[INTJ] Do you believe in intelligence being innate?

Do you believe in intelligence being innate?

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This is a discussion on Do you believe in intelligence being innate? within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Personally, I've always viewed expertise/competence in a subject area as mostly a reflection of hard work and passion. It would ...

  1. #1

    Do you believe in intelligence being innate?

    Personally, I've always viewed expertise/competence in a subject area as mostly a reflection of hard work and passion.

    It would be a bit reductionistic to say that social conditions/ the individual's developed ability to grasp certain concepts/etc. don't come into play at all but I've never believed or wanted to complacently come to a conclusion that we're just the way we are.

    I think part of it is my interest in Neuroscience, in which you learn that your brain is malleable, meaning that everything is what you make of it. I think that's a prevalent concept in existentialist philosophy too; existence precedes essence. What I'm trying to say is that it's a widespread concept.

    What do you guys think?

    I'm only asking cause I had a conversation with another INTJ and he said that he initially really liked a subject but that he lost interest in it because he didn't do that well in it. He then egotistically asked me if I was 'genuinely' interested in the subject because he has trouble understanding how anyone can possibly like something that he just doesn't think he's 'naturally' good at. I personally think that at a high school level at least, it's mostly 90% hard work, so the fact that he just came to that conclusion in a way sort of demonstrated a lot about his character to me. I thought that maybe I was judging him too harshly so I asked other people for what they thought and some agreed that he was being a bit selfish in saying that/turning away from failure while some say that he justified himself fairly reasonably. I wanted to know what you guys think.
    Last edited by fanaticalmusings; 10-10-2016 at 06:51 AM.



  2. #2

    It's not really a question of what anyone believes. There's scientific research on this which confirms that it is partly innate.

  3. #3

    I think you are a bit off on your reasoning. Interest is the subjective key that we all hold in our hands. I have a preset collection of subjects that I enjoy. Some of them come natural, while others do not. I collect knowledge (even the things I don't like) so that I can understand the people attached to the subjects. Just like the mind is malleable, so is the social scene. The more you know, the more you can impact it to your own liking. I do believe that genetics give us a baseline to start with. Barring mental deficiencies, I believe that organic homeostasis is most individuals driving force to stay "dumb". We, as a species, are a curious lot. We have dramatic differences. It would indeed be folly to put too much belief in nature or nurture.

  4. #4

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin Sane View Post
    It's not really a question of what anyone believes. There's scientific research on this which confirms that it is partly innate.
    Yeah, I know that intelligence is hereditary in some ways, but do you think it's reasonable to live your whole life think that you should resign from learning specific things just because of your heredity?

  5. #5

    Quote Originally Posted by Octavius View Post
    I think you are a bit off on your reasoning. Interest is the subjective key that we all hold in our hands. I have a preset collection of subjects that I enjoy. Some of them come natural, while others do not. I collect knowledge (even the things I don't like) so that I can understand the people attached to the subjects. Just like the mind is malleable, so is the social scene. The more you know, the more you can impact it to your own liking. I do believe that genetics give us a baseline to start with. Barring mental deficiencies, I believe that organic homeostasis is most individuals driving force to stay "dumb". We, as a species, are a curious lot. We have dramatic differences. It would indeed be folly to put too much belief in nature or nurture.
    Can you please explain what you mean by "I think your reasoning is a bit off"? I get what you mean by how interests can be naturally inclined but what does that have anything to do with having an interest in something but losing it because of one's failures in that area?

  6. #6
    INTJ

    I tried to learn calculus. I mean REALLY TRIED, for YEARS. It was a gatekeeper class for a degree I wanted. Impossible. Zero natural inclination/ability in a subject cannot be made up for by trying really hard. My brain just doesn't work that way.

    Of course, I can calculate circles around most people, but in a class that doesn't accept formulaic answers and expects you to "really understand" so every question on the exam is a curve ball? No chance. It's not that I'm stupid, but not everyone is going to be good at everything.
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  7. #7

    I believe intelligence to a large degree is innate. You start with a baseline from your genetics that can move up or down within a small range, depending on your environment and nurture. Brain research has showed the rats that grew up in a better, stimulating environment have healthier brains with more neural connections than those raised in a barren one. That affect has been seen in humans as well. My AP Psych teacher was telling me about (I think after one of the world wars), there were all of these babies in a orphanage who were never shown any affection or attention, and they were basically brain dead. It takes a nurturing environment to get a child to reach its full potential, but the gifts a child has are innate. It would be untrue, if a little arrogant sounding, if I said that I wasn't significantly smarter than my average peer, and probably the average adult. The adults have way more life experience than me however. It balances out.

  8. #8

    Quote Originally Posted by RexMaximus View Post
    I believe intelligence to a large degree is innate. You start with a baseline from your genetics that can move up or down within a small range, depending on your environment and nurture. Brain research has showed the rats that grew up in a better, stimulating environment have healthier brains with more neural connections than those raised in a barren one. That affect has been seen in humans as well. My AP Psych teacher was telling me about (I think after one of the world wars), there were all of these babies in a orphanage who were never shown any affection or attention, and they were basically brain dead. It takes a nurturing environment to get a child to reach its full potential, but the gifts a child has are innate. It would be untrue, if a little arrogant sounding, if I said that I wasn't significantly smarter than my average peer, and probably the average adult. The adults have way more life experience than me however. It balances out.
    Yeah I read about this experiment done by Rosenzweig and Bennett. Rats that were put in impoverished environments (no toys/isolated) had a much thinner layer of neurons in their cortex while those in the environmentally stimulating environment (toys/with other rats) had a much thicker layer; and more acetylcholine receptors. So I guess intelligence is arguably innate. But provided that you weren't environmentally deprived when you were a kid or something, doesn't it invalidate this excuse? Doesn't it mean that you shouldn't turn away from high school level stuff by justifying that you're simply not good at it?

  9. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by fanaticalmusings View Post
    Yeah I read about this experiment done by Rosenzweig and Bennett. Rats that were put in impoverished environments (no toys/isolated) had a much thinner layer of neurons in their cortex while those in the environmentally stimulating environment (toys/with other rats) had a much thicker layer; and more acetylcholine receptors. So I guess intelligence is arguably innate. But provided that you weren't environmentally deprived when you were a kid or something, doesn't it invalidate this excuse? Doesn't it mean that you shouldn't turn away from high school level stuff by justifying that you're simply not good at it?
    The problem with this truth is that it encourages defeatist thinking among those less gifted. It's probably best to keep secret so everyone works to the best of their ability, and ends up as close to their maximum threshold as possible. As long as everyone doesn't expect to have a genius I.Q. The truth lies somewhere between "you can be whatever you want as long as you try hard enough" and "you're naturally gifted or not and there's nothing you can do about it." People who work really hard at something that hey aren't naturally talented at will eventually become skilled at it, but the never be as good as the one who is innately gifted at it.
    Ashie thanked this post.

  10. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by RexMaximus View Post
    The problem with this truth is that it encourages defeatist thinking among those less gifted. It's probably best to keep secret so everyone works to the best of their ability, and ends up as close to their maximum threshold as possible. As long as everyone doesn't expect to have a genius I.Q. The truth lies somewhere between "you can be whatever you want as long as you try hard enough" and "you're naturally gifted or not and there's nothing you can do about it." People who work really hard at something that hey aren't naturally talented at will eventually become skilled at it, but the never be as good as the one who is innately gifted at it.
    But if this person has no known difficulties or impairments, then doesn't it invalidate his claim? Perhaps it might be more difficult for him then for someone with genius IQ, but it's high school level psychology we're talking about here, not college level quantum physics.


     
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