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This is a discussion on Excerpts from everyday conversation within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; @ Results Actually, other apprentice has a point...

  1. #1121
    INTJ - The Scientists

    @Results
    Actually, other apprentice has a point
    yet another intj and Alles_Paletti thanked this post.

  2. #1122

    Quote Originally Posted by Results View Post
    super bugs immune to regular cleaning methods and antibiotics, but when do you realistically find them outside of a hospital?
    guy i work with says he did a project in university collecting swabs off various household surfaces and analysing them for their bacteria content. just for fun, sez he. and i wouldn't believe it out of a lot of people, but i would believe it from him.

    anyway. verdict? "tops of doors. we found stuff up there . . . no, seriously. we sent it to some lab or other. really really really bad stuff. like, kill you dead before you can sneeze kind of stuff."

    it's not very james bond, is it. wanna kill someone? just wipe your hand along the top of some door just before you shake theirs.

  3. #1123
    INTJ - The Scientists

    That's a completely fair point to be honest, the other apprentice is a lazy shit who doesn't give two shits. He empties buckets full of water after he's cleaned the floor into the sink with me yelling at him, doesn't use any chemicals to clean our dish-washing area when he should and cleans his section maybe once a month, luckily I'm on there once a week to drag his ass along while we throw away the food he prepared weeks before away because it's mouldy.

    I sanitize and clean the shit out of all my fridges, benches, oven and the top of everything regularly. One Sunday he said "Why are you cleaning under your containers again, you did that last week." So basically, our second year apprentice is a disgusting, feral piece of shit who had the head chef screaming at him to shut up today while everything I had to do was done, cleaning finished and optionally started to help the others,

  4. #1124

    Me: What's that?
    ISTJ: Purslane.
    Me: Hmm... Delicious!
    ISTJ: I found it in the backyard... Lucky me!
    Me: You know what? I have a stinging nettle in my balcony. I have no idea how the seeds land in there but it's growing quite good. I know it's somewhat edible. The thing is, I don't know how to properly neutralize the histamine before cooking it.
    ISTJ: Just eat it.
    Me: What?
    ISTJ: We are always picking them from the hills to use on salads.
    Me: But...
    ISTJ: Don't be a sissy!
    Me:
    braided pain and orni thanked this post.

  5. #1125
    INFJ

    Real conversation with my INFP friend:

    She: So, you didn't spend nothing about your salary yet?
    Me: Erm, no. Why?
    She: I don't know, to shopping or something.
    Me: I don't usually go out that much and now, you know...I'm not going out at all...
    She: You're so antisocial.
    Me: Well...
    Last edited by Lemxn; 02-11-2014 at 06:55 PM.
    sherkanner and iceblock thanked this post.

  6. #1126

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemxn View Post
    You're so antisocial.
    I prefer to say society is so anti-me.
    sherkanner, braided pain, neveragain and 9 others thanked this post.

  7. #1127

    i just wrote this to my sister. yeah, it's not a screenplay-ready dialogue, but i've had enough of the cavernous dev lead for the day. i'm not picking the words out of this narrative to make a him/me out of it.

    spent half the day with the cavernous dev lead, feels like. lordy lord. i KNEW cdl was going to put us all through all of this, two weeks ago. it's kind of a helpless feeling, when you see a train coming at you and you're tied to the tracks AND you know that the damned track is circular. someone out there changed the rules back again.

    now, if you find a bug in our 'team' site where the current work's being done, you have to assign it to your own team even if your team never touched that functionality, knows nothing about it, and you finding it had nothing to do with any stories you're all working on. used to be we could give the stuff that wasn't directly related to sprint work to some triage person, but no more.


    so now the protocol goes: a) if you can reproduce it on the 'integration' site, you're allowed to assign it to that triage dude mentioned above. b) if you can't, then it goes to your team. and c) there's only one me, and there's four of them. so i'm not spending double the time trying to reproduce issues which aren't even about my own bloody work, in order to leave the developers yet more free time in which to widen the qa-dev gap in the sprint.


    so anyway. you assign it to your dev lead. your DEV LEAD, or someone designated by him, 'investigates' in order to try and find out what code is broken, and then further from that, which team did the breaking of it.


    which means that now the dev lead in every team is going to be kept busy investigating and triaging bugs he has nothing to do with, AND if he tracks it down to a source and a guilty team, then he has to 'negotiate' with the dev lead of that other team to have the other team agree that the problem is theirs and 'take' it from him. no one dev lead has any more authority over any other dev lead than any other dev lead has over him. all of which means exactly what any thinking person could foresee it meaning.


    the cdl has already begun that resenting process. my god. cdl resents the whole structure of it on some high-minded slavic principle or other, and he acts like none of the rest of us resents it as well. and like we haven't all already heard his arias and his addresses-to-the-court on the grand high principles of the subject, either. we've heard them because this whole rule set about what to do with this kind of bug bangs back and forth like an outhouse door. i think it's on its third cycle right now since i first got there.


    so friday i logged a bug. it's a good one, nice fat juicy one. and i found it in the vanilla functionality which we will be looking at to make sure it fits in with one of our features, next sprint. i also found it by looking at the data the vanilla stuff generated through the lens of 'our' feature, which we came out with last year.


    so i log the bug. and oh boy, here we go.


    dev 2 picks the bug up out of the queue and displays it to cdl. cdl doesn't complain precisely, but he splits hairs. he's 'not convinced' that the issue is a real issue (it fucking is! 215% is not a valid percentage value on any planet). once reluctantly convinced about that, he's now not convinced that the issue is 'ours'. i explain yet again that neither am i, but here's how the new process goes. cdl now wants to stop everything and hold a village kwela on whether or not this is the 'right' thing to do. i agree, all mild-like that i don't like it any better than him, but he stops me right there, his eyes now flashing with offended serbian honour. it's not about what he LIKES, he tells me, it's about what is RIGHT. do i agree, or do i not, that this whole process makes just-no-sense.


    so i sigh. and i say that what i think makes no difference at all since it's the process etc, but for what it's worth no, i think it's as stupid as mud. he's now puzzled, or maybe thwarted, because i've agreed with him and he feels vaguely cheated out of the great stream of invective that he had stored up. there's a pause, while i tell myself i'm getting put-near a dollar a minute for this and i might as well spend it humouring him as i could doing something useful. he sort of works his lips around for a while, while the poor captive dev 2 and i sit and wait. i slide my eyes back to my work and ponder the idea of letting him know that i agree in theory, but really i'd prefer to get on with that work over sitting around shooting the purely-theoretical shit about just how shitty it is. which is all this discussion now is.


    he catches my slithering eyes and he's off again. now he's determined to deal with this bug by proving its non-existence by technical means. do i agree, he demands, that this bug has nothing to do with our team? i disagree. his mouth comes open. it's our feature, i tell him, because it is. he grows kind. no-no, i misunderstood; he means do i agree that our team did not introduce this new bug? no, i say. he rears back. i can't say that, i say. i don't know what's causing the bug. but you tested it, he tells me, and i say yeah?


    now he's angry. i say i tested it, cdl, but i'm not gonna sit here and tell you i couldn't have missed something like that. he moves into angry-ultimatum mode. if i signed off on the test task, he tells me, to him that means that i tested it. thoroughly. and he has my assurance there are No Bugs In The Code. that's what my sign-off should mean. end of story. and now i come telling him . . . and now i'm angry, but 'shove it' is all that comes to the front of my mind. i try repeating my previous line.


    dev 2's getting bored. and irritated. there's now a pause before the next round. cdl is now thwarted again, still frustrated, but subsiding into grumbling i'm-gonna-write-a-letter-ish mode. since he's quit yelling, i throw him the clarification that i'm with him insofar as i don't believe that the issue was introduced by our team, but i'm damned if i'll say so until it's been proved. which brings us back to square one, because who's gonna investigate it? our team. we've just spent 47 minutes on a conversation that's been had more than one time before.

    cdl leaves, because now he's going to 'take this matter' of teams triaging bugs found by their own testers off to the next level up. i tell him cordially that he'll be speaking the thoughts of the whole gang of us, and wish him godspeed. and so off he goes. leaving me and dev 2 to get on with our lives.



    dev 2 gives me this long, slow inexplicable look, somewhere between blank and disgust. 'i don't understand why he gets like this.'
    TrippedOnReality, Alles_Paletti and Dabbling thanked this post.

  8. #1128

    Quote Originally Posted by lilysocks View Post
    i just wrote this to my sister. yeah, it's not a screenplay-ready dialogue, but i've had enough of the cavernous dev lead for the day. i'm not picking the words out of this narrative to make a him/me out of it.

    spent half the day with the cavernous dev lead, feels like. lordy lord. i KNEW cdl was going to put us all through all of this, two weeks ago. it's kind of a helpless feeling, when you see a train coming at you and you're tied to the tracks AND you know that the damned track is circular. someone out there changed the rules back again.

    now, if you find a bug in our 'team' site where the current work's being done, you have to assign it to your own team even if your team never touched that functionality, knows nothing about it, and you finding it had nothing to do with any stories you're all working on. used to be we could give the stuff that wasn't directly related to sprint work to some triage person, but no more.


    so now the protocol goes: a) if you can reproduce it on the 'integration' site, you're allowed to assign it to that triage dude mentioned above. b) if you can't, then it goes to your team. and c) there's only one me, and there's four of them. so i'm not spending double the time trying to reproduce issues which aren't even about my own bloody work, in order to leave the developers yet more free time in which to widen the qa-dev gap in the sprint.


    so anyway. you assign it to your dev lead. your DEV LEAD, or someone designated by him, 'investigates' in order to try and find out what code is broken, and then further from that, which team did the breaking of it.


    which means that now the dev lead in every team is going to be kept busy investigating and triaging bugs he has nothing to do with, AND if he tracks it down to a source and a guilty team, then he has to 'negotiate' with the dev lead of that other team to have the other team agree that the problem is theirs and 'take' it from him. no one dev lead has any more authority over any other dev lead than any other dev lead has over him. all of which means exactly what any thinking person could foresee it meaning.


    the cdl has already begun that resenting process. my god. cdl resents the whole structure of it on some high-minded slavic principle or other, and he acts like none of the rest of us resents it as well. and like we haven't all already heard his arias and his addresses-to-the-court on the grand high principles of the subject, either. we've heard them because this whole rule set about what to do with this kind of bug bangs back and forth like an outhouse door. i think it's on its third cycle right now since i first got there.


    so friday i logged a bug. it's a good one, nice fat juicy one. and i found it in the vanilla functionality which we will be looking at to make sure it fits in with one of our features, next sprint. i also found it by looking at the data the vanilla stuff generated through the lens of 'our' feature, which we came out with last year.


    so i log the bug. and oh boy, here we go.


    dev 2 picks the bug up out of the queue and displays it to cdl. cdl doesn't complain precisely, but he splits hairs. he's 'not convinced' that the issue is a real issue (it fucking is! 215% is not a valid percentage value on any planet). once reluctantly convinced about that, he's now not convinced that the issue is 'ours'. i explain yet again that neither am i, but here's how the new process goes. cdl now wants to stop everything and hold a village kwela on whether or not this is the 'right' thing to do. i agree, all mild-like that i don't like it any better than him, but he stops me right there, his eyes now flashing with offended serbian honour. it's not about what he LIKES, he tells me, it's about what is RIGHT. do i agree, or do i not, that this whole process makes just-no-sense.


    so i sigh. and i say that what i think makes no difference at all since it's the process etc, but for what it's worth no, i think it's as stupid as mud. he's now puzzled, or maybe thwarted, because i've agreed with him and he feels vaguely cheated out of the great stream of invective that he had stored up. there's a pause, while i tell myself i'm getting put-near a dollar a minute for this and i might as well spend it humouring him as i could doing something useful. he sort of works his lips around for a while, while the poor captive dev 2 and i sit and wait. i slide my eyes back to my work and ponder the idea of letting him know that i agree in theory, but really i'd prefer to get on with that work over sitting around shooting the purely-theoretical shit about just how shitty it is. which is all this discussion now is.


    he catches my slithering eyes and he's off again. now he's determined to deal with this bug by proving its non-existence by technical means. do i agree, he demands, that this bug has nothing to do with our team? i disagree. his mouth comes open. it's our feature, i tell him, because it is. he grows kind. no-no, i misunderstood; he means do i agree that our team did not introduce this new bug? no, i say. he rears back. i can't say that, i say. i don't know what's causing the bug. but you tested it, he tells me, and i say yeah?


    now he's angry. i say i tested it, cdl, but i'm not gonna sit here and tell you i couldn't have missed something like that. he moves into angry-ultimatum mode. if i signed off on the test task, he tells me, to him that means that i tested it. thoroughly. and he has my assurance there are No Bugs In The Code. that's what my sign-off should mean. end of story. and now i come telling him . . . and now i'm angry, but 'shove it' is all that comes to the front of my mind. i try repeating my previous line.


    dev 2's getting bored. and irritated. there's now a pause before the next round. cdl is now thwarted again, still frustrated, but subsiding into grumbling i'm-gonna-write-a-letter-ish mode. since he's quit yelling, i throw him the clarification that i'm with him insofar as i don't believe that the issue was introduced by our team, but i'm damned if i'll say so until it's been proved. which brings us back to square one, because who's gonna investigate it? our team. we've just spent 47 minutes on a conversation that's been had more than one time before.

    cdl leaves, because now he's going to 'take this matter' of teams triaging bugs found by their own testers off to the next level up. i tell him cordially that he'll be speaking the thoughts of the whole gang of us, and wish him godspeed. and so off he goes. leaving me and dev 2 to get on with our lives.



    dev 2 gives me this long, slow inexplicable look, somewhere between blank and disgust. 'i don't understand why he gets like this.'
    Boy o boy. Long but a good read.

    Reminds me of my old boss.

    He yells at people until they repeat the things he likes to hear.

    Took me a while to hold my ground with him effectively like you did with cdl. Kudos to you :)
    lilysocks thanked this post.

  9. #1129

    Quote Originally Posted by Alles_Paletti View Post
    Boy o boy. Long but a good read.

    Reminds me of my old boss.
    yeah, you gotta push back at this guy. i try to do it before i start getting really angry and go all emo myself, but it's mostly good for the story value.

    just told my programmer friend that the only virtue in such a retarded idea is maybe it'll keep the devs so busy lobbing bugs back and forth into each other's yards and squabbling about whose bug is whose, they won't have as much time to write any new crappy code. that way, us testers might be able to get some work done.
    Alles_Paletti thanked this post.

  10. #1130
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Pal: I really wanna buy a saxophone
    Me: Why don't you?
    Pal: I don't have the money for a saxophone...
    Me: So why don't you save it all? You're still living at home with parents covering your expenses and you have study grant, how about just saving up for a month or two?
    Pal: You don't understand...
    Me: guess not
    Pal: you tag along a buy some chocolate?
    Me: It's shitty weather outside... btw did you not just say that you couldn't afford that?
    Pal: Not a saxophone no, but I can afford a little bit of chocolate.
    Me: But you bought some yesterday...
    Pal: I buy it every other day man :D
    Me: Well there we go then
    Pal: what?
    Me: why your always short on cash...that's the reason
    Pal: what are you talking about?
    Me: you do know that the kilo price of chocolate bought in store is higher than pure gold right?
    Pal: wow I didn't know that
    Me: as I said, skip the sugar for two months and you'll be able to play again!
    Pal: Ah well... so you're tagging along then?
    Me: you really don't care, do you?
    Pal: of course I do! But I'll begin saving next week
    Me: You probably won't, right?
    Pal: Probably not...
    Me: ...
    Pal: ...
    Me: so please tell me again WHY the FUCK you're wasting my time with whining about being poor when you're fully aware of the reasons why? I don't get paid for this you know.
    Pal: Well duh :P you're my pal so you'll do it for free right? Besides, if I paid you, I wouldn't have money for either chocolate nor saxophone
    Me: *Sighing in frustration* I give up.
    Pal: :D wanna tag along then?
    Me: ...fine...
    Pal: you'll treat me right?
    Me: Yeah, sure. I'm in desperate need for energy right now
    Pal: Yay!...still don't understand why you're grumpy all of a sudden but let's go!
    Me: whatever man...whatever...
    sherkanner, luemb, Watercolourful and 2 others thanked this post.


     
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