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Q&A about dating INTPs, and INTP dating:

[INTP] 
889K views 8K replies 856 participants last post by  islandlight 
#1 ·
Post your questions about dating INTPs, and dating -as- an INTP in this thread.

The INTP forum gets a lot of threads asking for advice on romantic relations with INTPs, and for advice on how to engage in romantic relations if you are an INTP. I have moved some of them to the advice section, but I don't particularly like moving threads out of type sub-fora, so I'm making this thread and stickying it for those who want to ask the intp forum these specific questions.

When someone posts a new thread of this nature and I don't catch it, any of you are more than welcome to post a link to this thread as a response to show them where their inquiry belongs.

It might be good to have all this information in one place anyway as a guide for newcomers with similar questions, so that people don't have to keep giving the same advice.

*If someone feels that their intp romance related question really needs its own thread, thats fine. This is just here to keep things organized more, and perhaps create a knowledge base for this topic all in one place.
 
#2,111 ·
I really go in for pets. If a guy has a pet in his profile and doesn't have any deal breakers, I'm going to take a closer look at that guy. If he has a lot of of pictures of himself with animals, then my interest is going to be peaked. I may even overlook the fact that he's kind of homely if he's got lots of pictures with his cat, pictures of him playing with dolphins, and pictures of him feeding animals at the petting zoo.

But, hey, that's if you want to attract an ENFJ.

I know I started feeling warm and fuzzy about INTP's when y'all had a whole thread on why cats like boxes with lots of silly pictures and satirical musings.
 
#2,113 ·
No cat love here. My friend has house mates with two cats, I couldn't live there. I would like an aquarium with fish but I would prefer other animals to take care of themselves and not share my living space. I might make an exception some marsupials though (like a possum or wallaby), they are pretty cool animals.
 
#2,112 ·
This is compeltely unrrelated to previous posts, but:

1. What personality types are most complimentary to INTP for relationships (I should also say that I am male)
2. In what environments conducive to dating are these women likely to be found?
3. What distinguishing characteristics do they have that you can recognise before you talk to them? Are there any?

Some personal notes: I'm pretty open to most personalities, however it's a must to be with someone intelligent but emotionally perceptive and non-judgemental. I need to be able to talk about things that are dear to me and many people might not understand, but without the fear that I'll be blasted (like has happened with my parents a lot). I don't care if I get into an argument with some random or even a friend, but I break into pieces if the same thing happens with someone I care for deeply.

Thank you
 
#2,116 ·
This isn't really a dating question per se. I've been getting rides to work the past three months with 4 different co-workers (all women who are married/spoken for). I'd like to get them all something nice in the next few weeks. I was in the same position last year and couldn't think of anything to get them then either so failed. I know they all liked helping me out, but I'd still like to show my appreciation. What do you think a nice token would be?
 
#2,117 ·
A nice key chain/fob? Like from a department store...not chintzy. Or a little picture frame, if they like to have pictures of family/friends/pets at their desk. Small plants in a nice pot works, too. Something you can customize for each person a little (if you want to) while getting them all essentially the same thing. Category: the thoughtful office gift.
 
#2,126 ·
Well, a bit of an update to the ENFJ situation. Well, an update if that is what you want to call it.

Had only seen her for about 20 minutes over the past two weeks but worked with her today. Just friendly chatter between us though out the day, as it had been, she called me funny once again shortly after I got in and I was talking to her. Before she left, I got a high five. At first I thought perhaps a hug was coming. Maybe it was and she stopped herself? Not sure. I have seen this weird little move before. Its probably nothing.

The one thing different I come to realize is, some of the "activities" before I got "checkmated" have stopped, namely the "flirting". This leaves me to believe she really was not interested in me at all or perhaps (probably more likely) I took it as a sign of interest from her.

I mean, we still seemingly get along with each other, talk, laugh. Probably just nothing but friendly co worker chatter.

I have been trying to talk to other people in the place, but know its not a real substitute for actually getting out and doing things the way normal people seem to do. Because the cycle will likely repeat. INTP meets girl at work, they get along, INTP gets all naive and shit hits the fan. Like its done before.

This whole thing has been a total "head screw" :unsure::sad:
 
#2,139 ·
Hmm, I think the fact that she was flirting and stopped means that she was interested on some level and then caught herself. Interest is a fluid thing. She may have been feeling something and enjoying the flirting, but then she realized that she was unfairly leading you on and stopped before she could hurt you too much. Or she may have been feeling something and then realized--holy crap--what am I doing--I have a boyfriend. So she stopped before it could burn out of control. Or it was the co-worker thing. Or she was initially interested and then got to know you and decided that the two of you were more compatible as friends than anything else.

There is this other bit though where we ENFJ do sometimes come across as flirting because we are so expressive with our emotions and appreciation of others--it can be just ordinary appreciation--which is still no small thing to us--but to T types and to I's it can seem like so much more than what they would do that we can seem super into them and get misunderstood and misread. It leads to many an embarrassing situation for us actually--including many situations where some guy who doesn't like us back thinks that we like him and goes around telling everyone how we are so into him when we were just being nice.

The fact that she is still being friendly to you also means that she cares about you. Most ENFJ are genuine. She has a soft spot in her heart for you--she probably isn't going to do you any time soon if ever. But you mean something to her. I am sure that she thinks about you a lot. Our contact is never casual.

Heck, you mean something to me, and I don't even know you. Hugs!!!
 
#2,131 ·
I was in an argument with another poster about gender sometime previously, hence the reason for the link.

Personally I'd like to bury that as no lessons have been learned and time is precious.

Back to subject.
 
#2,140 ·
Has anyone one had the experience of a girl deciding to ignore you? Why the hell do they do that? Oh how life would be easier being homosexual or a woman. You can't change who you are though (without a sex change anyway - not interested in that though).
 
#2,150 ·
INTP guys (and I guess girls can answer as well), do you ever find yourself being emotionally unstable?

My INTP ''would be something more but isn't yet'' friend sometimes is acting very emotionally unstable. He's gonna be all cool and chill and rational for some time and at one moment just vomiting emotional outbursts. It's always surprising to me - nothing up to that would indicate that he's gonna break down soon and then suddenly, like a storm after stillness. Is it just him being immature or is it something INTPs sometimes do?
 
#2,151 ·
*pleads guilty* We all have our triggers, inferior Fe tends to mean we try to avoid these topics and have pretty poorly developed coping styles to deal with emotionally intense things in general. And while I don't think it of myself, I've heard from plenty of people that we aren't very good at giving warning signals, emoting in general, when something's been bothering us for a while.

We ARE however very, very good at mulling about a topic for hours, days, trying to rationally deal with something that touches us emotionally, getting nowhere, and building tension. The slightest prod then sets off the shitstorm, and thena fterwards we'll usually just feel drained and ashamed and awkward about it.
When such a shitstorm happens, try to remember than emotional intensity like that is transient, and has *very little to do with the situation or with you*. We're flipping our shit over an idea, a concept, a principle, not about something real happening there and then. Let him spout, let him rave, and once he's calmed down you can point out that he problably realises that wasn't really a reasonable response, and ask him if he'd like to maybe take a look at what about the situation got his goat so much.

The last step then would be for him to acknowledge that, just like every other person, he has feelings, biases, and values, and that it's okay to have an 'irrational' small response at first, and that there are much better ways to discharge emotional discomfort than to try and overthink it until it becomes a 'thing'.

Something that helps for me is to take distance from a situation, and remind myself that when another person triggers me, they don't owe it to me to live up to my standards of decency/logic/intellectual honesty/manners. It's okay if I dislike what they do, but there's nothing I can gain from puffing up about it. 'Their loss'.

Of course not everything can be dismissed so easily, I do have my triggers that hit me right in the emotional 'nads, so to speak. Knowing when to time-out can be valuable there.
 
#2,153 ·
Maybe, and I say just maybe, I get where yout INTP is coming from, @SplitTheAtom. One of the reasons I would never venture into a 'cyber' or virtual relationship, so to speak, it's precisely the fact that it is not physical. My thinking is: I spend most of my time alone, by myself, and I'm OK with it. I love my solitude. If I start a romantic relationship is because being with that someone somehow surpasses my love of solitude (does that make sense?). Being with that person provides me more as a human being that enjoying my time alone, in my thoughts, or ideas. If I develop romantic feelings for someone I haven't seen in person and who's thousands of miles away, what's the use of it? For me, the physical aspect of a relationship is crucial, and I'm not talking here about sex in particular, or the fact of living near one another. I'm talking about a connection that's so strong that everything else stems from it. Mental, spiritual and sexual are things that go together. I need that physicality, otherwise the man in question will be a friend, and nothing else. Surely I can see myself liking someone who I haven't met in person, finding them interesting, fun, smart, etc. and developing feelings for them but...how is that different from me crushing on a fictional character, the idea of someone instead of that person's true self?
I'd be eating my brains everyday trying to find arguments not to vow out of it. Every second I'd be hearing that voice telling me it's a waste of time.

A long distance relationship is different, though, I'd be willing to give it a try, provided that I actually had the chance to meet that person and be with them. In that case, if I find myself in love, I'd be willing to make all the efforts to make it work and then some more.
 
#2,154 ·
@passmethecookies I think I get where he is coming from as well. I mean, I don't feel much different. But the thing is, I don't see this as a romantic relationship, because it isn't. I see this as just meeting someone. Sure, seeing whether this could work out is much more difficult, but I guess I am willing to try and wait. And because we both enjoy solitude, I see this working out more than if it were 2 extroverts.

Ehh, we'll see. I am so used to and completely fine with this situation, that if it ended now, like this, I would still feel kinda hurt and upset.

Haha, maybe I'm more stable in this situation because living in an imagination land helps keep you warm and manipulate with your reality :D
 
#2,155 ·
I see for you it's the possibility of getting to know him without the romantic part at least per se.
But, do you think the situation would prompt his emotional outbursts if he didn't see the romantic part as a possibility? Just throwing the question there. I have a hard time thinking something like a friendship (regardless of the context it's developing in) would trigger that kind of Fe outbursts in me. I don't see an INTP being overcome by Fe for something he's not really investing in. Not that this has to be your INTP situation of course, just an idea, probably just my own projection.
 
#2,161 ·
@Graficcha one more little question though - were you guys friends in real life before or did you meet online?
We met online in a roleplay group I lead xD Through the same hobby we became friends, and very close friends later.

We still roleplay together, with many characters between us, and it's a real emotionally satifying, cathartic thing to share. He's very creative, patient, witty and sensitive, and we do the oddest things together in our fantasy worlds. For us, that's a way of having quality time, 'satisfying communication' beyond giving each other life updates and talking about ideas and feelings, something fun to do that's relaxing for the both of us instead of 100% intense or semi-routine all the time.

I'm guessing that with 'unsatisfying' he means that it might leave him yearning, on edge, exhausted, rather than feeling cosy and relaxed and optimistic.

We also from time to time play online games together, for a while it was Spiral knights but that became a money sink, now we picked up the Starbound beta where we'll make a server for us and explore together, cooperate like that, I find it really fun. Yay for finding him a cool hat item as a gift and him spending a few hours mining minerals and giving me a load of smelted metal to advance armour tiers with XD
Also good for uh, play-testing differences, like how I'm an impatient as fuck 'oh my god just hit it with a hammer' gamer and he's more the 'no wait lemme micromanage my inventory first, shall I take a faster, weaker gun or a slower, stronger one, HMMMM' kind of player. Drives me right batty but in exchange for the occasional 'uuuurghhh' I'll help him raise his plants :p

Distance scale: I live in Belgium, and he lives in California. We're nine hours apart.
 
#2,162 ·
I met a possible INTP through a school musical production that ended just a few days ago.
I'm interested in him, but I'm unsure how to go about it.
He's not all that social and doesn't particularly go out of his way to interact with people. However, during rehearsals, I did often notice him getting bored sitting alone and going around as if in search of something interesting to do with people - which usually sent him to my friends and I (my friends are huge extroverts, which is draining at times, but otherwise makes my life much more enjoyable).
In general, he doesn't mind social interaction, but he doesn't have friends, at least from what I've seen. He's friendly when he talks to others and is pretty sarcastic and witty and has a strange sense of humor, but because of this, he also seems a bit dense when it comes to girls. Again, he's not all that into people. This and the fact that he's a year older than me (so we don't share any classes) and rarely answers his email (though he did give it to me) only adds to the difficulty of finding a way to approach him.

How should I find time to spend with him?
Should I talk to him about deeper/more personal topics? Note: He doesn't seem to receptive to personal conversations. These types of conversations seem far more brief than conversations discussing other topics.
Also, how should I go about letting him now I'm interested?

Please help a socially inept INTJ out, guys.
 
#2,164 ·
I'd say, go ahead and take the situation as a cue, see where the conversation heads, don't be afraid to take things deeper, but if as you say he's not into 'personal' things, then focus on an external topic and what he thinks about it rather than 'hey tell me about you'.

Strike up a chat with him, take initiative, and if you're feeling gutsy, how about 'hey, we've been tlaking a while now and you know what, you're a right interesting guy, it's really fun'. Give'm a compliment, let'm know you noticed his unique traits there. See how he responds to that, he might just get more comfortable with you once he knows you're on his side.
 
#2,173 ·
I see. INTPs when open up are magical, a whole 'nother world.
(I can't explain it, because for us this is normal, why aren't other types like this? Only they can tell.)
That's why many people say that if a person takes time with them, and pass the initial issues it's really worthwhile.

His reaction was normal (for us). That's the way we think, too logical. Besides, going out hooking up is not like an INTP at all, you don't need to bring that up at all. Don't bother with loyalty issues, INTPs tend to be very loyal and faithful. If he feels like quitting on you he'll tell you and probably talk to you much less. Not personal, just limited time, unlimited ideas. That's why we have very few friends, but great friends.

Suggestion? It kind of depends on his maturity atm.
That little bug was already placed there... :S
I guess for now avoid bringing that up. INTPs spread the thoughts too thin, if it doesn't come up he might see it has a wrong assumption. If you bring it up he'll be flooded with that moment all over again.
If by chance it comes up, or he has another outburst and brings it don't try to lie your way out, just be honest and try to articulate it logically. Something like "I'm sorry I made you thought that way, I was just afraid to pressure you."
INTPs can understand and relate to that.

Hope it all works out. I'm always rooting for fellow INTPs (it's never enough, right? :tongue: )
 
#2,177 ·
I too relate to the all or nothing! For my last long relationship I did precisely that (like a girl online, fly there to find out, then shortly after sell my belongings and move to her). It was a great decision and I have no regrets even though we're not together today.

Thought I'd share a bit of my experience, maybe it helps, maybe not..

@SplitTheAtom

Being able to talk for many hours a day for months, even if you're never met, is an incredibly promising indicator that you're getting along well. I really hope you get to meet up :)

By the little I've read here he sounds quite similar to me and she (INFP) sounds quite similar to you. Creepy! I found it really difficult to commit more and more when she seemed less realistic about it working out, especially with distance. Turns out I'm basically a lot more proactive while she's the complete opposite.

The best recommendation I could give to you is to talk about what you would do, look at possible dates, how to afford it, how long you could meet for, look forward to it and so on. Maybe you already do - but if he needs more assurance talking about the shared future can be very soothing.

I can only speak of my own experience so it might not be that useful, but in a quite similar situation I found it very offensive when she told me I shouldn't be so focused, dedicated, hopeful. It's like saying she knows I'm going to be disappointed because she's not as serious about it.. ouch!

My point is, focus more about what's possible and positive, not the other options. I'm sure he's aware already, so no need to rub it in :)
 
#2,179 ·
I too relate to the all or nothing! For my last long relationship I did precisely that (like a girl online, fly there to find out, then shortly after sell my belongings and move to her). It was a great decision and I have no regrets even though we're not together today.
I remember a guy that I instantly connected with (INTP probably) that came to my university in that same situation. He had moved around 600Km to be close to her but it didn't workout. I remember feeling bad for him and telling him he should have tested the waters more before committing to such a change. At the time I was in a similar situation but hadn't moved, was still figuring out if it was the right call.
It turned out I didn't move, our relation dyed sometime later (maybe I should say I let it die?) because she wasn't compromising enough for me. I'm glad I took a bit more time to figure out the mixed signs.
 
#2,180 ·
That's interesting about the all or nothing concept with you all. Since you all are not J types, I would not have thought you would be black and white about such things.

But with my INTP boyfriend, it seems that we've had a rather unconventional courtship. The first day that we met he said I was healing the hole in his heart, and we've been an exclusive couple from our second date.

That's been sort of hard for me to process actually. Jumping in so quickly before we have patterns and know each other seems to have raised a lot more insecurities and big issues for me than if we had grown slowly together over time. There are so many competing emotions.

At the same time, all of his talk about love and relationships was very appealing to me--ENFJ's eat that up.

Still, it seems that I am working hard to get heard in this relationship.

And he seems to have set me to ignore today for some reason--which is weird because he didn't want to leave the last time we saw each other. We haven't been together long enough yet for me to tell what's going on when he does that and whether it's part of a recurrent pattern--or that now that he's away from my pheromones for a few days he's processing our problems and deciding that it's unworkable. Maybe he's just processing our problems.

In truth, I am processing them too and was actually ready for him to go when he left. I felt relieved--which is odd for me--I'm into togetherness. I'm still processing and still need time, but after a couple of days apart I am starting to want to get more email or texts from him. I should remember that he does not like email, text, or the phone though.

Still, short, little, sweet pinging texts can be nice. It keeps up positive feelings while still allowing both parties time to process.
 
#2,184 ·
That's interesting about the all or nothing concept with you all. Since you all are not J types, I would not have thought you would be black and white about such things.
It's different. My reasoning is that while Js look for closure per se, choosing what to gather from the outside (usually what agrees with their conclusions), we gather everything from outside, the more variables the better, we love to dwell on hypothesis and that's really time consuming, that's why we have to prioritize (either if we want to or not).


But with my INTP boyfriend, it seems that we've had a rather unconventional courtship. The first day that we met he said I was healing the hole in his heart, and we've been an exclusive couple from our second date.

That's been sort of hard for me to process actually. Jumping in so quickly before we have patterns and know each other seems to have raised a lot more insecurities and big issues for me than if we had grown slowly together over time. There are so many competing emotions.
Maybe he's more E than you think. It's not normal for INTPs to go so "muchy muchy" at start, unless you've known each other for a long time before the "date".

And he seems to have set me to ignore today for some reason--which is weird because he didn't want to leave the last time we saw each other. We haven't been together long enough yet for me to tell what's going on when he does that and whether it's part of a recurrent pattern--or that now that he's away from my pheromones for a few days he's processing our problems and deciding that it's unworkable. Maybe he's just processing our problems.

In truth, I am processing them too and was actually ready for him to go when he left. I felt relieved--which is odd for me--I'm into togetherness. I'm still processing and still need time, but after a couple of days apart I am starting to want to get more email or texts from him. I should remember that he does not like email, text, or the phone though.

Still, short, little, sweet pinging texts can be nice. It keeps up positive feelings while still allowing both parties time to process.
INTPs need space, don't take it personally. You're not an NT, so he has to discuss his theories with himself or another person. They say ENFJs are supposed to balance INTPs and make good partners. If you have any issues with him try to express them clearly, we can be... "a bit" dense :p

Personally I never understood that email/text/phone phobia people paint. I've never felt that. Maybe I won't notice them at the time and thus don't answer, but usually will when I get the chance. Unless someone send me an SMS saying "Hi", nothing more, in which case 99,99% chance of being ignored, because it annoys me (specially if it interrupts something)... and I see that as a desperate call for attention with no content to address. (Thus some call us cold, blunt, brute, whatever)

PS - You might want to take a peak into personalitycafe.com/intp-articles/300-guides-deeper-relationship-intps.html 1st post, under Iganokami's Guide to the INTP Mate.
 
#2,182 ·
Since we are doing videos now here's one I found today. So crazy that it'd probably work.



I guess I probably have some anxiety issues. The fear of being judged......which is obviously soul destroying when jumping in (or trying to jump into) the dating game. Going by this guys idea, I should just suck it up and enjoy the pain, haha.
 
#2,183 · (Edited)
pffff, what am I worrying about? Seems in general that the girls I come across are happy enough to talk to me. Really need to grab a number though........we were even talking about phones today, what a perfect segue......doh, why did I just think of that, haha.
 
#2,186 ·
Just a heads up, at least in my (painful) limited experiences, getting a girls number does not mean anything, unfortunately. Sometimes I think they do that so its easier for them to ignore your calls so they will not have to reject you strait up to your face.

This may not be so in your case, or anyone else's, however.

With that being said, Good luck!
 
#2,185 ·
Is anyone as slow (or maybe just inexperienced) as I am with these sort of encounters? I had a very pretty girl tell me flat out that she was really attracted to me and it took me at least an hour to work through how she probably meant that, and I'm honestly still kind of doubting. Maybe she meant it platonically? But then normal people don't really approach you like that, and she might've been a little nervous, so I feel kind of bad. I mean she seemed really cool but....??

Maybe it's a probability question. If someone at a crazy party comes up to you and says your dancing is awesome and that they're really attracted to you then they probably mean that romantically/sexually. But some people express themselves uniquely. Like maybe they're just sharing. She might have wanted my number though (but my phone wasn't right on me). Or maybe she wanted a conversation. Or maybe she meant what she said. I'm guessing if that's not how you use those words you throw out a disclaimer and if you're saying it so directly you want to be clear. But I'm slow enough that I'd have needed her to not only put emphasis but to pause to take effect, but most people don't.....so I'm guessing since she put herself out there, myself doing the same even for clarity would've been the correct and fair action to take. Since she was sweet, and I guess brave about it.

Maybe this is a clear-cut thing. Am I the only person who's this slow about things that seem so direct and obvious? Does it just take more experience?
 
#2,188 ·
Is anyone as slow (or maybe just inexperienced) as I am with these sort of encounters? ...
Welcome to the INTP club lol. It's easy to shock INTPs and get them suspicious with emotions/emotional talk.
I hope the following serves as consolation though, with the years and experience it becomes easier.

As food for thought, do you see yourself on the following phrase:
"For me emotions are, in effect, tied to events... events are tied to memories... and memories are tied to "trains of thought"."
 
#2,187 ·
Holy shit....

What is abandoholism?

You’ve heard of food-oholism, work-oholism, shop-oholism and, of course, alcoholism. Now here comes another, most insidious, addictive pattern – aband-oholism. Abandoholism is one of Outer Child’s most insidious patterns.
Abandoholism is a tendency to become attracted to unavailable partners. Many abandonment survivors are caught up in this painful pattern.
Abandoholism is similar to the other ‘oholisms, but instead of being addicted to a substance, you’re addicted to the emotional drama of heartbreak. You pursue hard-to-get partners to keep the romantic intensity going, and to keep your body’s love-chemicals and stress hormones flowing.
What makes someone an abandoholic?

Abandoholism sets in when you’ve been hurt so many times that you’ve come to equate insecurity with love. Unless you’re pursuing someone you’re insecure about, you don’t feel in love.
Conversely, when someone comes along who wants to be with you, that person’s availability fails to arouse the required level of insecurity. If you can’t feel those yearning, lovesick feelings, then you don’t feel attracted, so you keep pursuing unavailable partners.
You become psychobiologically addicted to the high stakes drama of an emotional challenge and the love-chemicals that go with it.
Abandoholism is driven by both fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment.
When you’re attracted to someone, it arouses a fear of losing that person. This fear causes you to become clingy and needy. You try to hide your insecurity, but your desperation shows through, causing your partners to lose romantic interest in you. They sense your emotional suction cups aiming straight toward them and it scares them away.
Fear of engulfment is at the opposite end of the spectrum. It occurs when someone is pursuing you and now you’re the one pulling back. You feel engulfed by that person’s desire to be with you. When fear of engulfment kicks in, you panic. Your feelings shut down. You no longer feel the connection. The panic is about your fear of being engulfed by the other person’s emotional expectations of you. You fear that the other person’s feelings will pressure you to abandon your own romantic needs.
Fear of engulfment is one of the most common causes for the demise of new relationships, but it is carefully disguised in excuses like: “He just doesn’t turn me on.” Or “I don’t feel any chemistry.” Or “She’s too nice to hold my interest.” Or “I need more of a challenge.”
Abandoholics tend to swing back and forth between fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment. You’re either pursuing hard-to-get-lovers, or you’re feeling turned off by someone who IS interested in you.
What is Abando-phobism?

Abandophobics are so afraid of rejection that they avoid relationships altogether.
Abandophobics act out their fear of abandonment by remaining socially isolated, or by appearing to search for someone, when in fact they are pursuing people who are unattainable, all to avoid the risk of getting attached to a real prospect – someone who might abandon them sooner or later.
There is a little abandophobism in every abandoholic.
For both abandoholics and abandophobics, a negative attraction is more compelling than a positive one.
You only feel attracted when you’re in pursuit. You wouldn’t join any club who would have you as a member, so you’re always reaching for someone out of reach.
How do abandoholism and abandophobism set in?

These patterns may have been cast in childhood. You struggled to get more attention from your parents but you were left feeling unfulfilled, which caused you to doubt your self-worth. Over time, you internalized this craving for approval and you learned to idealize others at your own expense. This became a pattern in your love-relationships.
Now as an adult, you recreate this scenario by giving your love-partners all of your power, elevating them above yourself, recreating those old familiar yearnings you grew accustomed to as a child. Feeling emotionally deprived and “less-than” is what you’ve come to expect.
Why does the insecurity linger?

Recent scientific research shows that rather than dissipate, fear tends to incubate, gaining intensity over time. Insecurity increases with each romantic rejection, causing you to look to others for something you’ve become too powerless to give yourself: esteem. When you seek acceptance from a withholding partner, you place yourself in a one-down position, recreating the unequal dynamics you had with your parents or peers. You choreograph this scenario over and over.
Conversely, you are unable to feel anything when someone freely admires or appreciates you.
This abandonment compulsion is insidious. You didn’t know it was developing. Until now you didn’t have a name for it: Abandoholism is a new concept.
Insecurity is an aphrodisiac.

If you are a hard-core abandoholic, you’re drawn to a kind of love that is highly combustible. The hottest sex is when you’re trying to seduce a hard-to-get lover. Insecurity becomes your favorite aphrodisiac. These intoxicated states are produced when you sense emotional danger – the danger of your lover’s propensity to abandon you the minute you get attached.
At the other end of the seesaw, you turn off and shut down when you happen to successfully win someone’s love. If your lover succumbs to your charms – heaven forbid – you suddenly feel too comfortable, too sure of him to stay interested. There’s not enough challenge to sustain your sexual energy. You interpret your turn-off as his not being right for you.
How about following your gut?

If you’re an abandoholic, following your gut is probably what got you into these patterns in the first place. Your gut gets you to pursue someone who makes your heart go pitter pat, not because he’s the right one, but because he arouses fear of abandonment. And your gut gets you to avoid someone who is truly trustworthy, because he doesn’t press the right insecurity buttons.
Enrich your mind. Follow your wisdom. But until you overcome your abandonment compulsion, don’t follow your gut – it will only get you into trouble – because your gut tells you that unavailable people are attractive.
Link to the page: Abandoholics Anonymous | Fear of Abandonment | Abandonment Therapy | Abandonment Recovery | Susan Anderson

Figured I would drop this here if anyone was interested.
 
#2,189 ·
Holy shit....
Hmmm... I see where the idea is coming from, it has logic, but if you keep reading it starts to fall apart because it has mistakes.
"Abandoholism is driven by both fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment."
By what the author says, Abandoholism encompasses people who are afraid to lose Ego (engulfed), and people who are afraid to stay with Ego (abandoned).
It's like saying Workaholics love to work and love not to work.

Abandoholism is not driven by fear of engulfment, at the very least you experience something similar to "fear of engulfment", you interpret it as such, and push back. In reality though, what you're doing is only searching for another source for your addictedness of "fear abandonment".

My reasoning is that they simply expressed it wrong. (which is kind of amusing seeing the amount of time spent on supposed study and writing conclusions that can easily be broken apart logically... but I diverge... staying on point).

What they should say is something among the lines:
Every person has a bit of both, fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment. Everyone has felt the "Thrill of the hunt", ones more than others of course, but when someone can only feel excited when the abandonment is imminent, it's because it's too severe.
That's probably an indicator that you might suffer from Abandoholism, probably triggered from past experiences.

I just fixed it... where's my paycheck? Oh shit, I should have gotten that before :p

I always take these vague and ambiguous concepts with a grain of salt. Reminds me that now people are branding all children as Hyperactive because they run aroun' (this might not be the case where you live though).
 
#2,196 ·
Oh dear, you're going to get me in trouble here Strelok! I think getting laid is generally easier if you're a single woman or homosexual male. I've heard gay men say it can be something along the lines of "sex first, ask questions later." These are massive generalisations I know. Now, I don't want to go on about how hard I have it (did that a few days ago, haha). Life's not that bad, plenty of attractive woman out there and there's nothing stopping me from talking to them.
 
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#2,203 · (Edited)
Okay, second topic wholly unrelated to the above.

My INTP and I definitely have ISSUES. He's so the opposite of what I would think I would want or need in many ways.

Yet, one of the things that grabs me and keeps me in the relationship is that he really wants it to work. And he does a lot of problem-solving.

It's just that he doesn't fully grasp what some of the problems are. And I have a lot of trouble communicating my needs to him because we have a conversation dynamic that shuts me down. So I feel very unheard. I've been trying to talk to him about that dynamic. But when he gets upset, it is definitely like pulling teeth.

I'm thinking of writing a manual of me. My hope is that by writing the manual I will be able to communicate things in a way that makes him not feel blamed and helps him to more logically understand psychological aspects of me that elude him. Do you think an INTP would be appreciative of something like that? (I know there are individual differences.)
 
#2,208 ·
I'm thinking of writing a manual of me. My hope is that by writing the manual I will be able to communicate things in a way that makes him not feel blamed and helps him to more logically understand psychological aspects of me that elude him. Do you think an INTP would be appreciative of something like that? (I know there are individual differences.)
That's smart! Break it down into tiny pieces so his Ti doesn't have to work so hard or there'll be a lot if highlighting and questions haha. There's actually something online you might be interested in that was kinda designed for something like that, I got to meet the creators and they're really cool....ill Pm it to you.
 
#2,209 ·
I am loving that link. I think I am going to talk with him first about the idea to see whether he is amenable.

The tricky thing is that he gets skeptical about psychology. He's skeptical about myers-briggs too. It's funny--the irl INTP's I know really don't want to be categorized--yet I see such similarities in their patterns.

He will read everything he can get his hands on about medicine, physics, the sea, programming, or engineering---but he's VERY uneducated in comparison to me when it comes to psychology--and he doubts the field as a whole. I suppose I should not fault him for that given that I have expertise--I'm not a psychologist--but for years I worked in a field where I vetted psychological research and psychologists---applied their findings--and presented their findings to others in a convincing way. Psychology is also a hobby--so I am always reading about it, going to therapy, hanging out on this forum, etc. And I'm now in teaching--and a lot of pedagogy is really a brand of psychology. And my scholarship also involves it. So I shouldn't expect him to know as much as I do---but at the same time--it's frustrating when I have years of both experiential and theoretical learning under my belt--and he opposes what I say. And it's like, well, you have to go through the university of me to understand it. I know that sounds kind of arrogant. But I don't know how to explain that I'm an expert, and he's not without sounding arrogant. Maybe it's not arrogant--because I'm not saying that I'm infallible--just that I know a lot and have a lot of expertise that illuminates a lot. I know enough to know that I don't know everything and that I can benefit from what others know.
 
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