[ISFJ] Are ISFJs opposed to progressiveness ???

Are ISFJs opposed to progressiveness ???

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This is a discussion on Are ISFJs opposed to progressiveness ??? within the ISFJ Forum - The Nurturers forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; I know, I know, it's a vague question and I'll go more in depth in you want me to, although, ...

  1. #1
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    Are ISFJs opposed to progressiveness ???

    I know, I know, it's a vague question and I'll go more in depth in you want me to, although, that would bore me.


    Adjective. Favouring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, especially in political matters: a progressive mayor.



  2. #2

    I would say no, this seems to depend on a person's upbring and personal beliefs than type. Personally, I'm pretty liberal.

  3. #3

    My dad's an ISFJ and he's an interesting one. On the one hand, he's super easily hooked by anti-liberal bs but he also tends to have non-partisan ideas about what's right and wrong. I'd say he believes in simplicity and respecting the planet and others more than anything, and he doesn't often think too hard about whether that more aligns with progressive or conservative politics. He hates fracking as much as he hates abortions.
    HIX thanked this post.

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  5. #4

    IME, no. My ISFJ husband is pretty progressive. Regarding his home and work, he is methodical and steady as SJs are, but he is keen on improvements that help get to the heart of a matter. He's not into maintaining the status quo for its own sake, just when it's the best practical option currently available. As is common with SJs, if there is good concrete evidence indicating that a different method would be do the job better, then he is almost always supportive of taking the new route. Politically, he's quite liberal. What I really respect about his viewpoint is that he cares about getting it into voice/action at the community level. He participates in demonstrations, local government meetings open to residents, grassroots organizations, and so on. He's not just progressive but also active.
    Notus Asphodelus, eatery125 and HIX thanked this post.

  6. #5

    I think most SJs are under-appreciated when it comes to their sense of practicalities on the side of progressions. They do want progress but in a way that will work. Not some pipe dreams. When they truly believe in something, they would do anything in their power to materialize their goals into reality. Saying they don't like progress is a bit exaggerated.
    angelfish, Suntide, teddy564339 and 2 others thanked this post.

  7. #6

    If you ask me, the saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" does not apply to ISFJs. Yes, I am a creature of habit. However, this does not mean that I am opposed to progressiveness. It simply means that I have a unique way of approaching said progressiveness. Unless I'm shown a better way of doing things, I have a very high tendency to prefer to do the same thing time and time again.
    eatery125, teddy564339, secondpassing and 2 others thanked this post.

  8. #7
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    Quote Originally Posted by Notus Asphodelus View Post
    I think most SJs are under-appreciated when it comes to their sense of practicalities on the side of progressions. They do want progress but in a way that will work. Not some pipe dreams. When they truly believe in something, they would do anything in their power to materialize their goals into reality. Saying they don't like progress is a bit exaggerated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripwire_Desire View Post
    If you ask me, the saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" does not apply to ISFJs. Yes, I am a creature of habit. However, this does not mean that I am opposed to progressiveness. It simply means that I have a unique way of approaching said progressiveness. Unless I'm shown a better way of doing things, I have a very high tendency to prefer to do the same thing time and time again.


    I've thought about this kind of thing a fair bit recently, and I strongly agree with both of these posts.



    I wonder a lot how being an ISFJ has affected my own views on politics. It's really hard for me to say how much of it is related to my type, especially because I know ISFJs (and probably all types to some degree) have a very wide variety of political beliefs.



    I end up being a moderate, largely for the reason that I tend to constantly view any topic from both sides. For me, I think it boils down to a combination of my Fe and Ti. My Fe always wants to try to understand where someone is coming from and WHY they believe what they do. I have a strong desire to get people to understand one another and to try to find areas where they agree so they can work together towards achieving common goals.

    I hate the idea that people are so completely different that their politics will always make them divided. It feels like a lot of people I know have reached that point...they feel like the other side is so deluded by everything that there's no point in even talking to them, and instead politics is all about beating them.

    This is where I end up being so frustrated with politics. It feels like everyone I talk to is so strongly on one side that a political conversation just becomes about spouting off why they're right and why people on the other side are just morons and there's no point in trying to convince them of anything.


    My Ti intensifies this because with any topic, my mind really wants to find more information on both sides. Any time I start leaning strongly towards a topic, my mind wants to find information that may pose a counter to that belief.

    This doesn't mean that I don't believe more strongly on some issues than others. Some I'm more 50/50 on, and others I feel strongly to one side. But I always like to consider why there is another side to any topic.



    As far as progressiveness goes, it's just like what Notus and Tripwire says. With dominant Si, my mind trusts what I have concrete proof of and that I know for sure works. My default position is to trust in what's already there, even if there are flaws. I tend to focus on how to improve the flaws of something I feel works rather than overthrowing a whole system.


    On paper, this would make me anti-progressive. But I think SJs sometimes get labeled with that when it's not fully true. We're not resistant to every new change that can come about....we're just more skeptical of these theories when we're not sure if they'll work. If there was a way to show us that the new way will definitely work for sure, then we'd be on board. We don't resist change just because we don't like change.

    However, I think we're much more risk averse than a lot of types. If there's a new idea, and there's a 50/50 chance that it will either makes things better or make things worse, we're probably going to choose to keep things the same. I don't think that's true for many N and P types. They're ok with things getting worse because they feel like they can then change it again. That kind of instability really stresses out SJs.



    So that's my issue with a lot of the progressive ideas that are big in American politics right now. For example, A LOT of people I know love Bernie Sanders and think he's the best ever. They tend to feel like he's unfairly written off as a socialist and that if people actually listened to his ideas, he would improve their lives...and they that they stupidly shoot themselves in the foot by not believing him.


    For me, I think what he says SOUNDS great. If I had completely concrete proof that everything he proposes would work just like he says, I would be all for him. But I have a skepticism about his ideas, and that't where things get murky for me. The issues start getting really complex as some articles say this will work and others don't, and it becomes very hard to find where the truth is.

  9. #8

    I agree with a lot of what teddy564339 says above.

    One progressive idea I like is the supervised (intravenous drug) injection facilities that Canada has implemented in certain cities; I hope the idea catches on in the U.S. I absolutely hate the scourge of heroin and opiate addiction in this country, but giving addicts clean needles and a safe place to shoot up makes good sense IMO. Clean needles reduce the chance of addicts getting HIV and/or spreading it to loved ones who aren't addicted. I admit I could be wrong about this--there could be some unforeseen consequence that will accompany the establishment of such facilities--but from what I've read so far, it seems to be working.

    One thing I will admit though is that while I like some progressive ideas, quite often I don't really like the progressives I meet. (Which I admit has not been many, of late.) They often come across to me as being ruthless and uncompromising in their pursuit of their goals. Hicks, are you familiar with Jonathan Haidt's moral foundations theory? The basic idea is that members of various political orientations make decisions based on different sets of morals. The moral foundations he identified are

    1) Care for Others/Do no harm
    2) Fairness/Justice/Equality
    3) In-Group Loyalty
    4) Respect for Authority
    5) Purity

    According to his research, Liberals tend to care most about the first two domains and find the others less relevant; conservatives tend to value all five equally. (For anyone reading this... I realize I have given only a superficial description of this theory. If I have gotten anything wrong, feel free to correct me.)

    With regard to being an ISFJ, I think it seems to naturally fit ISFJ preferences and values to align somewhat more with all give of the domains. Also, ISFJs prefer to stick with established systems and practices unless they see these can be improved upon. That would seem to hew more to (personally) conservative behavior, if not necessarily conservative politics.

    Oh hell, maybe I'm not making much sense here connecting these ideas.
    teddy564339 and HIX thanked this post.


     

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