This is a discussion on INTJs and morality within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Originally Posted by lilysocks i beg to differ. obviously it has a lot to do with where he's willing to ...
this seems like a pretty odd thread to me. i'm not sure what it's really about . . . and also really confused about the op's (apparent?) personal definitions of 'objective' and 'subjective'.
i'm going to say though that if it's possible to be insulted by something when one can't work out what the something is trying to say, then i'm insulted. if i've got this right, you've got a friend not all of whose views you agree with, and somehow through the magic of function-attribution (? i think? idek what means this fe polr you name), this becomes a 'blind spot' that 'intjs' as a population all have as well.
i think you need to widen your data pool if nothing else, because to me that's just silly. it's like saying you know one intj who paints his toenails, therefore inferior se, therefore intj men are tranvestites.
Although not stated in the original post, it was there if you rooted around for it.This is the purpose of this thread, to discuss what INTJs find moral
On the other hand, I'm stuck with objective vs. subjective morality. Objective morality just seems... nonexistent to me. Perhaps the OP could clarify for us?
Even in a specific point in time, there are different societies with distinct morals.
All it takes to change people's mindset is one person, with enough skill, enough luck and enough time.
to me, ethics is anything that is independent of how much i like or don't like someone. it's the set of rules that transcend personal considerations. i wouldn't steal from you if i hated your guts. i wouldn't tolerate you stealing from me if i loved you to bits.
anything that can vary depending on relationship or preferences is not in that category by definition.
Last edited by lilysocks; 07-09-2015 at 11:01 PM.
I'm a bit confused by your original post, in that you don't make it clear what your conclusion is. I'm assuming that you are saying that INTJs (and ISTJs respectively) don't observe a set of objective moral rules?
I would just like to chime in with a sociological perspective in order to explain why I myself do not subscribe to such a set of rules. In my mind, there is no such thing as objective morality. The terms "good" and "bad" are assigned to different actions and behaviours by the governing bodies of society. These words do not infact respresent anything other than the meanings that we as a society assign to them. Therefore, morality is subjective as it is created and re-interpreted on the basis of human beings' subjective feelings and beliefs.
However, once these social rules are defined, they are adopted as what we superficially believe is objective. I don't believe that an INTJ behaves in a way that contrasts societies expectations because they have a moral blind spot (although some might). It's because they create their own definitions and boundaries to base their actions off of. A lot of my miscommunication or disagreement with Fe users occurs because they have expectations which I find pointless. An example of this is that in the school cafeteria I will not walk up to every person I know just to let them know I'm aware of their presence. It would be a waste of time - if I have something to say I will talk to them another time. I don't want to interrupt their current conversation. Most of my Fe friends say that it would be rude to not go talk to them.
Regarding my own personal morality, I have a very very strong set of morals that I have defined myself, and which I adhere to. I look for people with similar morals to pursue relationships and friendships with because if we are not similar it is difficult for me to respect someone. For what it's worth, I don't find cheating acceptable in any situation. Not only has it happened to me, but I have been presented with the opportunity to do it myself many times. I was able to refuse even if that was what I desired emotionally because trying to make my relationship work was a priority. This is the standard I uphold my partners to, and since I have experienced it I know it is not an unreasonable request. In your situation, your INTJ probably doesn't have the same interpretation of relationships as you do, they may not be someone who values monogamy all that much and it is important to define things like this before engaging in discussion about it.
Yes, you can intellectualise it all you want, but there is such a thing as objective ethics. Just like there is such a thing as objective logic.
If you cheat on someone that is objectively unethical. It might not be the end of it, but the act itself is objectively wrong if you're still together. No matter what the motivations and context and circumstances surrounding it. The act itself is wrong if you're still with the person.
Last edited by Freeflowingthoughts; 07-10-2015 at 02:07 AM.
There's not much I want to discuss about with you at this point.