[ISFJ] Hi me and my mom are complete opposites and driving each other into madness. Help!

Hi me and my mom are complete opposites and driving each other into madness. Help!

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This is a discussion on Hi me and my mom are complete opposites and driving each other into madness. Help! within the ISFJ Forum - The Nurturers forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; I'm an ENTP and my mom is most certainly and ISFJ. I came out to her as gay a couple ...

  1. #1
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Hi me and my mom are complete opposites and driving each other into madness. Help!

    I'm an ENTP and my mom is most certainly and ISFJ. I came out to her as gay a couple of years ago and she is a card carrying member of the fundamentalists christians.

    Ever since I came out she has been doing a wonderful job of pushing me away suggesting that I turn away from being gay. She tried to get me to watch some documentary about someone who was brought out of homosexuality. She made the condition before trying to get me to watch it that I was not to get angry. in fact whenever I come to my own defense about the matter I am a bad guy and I am laden with emotional blackmail and a good bit of crying.

    I am almost at my wits end with this foolishness. It has already cost my psyche to break twice after living a lie for 20 years. I refuse to go crazy again following this sick and delusional cycle.

    I hate to hurt her feelings but this whole routine is getting old and I'm about to crack.

    Does anybody know anything that can help?
    Opus thanked this post.



  2. #2
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    When she suggests moronic things, tell her you will pray for her. lol I hope her narrow-minded faith doesn't drive you away from your own faith and seeking out the truth for yourself. I honestly wouldn't have a problem if one of my sons told me he was gay. My response would be "well at least I don't have to worry about you getting anyone pregnant!"

    Are you living on your own? If not, I think that is the first thing you should focus on (but for heaven's sake if you are in college DON'T DROP OUT.) Your sanity will thank you. I know you are severely hurt, but I think you need to find a path in healing that works for you. Humor can be a great guard to your sanity.

  3. #3
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    Quote Originally Posted by Legendary_Ace View Post
    I'm an ENTP and my mom is most certainly and ISFJ. I came out to her as gay a couple of years ago and she is a card carrying member of the fundamentalists christians.

    Ever since I came out she has been doing a wonderful job of pushing me away suggesting that I turn away from being gay. She tried to get me to watch some documentary about someone who was brought out of homosexuality. She made the condition before trying to get me to watch it that I was not to get angry. in fact whenever I come to my own defense about the matter I am a bad guy and I am laden with emotional blackmail and a good bit of crying.

    I am almost at my wits end with this foolishness. It has already cost my psyche to break twice after living a lie for 20 years. I refuse to go crazy again following this sick and delusional cycle.

    I hate to hurt her feelings but this whole routine is getting old and I'm about to crack.

    Does anybody know anything that can help?
    With stubborn people, I think you have to be prepared to participate in long-drawn out and possibly hurtful discussions to get them to see your POV. Try not to belittle her beliefs, but don't back down from showing the hypocrisy on the way that some Christians practice their faith. There's a lot of that to go around. Also, use lots and lots of research. Few people can simply shrug off facts or well-researched articles, even regarding religion, and it shows an effort at trying to communicate and understanding the difference of opinion.

    There's cases of fundamentalist Christians going moderate because of their LGBT kids.

    Hurt feelings may not be avoidable. It's something you might have to come to terms with. And if hurting her feelings a bit is the only way to get through to her, than you may need to take that route anyway.

    Making it clear you're challenging her interpretation of the bible and not actual faith might help. Point out she's human and so is everyone else in her religious community. They're bound to get things wrong. People have been arguing about the bible forever and the way the community has viewed topics has changed with the times.

    I think literalism and Leviticus need to be your key points. Literalism in Christianity does not work. Not with everything the bible says about living your life and with how modern society works today. ...Unless you're Amish or something and completely segregate yourself from society. Alarming things in Leviticus; literal interpretations advocates things like killing non-believers, forbid wearing mixed fabric clothing (most modern clothes) and eating pork as well as basically permitting slavery. Banned by the Bible | 76 things banned in Leviticus

    You should also make her watch a documentary on how gay-conversion therapy and camps tends to put stress on the individual and are wildly unsuccessful. And I'm pretty sure there's lots of articles and websites stating that being gay is not a mental illness (not even mentioning the official stances of the Psychological and Medical associations of America).



    Repressing your homosexuality is not the answer and make it clear to her that you're not going to put up with her trying to convert you. It's too damaging to your psyche and unhealthy.

    Ultimately, even with all the evidence and long-drawn arguments, she may still not accept you. I'm gay and I know when I come out some of family are not going to accept me either. They're just not willing to listen. You need to prepare yourself for other options just in case; like Shale said, think about getting your own place or rooming with friends and stay in school. Maybe other relatives. Research any and everything about gay kids striking it out on their own. Their may even be gay help centers in your area for cases just like yours. Remind yourself that just because she doesn't accept you right away, does not mean she won't come around later (like one of the ladies in the documentary).

    Hope that helps.
    Sabotage thanked this post.

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  5. #4
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    My beliefs are so different from your mom's, I really can't understand her mindset at all on this matter. So I have no advice on how you can get through to her or get her to stop her campaign against your sexuality. Practically speaking, if she is providing you housing and paying your expenses right now, it would be wise to keep your sexuality completely private. If push comes to shove, you could end up without a place to live. No exaggeration. So keep that side of your life out of view and agree to disagree. One day when you're moved out, it'll be safer to live your life openly and she won't be able to hurt you for it.
    SimpleSauropod thanked this post.

  6. #5
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    Have her watch this:


  7. #6
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    First, how do you know she's ISFJ? After watching this forum for a few months, I've noticed there's a lot of problems with "ISFJ mom", and never any problems with "ISFJ dad, uncle, brother, etc." It seems like a lot of mom's just get thrown into the ISFJ bucket because they do things like enforce rules with their kids. I'm not saying she isn't--just be careful to be unbiased in determining type.

    Second, I would try to take the emotion away from the situation and objectively understand your opponent (probably easier for you than an ISFJ!) You say she's fundamentalist Christian and wants you to turn away from being gay. Why is she so adamant? Probably because she believes homosexuality is sin, and unrepented sin leads to hell--and the thought that someone she loves might end up there is both terrifying and heartbreaking.

    Hopefully, the fact that her motivation is love will give you a little more patience since it sounds like you need some. Make up your mind what you believe about all those things, and tell her. Let her know it's solely YOUR choice, and it's NOT up for debate. Fighting over it is causing you unnecessary stress and anguish, and that is unacceptable to you. If it continues, you'll have to push away for your own sanity. And let her know you love her, too.
    Shale, Lady O.W. Bro and EmileeArsenic thanked this post.

  8. #7
    INFJ - The Protectors


    Time. Just live and love responsibly.

  9. #8
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    I love this post!

    Quote Originally Posted by desert lynx View Post
    First, how do you know she's ISFJ? After watching this forum for a few months, I've noticed there's a lot of problems with "ISFJ mom", and never any problems with "ISFJ dad, uncle, brother, etc." It seems like a lot of mom's just get thrown into the ISFJ bucket because they do things like enforce rules with their kids. I'm not saying she isn't--just be careful to be unbiased in determining type.
    I'm seeing the trend in this too. Always the intuitive child having trouble with a sensor parent. You never see anyone having trouble with an intuitive parent, but I think that is because sensors are unrepresented in this forum (or forums in general.) Just because one HAS a mother and has problems with her, doesn't mean she is an ISFJ (I think I need to write that in my signature. lol)

    Second, I would try to take the emotion away from the situation and objectively understand your opponent (probably easier for you than an ISFJ!) You say she's fundamentalist Christian and wants you to turn away from being gay. Why is she so adamant? Probably because she believes homosexuality is sin, and unrepented sin leads to hell--and the thought that someone she loves might end up there is both terrifying and heartbreaking.
    I think the ISFJ parent always wants what is in the best interest of their child. Most parents I know are fiercely protective of their children's well being (regardless of MBTI), so the last sentence would probably ring true for someone who is dogmatically conservative in religion. Still, it doesn't make it okay. I would suggest talking to her openly about her feelings on the subject to get that better understanding. At the same time, I would equip myself with more fundamental Christian knowledge such as: The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against God. All other "sins" are forgiven (one doesn't even need to be a Christian to enter heaven either, there are many paths to the same destination. Admitting you are Christian is more like reassurance you will get into heaven.)

    Everyone has some beef with their parents. Heck, I wonder what blame my own children will place on me. What the OP needs to know is that she is doing the best SHE can. I had a very good childhood, but I had to understand my own mother's past to understand she was doing the best she could ... when I felt she was falling short in certain areas of my well-being. Of course now that I understand her, I wish she was alive for me to tell her how proud I am of her ... b/c even though she came from a horribly abusive childhood, she did a wonderful job as a parent with little to no role-modeling. Was she perfect? I didn't think so then, but now that I am a parent I have a better understanding of the choices she made for me.
    SimpleSauropod thanked this post.

  10. #9
    ISFP - The Artists

    I see this as more a problem with how she interprets Christianity, not her personality. Yes, personality does factor into how she perceives the world, but I have an ISFJ Christian(or possibly Deist now) mother-in-law who is very accepting of gays, and has gay close friends.
    My advice would be to stay true to yourself. You can't change your mother(or her views) if she doesn't want to be changed, but you do have ultimate control over how you live your life. Stay strong, and don't let her influence you negatively.

  11. #10
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    I'm really sorry that you're experiencing this. Being an agnostic in a very Bible-thumping Christian family, I totally get the pressure that they can put on you and how defective they can make you feel simply for being who you are if you don't fit into their little box. This isn't strictly an SJ thing, it's usually a devout religious thing, and it sucks when it's aimed at you. Perhaps you should let her know that you're comfortable and happy with your sexuality and that the more she tries to force her viewpoint on you, the less likely you are to listen to her, and the further away she's pushing you, and that no matter how much time she spends in communication with God, nothing is going to pray your gay away. It's part of you and it's been there for as long as you can remember.

    Might also be nice to have some verses about compassion and how it's not for humans to judge at your disposal during this. Fight fire with fire.

    She puts stipulations on how you're allowed to feel in certain situations, so you should do the same. Tell her (if you actually intend to do this, that is, and are fully committed to it) that you'd be willing to go out to lunch and have this conversation once and for all, beginning to end, and that once it's over, you don't want to hear it any more. That's it and that's how it'll stay. Allow her to give all of her viewpoints, and then give yours and whatever conclusion is come to at the end is where it stays.

    When the conversation is over, and things are back to normal, if she starts up again, you can go "We agreed at that lunch that we weren't going to keep going over this. I am now and have always been and will always be gay, and I'd rather you not keep on me about it because it makes me feel like you no longer see me as your son, but an enemy or a sinner who is to be converted."

    Good for you for coming out of the closet, though.



    If all else utterly fails, you can always blast The Smits - How Soon Is Now and enthusiastically lipsynch along to the part that goes

    "You shut your mouth
    How can you say
    I go about things the wrong way?
    I am human and I need to be loved
    Just like everybody else does "

    It'll have both the lyrical impact as it sums up the situation perfectly and Morissey is like the prince of depression, so it'll be obvious that this is seriously bothering you... becasue Morissey... I don't think that man has ever been happy for more than maybe three minutes at a stretch.


     

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