    Wired 9.12: Take The AQ Test
    Eighty percent of those diagnosed with autism or a related disorder scored 32 or higher. The test is not a means for making a diagnosis, however, and many who score above 32 and even meet the diagnostic criteria for mild autism or Asperger's report no difficulty functioning in their everyday lives.

    I scored a 29, I am curious what anyone else might score. The test is by no means conclusive. People with Asperger's commonly have higher than average intelligence, many are able to live productive lives because said intelligence affords them the ability to "conform" and mask many of their inabilities through a complex understanding of how other peoples emotions "should work", rather than actually understanding the emotions.

    This is what really gets me, as I have a long list, a very very long list of incidents in my life that to this day I have no clue why people reacted the way they do. To a degree beyond what should be "normal" even for an INTJ. When it comes to other peoples emotions, there is nothing. Just a long list of algorithms based on knowledge and past experience. Not an actual understanding of the emotional impact of the things I say and do. This is "INTJ like" but significantly beyond what should be normal. Studying MBTI, though ofering hope at first, has not deterred me from the consideration that I may have mild Asperger's.

    History has shown that, not only will I somehow manage to hurt every person I know, but I will have no idea how I managed to do it.

    So, I know made quite a lot of points there, lol, thoughts?
    I think the condition and the personality type can be mutually exclusive.
    Aspergers makes it difficult or impossible to interact "normally" with others. It is not necessarily that they don't want to, they are just unable to develop proper social skills or interpret body language without great effort.
    The INTJ personality type or any of the more introverted types usually prefer to not interact (at all or simply not as much as others), but they are usually capable of doing so to a somewhat normal level just like everyone else if they wanted to. *Like some people have indicated in comments, it may be because we can interpret these signals/patterns/norms that we decide not to get involved, because we find the average social interaction distasteful or unsatisfying compared to something else we could be doing.

    And if it's true that we actually become physically/mentally tired from social over-stimulation, naturally we would decrease the frequency of our social outings.

    Edit: I scored 29. Though I have to say some of the questions were vague.

  8. #108

    Quote Originally Posted by MissBlossom View Post
    34. This whole situation makes me want to get a PhD in Psychology and start an awareness campaign of INTx personality. People should stop labeling different people and start appreciating their talents and insights.
    I know this is a bit necro, but thanks for this post. I'm (more or less) seriously thinking of becoming an Educational Psychologist one day just because this whole business of misdiagnosis annoys me so much.
    I work with kids with ASD and many of them are as un-INT-ish as anyone can possibly be.
    But it's not only INTXs that often get lumped together with Aspies by lay people. I've got an ISFJ colleague whose teachers tried to get her diagnosed just because she was quiet. LOL, she's the stereotype of a nice person and she talks about her friends all the time. It's like her only reason to exist are her friends. LOL LOL LOL

  9. #109
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Funny thing about this thread.

    when I was a kid, apparently my parents took me to the doctor, and the doctor said I may have had aspergers, and would always be terrible at sports and social interactions. My dad tells me he wanted to punch the doctor in the face.

    I was, in fact, excellent at sports, but still quite socially awkward.

  10. #110

    Hum,..... I just read those lists about females with Asperger's and the symptoms remind me a lot of myself and and the female INTPs I know.
    I can relate to lots of the symptoms, but the strange thing is that I've only been able to relate to those symptoms since I started working in a crouded place with lots of colleagues who chat and shout all the time. Also, I live in a foreign country with different social norms than my home country, which doesn't help either. When I remember what I used to be like before I started working at this place, I don't think I would have related to the symptoms back then. Weird isn't it? I must be in a continuous state of social over-stimulation.


     
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