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This is a discussion on Ask the INTPs a question. within the INTP Forum - The Thinkers forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Originally Posted by Aridela I am ashamed to say, all I'm doing for the past few days is writing dirty ...

  1. #12621

    Quote Originally Posted by Aridela View Post
    I am ashamed to say, all I'm doing for the past few days is writing dirty code.

    But I have to get this dissertation done with - almost there now.

    Plus, making sense of Chemoinformatics and several programming languages at the same time, whilst also working full time, was not one of my brightest ideas.
    I only wrote dirty code while studying. No one but me needed to use it and only for a single project, so who cared about documentation or maintainability?

    Nowadays, I feel very passionately about writing clean code, although at my current job I really can't be bothered to try any more, as none of my co-workers seem to care very much. It's one of the reasons I've been applying at other places and asking them what their quality standards are.
    Aridela, HAL and SimplyEnigmatic thanked this post.

  2. #12622

    Looking for help interpreting a statistics question, if anyone's up to it.

    Would you interpret this question in the same way?

     
    "A pharmaceutical company develops a new drug, designed to prevent colds. The company states that the drug is equally effective for men and women. To test this claim, they choose a sample of 200 men (MM) and 150 women (WW) volunteers to take the drug. At the end of the study, 112 of the men and 69 of the women caught a cold. Based on these findings, we investigate whether we can reject the company’s claim that the drug is equally effective for men and women. Use α=0.05α=0.05.

    Give the sample proportions for each group in this study:
    (i) The sample proportion for the men is:
    (ii) The sample proportion for the women is:"
    I interpreted that as being the sample proportion for men and women who the drug worked successfully for (i.e., didn't get a cold), so that the sample proportion for men was 88/200 (0.44) and women was 81/150 (0.54).

    Is that how you would interpret it?
    Or would you interpret that as asking the proportions of men and women who caught a cold, as listed in the description? (112/200=0.56) for men and (69/150=0.46) for women?

    I mostly ask because if I choose the wrong proportion here, I get the next four questions wrong (pooled sample proportion, standard error, test statistic, and p-value); since the values of the proportions here are part of the equations of the following questions.

    Cheers in advance.

  3. #12623

    Quote Originally Posted by Wartime Consigliere View Post
    Looking for help interpreting a statistics question, if anyone's up to it.

    Would you interpret this question in the same way?

     


    I interpreted that as being the sample proportion for men and women who the drug worked successfully for (i.e., didn't get a cold), so that the sample proportion for men was 88/200 (0.44) and women was 81/150 (0.54).

    Is that how you would interpret it?
    Or would you interpret that as asking the proportions of men and women who caught a cold, as listed in the description? (112/200=0.56) for men and (69/150=0.46) for women?

    I mostly ask because if I choose the wrong proportion here, I get the next four questions wrong (pooled sample proportion, standard error, test statistic, and p-value); since the values of the proportions here are part of the equations of the following questions.

    Cheers in advance.
    Why not the divisor be totaled first into 350? Given the assumption that the drug equally effective, thus sex should not matter. Then you can continue with your question. Which I could not answer because of ambiguity.
    Wartime Consigliere thanked this post.

  4. #12624

    Quote Originally Posted by contradictionary View Post
    Why not the divisor be totaled first into 350? Given the assumption that the drug equally effective, thus sex should not matter. Then you can continue with your question. Which I could not answer because of ambiguity.
    I think we have to verify whether the drug is truly equally effective as the company claims, rather than assume it's true.

    But yeah, the ambiguity is annoying af.

    I think proportion of men who didn't get a cold, out of all participants (88/350=0.2514286) and proportion of women who didn't get a cold, out of all participants (81/350=0.2314286) probably isn't what's being asked here.

    But your response got me thinking of the proportion of men in the study to proportion of women in the study, regardless of drug success.
    Proportion of men in the study is 200/350 (0.5714286), and proportion of women in the study is 150/350 (0.4285714).

    But then I found online that "The sample proportion is the fraction of samples which were successes", so now I'm wondering whether success is defined as participants not getting a cold after taking the drug, or success is defined as it being equally effective on men to women. I'm kind of leaning towards the former.

    I found if I used the values/proportions of who caught a cold, the pooled sample proportion changed, but the standard error stayed the same and the test statistic was the same value, but changed from negative (-1.853) to positive (which may or may not be a hint of the correct interpretation).

    Hopefully working out the p-value resolves this confusion.

    Thanks for checking out the problem though.

  5. #12625

    Quote Originally Posted by Wartime Consigliere View Post
    I think we have to verify whether the drug is truly equally effective as the company claims, rather than assume it's true.

    But yeah, the ambiguity is annoying af.

    I think proportion of men who didn't get a cold, out of all participants (88/350=0.2514286) and proportion of women who didn't get a cold, out of all participants (81/350=0.2314286) probably isn't what's being asked here.

    But your response got me thinking of the proportion of men in the study to proportion of women in the study, regardless of drug success.
    Proportion of men in the study is 200/350 (0.5714286), and proportion of women in the study is 150/350 (0.4285714).

    But then I found online that "The sample proportion is the fraction of samples which were successes", so now I'm wondering whether success is defined as participants not getting a cold after taking the drug, or success is defined as it being equally effective on men to women. I'm kind of leaning towards the former.

    I found if I used the values/proportions of who caught a cold, the pooled sample proportion changed, but the standard error stayed the same and the test statistic was the same value, but changed from negative (-1.853) to positive (which may or may not be a hint of the correct interpretation).

    Hopefully working out the p-value resolves this confusion.

    Thanks for checking out the problem though.

    There's no reason to pool the number of participants together since the question hinges on keeping the sexes separate.
    If it were me, and I wanted to corroborate the claim, I'd compare the ratio of male successes/total males tested against female successes/total females tested, and if they aren't equal, then the claim is untrue.
    Wartime Consigliere thanked this post.

  6. #12626

    INTPs, I have a pressing question for which life and death hangs in the balance:

    Why am I asking this question?

  7. #12627
    INTP

    Quote Originally Posted by Wartime Consigliere View Post
    Looking for help interpreting a statistics question, if anyone's up to it.

    Would you interpret this question in the same way?

     


    I interpreted that as being the sample proportion for men and women who the drug worked successfully for (i.e., didn't get a cold), so that the sample proportion for men was 88/200 (0.44) and women was 81/150 (0.54).

    Is that how you would interpret it?
    Or would you interpret that as asking the proportions of men and women who caught a cold, as listed in the description? (112/200=0.56) for men and (69/150=0.46) for women?

    I mostly ask because if I choose the wrong proportion here, I get the next four questions wrong (pooled sample proportion, standard error, test statistic, and p-value); since the values of the proportions here are part of the equations of the following questions.

    Cheers in advance.
    Yeah, the sample for whom it worked correctly.

    Null hypothesis = "The drug is equally effective for men and women."
    Alternative hypothesis = "The drug is not equally effect for men and women."

    You're testing the null hypothesis, so you need to count the cases in which the drug was effective.

    And keep it split between men and women, otherwise the entire point of the comparison is lost.
    Wartime Consigliere thanked this post.

  8. #12628

    This question is a micro representation of where you are at in life right now

    Why am I asking this question? becomes Why am I? when you take everything else away

    Answering that question seems like an impossible task so you have dressed it up as something else to promote a discussion which gives you a solution that can be extrapolated to this grand, sprawling question of Why Am I?

    and you probably weren't even aware of it

  9. #12629

    I took Statistics I and now I am taking Engineering Statistics. In Statistics I, we had to learn the formulas and perform calculations by hand. In Engineering Statistics we learned the forumulas but then we told they don't matter, just use a calculator. The best way to learn Statistics is by hand and with lots of coin toss examples.

    Also, the best way to learn programming is with pencil and paper.
    Pifanjr thanked this post.


     

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