[INTJ] Functions and neurology. The reasons behind functional preferences. A question.

Functions and neurology. The reasons behind functional preferences. A question.

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This is a discussion on Functions and neurology. The reasons behind functional preferences. A question. within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; I am trying to find out why certain people prefer using certain functions and not others. My hypothesis so far ...

  1. #1
    ENTP - The Visionaries


    Functions and neurology. The reasons behind functional preferences. A question.

    I am trying to find out why certain people prefer using certain functions and not others.

    My hypothesis so far is that somehow sometime in a person's development the brain develops a "liking" for a certain function by stimulation the Brain Reward Pathways whenever said function is used. Thus an individual will receive pleasure/reward when using the function.

    What is worrying me though, and why I seek your opinion, is that:

    1. I am not a neurologist.
    2. My Si (4th function) appears to give me the believe people should enjoy their every activity and that is how they function the best.

    Thus I am worried I can't achieve objectivity and clarity through Ti, which tends to rationalize my irrational Si believes.

    I would be very grateful for a link to such a research.

    Thank you



  2. #2
    INTJ - The Scientists

    I have no idea but I'm posting because I don't want this thread to get lost before someone knowledgeable can answer the question.

  3. #3
    ENTP - The Visionaries


    Thank you.

    My search so far has not produced any results. I am surprised there is no widely available research on the neurological and biological side of the MBTI.

    bearing in mind I came across the most absurd topics being researched and funding spent on absolute stupidity ...
    Quite disappointing.

    If sexual preferences seem to have a "material" representation in the brain and combining this with the way the brain "learns" by rearranging randomly and then falling into the most efficient structure, I don't see a reason the functions not to have a material representation in the brain.

    Please help

  4. #4
    INTP - The Thinkers

    Istbkleta thanked this post.

  5. #5
    INTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    My hypothesis so far is that somehow sometime in a person's development the brain develops a "liking" for a certain function by stimulation the Brain Reward Pathways whenever said function is used. Thus an individual will receive pleasure/reward when using the function.
    It's not a hypothesis; to say that cognitive functions formation is independent of reward circuitry is utterly absurd. Reward circuitry in conjunction with LTP/LTD (long-tern potentiation/depression; in charge of association) has everything to do with the formation dominant cognitive functions.

    Brain is like a river valley; if water flows in a certain way, it is more likely that water will flow again in the same way (the river bottom is more eroded/deepened.); it is, thus, likely that water will always flow like that. What reward circuitry does is the controlling of the water flow according to both short-them/long-term favorability (known as pain/pleasure), efficiently pruning away the unfavorable flows.
    Istbkleta thanked this post.

  6. #6
    ENTP - The Visionaries


    Quote Originally Posted by Nox View Post
    It's not a hypothesis; to say that cognitive functions formation is independent of reward circuitry is utterly absurd. Reward circuitry in conjunction with LTP/LTD (long-tern potentiation/depression; in charge of association) has everything to do with the formation dominant cognitive functions.
    I need the specific research/study that backs this up through empirical evidence, that goes beyond theory

  7. #7
    INTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    I need the specific research/study that backs this up through empirical evidence, that goes beyond theory
    From what I've learned a month ago (Neurobiology, Spring 10), I've never seen studies linking cognitive functions to reward circuitry because the scope difference between neurobiology and psychology is still significantly large. If you're in luck, I'm sure you can find a paper on it, but I doubt you'll find one. Circuitry to behavioral pattern is still a huge gap.

    Anyway, if you need studies with empirical data, why don't you search it first?
    These days, hunting papers only takes an hour or two.
    [Edit: Oh, you did. MBTI is human-oriented; a hard animal to get your hands on for lab purposes (You can't just sever someone's amygdala for research.). It's not surprising that you didn't find one.]
    Istbkleta thanked this post.

  8. #8
    ENTP - The Visionaries


    @Nox

    Isn't it possible to verify the activation of the reward pathways without invasive surgery?
    I am certain there is - blood flow, neural activity.

    I have searched using google, but maybe I am not using the correct search terms. If you can suggest anything, I'd appreciate it.
    Without such research, the MBTI kind of "hangs in the air" regarding the functions. It feels too much like "science" than science.

    I have been thinking about using a qualitative interview-type study, but that feels like a half-assed way of speculating on already existing speculations. There must be research on triggers in humans of the BRP! I am very frustrated.

    If I can get my hands on something like that, I can at least support the idea certain terms like "happy", "content" and "right thing to do" are the subjects way of experiencing and verbalizing the activation of the BRP. From there I can now safely use the interview-type study to support or reject any function-related hypothesis I come up with :)

    This for example made me happy and I put the smiley face. I'd say my Ti was engaged and satisfied by that mental image and my BRP were activated, giving me a reward experienced as "happiness".

    I need that research!

  9. #9
    INTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    @Nox Isn't it possible to verify the activation of the reward pathways without invasive surgery?
    I am certain there is - blood flow, neural activity.
    Try looking into fMRI studies for the communications between general sectors in the brain. Our current technology is not efficient enough to correlate a set of specific circuitry (neuron-to-neuron scope)

    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    Without such research, the MBTI kind of "hangs in the air" regarding the functions. It feels too much like "science" than science.
    MBTI is qualitative rather than quantitative. (intensive on case studies and statistical inference.)
    It is a classification system of humans according to their behavioral tendencies (With indicators such as sociability & abstraction & detachment & goal-orientation).

    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    I have been thinking about using a qualitative interview-type study, but that feels like a half-assed way of speculating on already existing speculations. There must be research on triggers in humans of the BRP! I am very frustrated.

    If I can get my hands on something like that, I can at least support the idea certain terms like "happy", "content" and "right thing to do" are the subjects way of experiencing and verbalizing the activation of the BRP. From there I can now safely use the interview-type study to support or reject any function-related hypothesis I come up with :)

    This for example made me happy and I put the smiley face. I'd say my Ti was engaged and satisfied by that mental image and my BRP were activated, giving me a reward experienced as "happiness".

    I need that research!
    Try using classical conditioning on young kids (Which is very hard to do, not many parents like their kids being test subjects). For example, reward the kids for Ti tendencies for extended period of time. Maybe a decade later, you can see how subjects' Ti-levels are higher/lower than the not-affected sample of the general population (control). By showing the difference in Ti tendencies, you are empirically showing the causation relation: "Rewarding Ti tendency causes kids to have higher/lower Ti function." Templatize that to "Rewarding a cognitive function causes kids to score higher/lower on that cognitive function results."

    Which can easily translate to: "Reward circuitry affects formation of cognitive functions."
    (Which is already intuitively "obvious," since MBTI is known to have 40%~60% heritability. Some of that 40%~60% must come from parental influence which includes reward-based training.)

    Just a thought.
    Istbkleta thanked this post.

  10. #10
    ENTP - The Visionaries


    @Nox

    Thank you so much. I am now clear as to what does and does not exist as a possibility.

    I will check for already existing classical conditioning experiments, although they probably don't exist. Sometimes I wish studying humans was better developed than relying on social "science". Bummer.

    The futility of our attempts to achieve objectivity when studying ourselves is giving me a headache right now.

    If anybody sees this thread and believes they have useful information/suggestion/ideas, please post.


     
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