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This is a discussion on Ask an ISFJ a Question within the ISFJ Forum - The Nurturers forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; Originally Posted by jeb I am INTJ Type 2 (which is not common), and I struggle with validation as well. ...

  1. #11
    Unknown Personality

    Quote Originally Posted by jeb View Post
    I am INTJ Type 2 (which is not common), and I struggle with validation as well. I'm not sure if this is because I am just unhealthy in my type or depressed, or if this is something that could be related to being a Type 2.
    I know you weren't asking me but I'd say the Enneagram tells much more about your behavior than the MBTI does. Being 6w5 describes me much better than being an ISFJ - especially since I'm kind of balanced on both I/E and F/T. So yeah, it's probably the Enneagram type. There are also a lot of genetic and environmental factors that the MBTI doesn't take into consideration, e.g. your early childhood experiences, your socialization, your cultural background, possible mental illnesses etc.etc.
    Leninalovesu and jeb thanked this post.

  2. #12
    INTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by izebize View Post
    I can only speak for myself: I do need these things. Not on an everyday basis, though. But if someone never makes me feel like I do my "job" well (not just in workplace settings, but in relationships and stuff), then I'll start to think that they're not satisfied with me, and then my inferior Ne kicks in and I'm panicking. These validations don't need to be words (for Words of Affirmation is my least used love language), but for example hugs, smiles, small gifts, etc. AND most importantly, lack of criticism. Especially harsh criticism. It might just be my bad childhood memories, but if I'm criticized I go into fight-or-flight mode and my mind just gets screwed up. I'm open to constructive criticism though, if it's done in a smooth and peaceful way, and if the other person seems to be truly interested in helping me overcome my flaws, and not just throwing sh*t at me because they feel like they're entitled to do it. And yeah, of course I treat people the same way.
    So I typed out a reply to you but my work internet cut out and now I've got to use my phone

    Thanks for the reply. Criticism is something that is difficult for a lot of people, and its always nice to see when people can see the difference with constructive criticism being from a place of caring and helpfulness... as long as they provide a solution for you, that is ;)

    Do you ever feel needy about being validation? Our, guilt from it? Does anyone ever give you a hard time about it? If so, how do you process and deal with that?

    Quote Originally Posted by izebize View Post
    ps. your avatar is awesome. (And you don't even go here :P)
    Haha thanks. I put it on there for a Mean Girls themed Mafia game on the forums and I think I'll end up keeping it

  3. #13
    INTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by izebize View Post
    I know you weren't asking me but I'd say the Enneagram tells much more about your behavior than the MBTI does. Being 6w5 describes me much better than being an ISFJ - especially since I'm kind of balanced on both I/E and F/T. So yeah, it's probably the Enneagram type. There are also a lot of genetic and environmental factors that the MBTI doesn't take into consideration, e.g. your early childhood experiences, your socialization, your cultural background, possible mental illnesses etc.etc.
    Okay thanks. I had a couple weeks recently where I thought I may have been mistyped, but nothing else MBTI wise made sense. It has to come from the type 2ness and the reasons you gave.

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  5. #14
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    Usually verbal, but I find gestures just as reassuring. I like physical gestures, like hugs and hand holding, but I find verbal validation lasts longer, if I feel myself start to dip into that 'I feel unappreciated and a bit meanginless' I think, wait a minute, so-and-so said that, and it was only the other day! I can't have changed since then!

    I'm sorry, I'm not familiar enough with types to be able to answer that for you :S but I will say I think it's a mistake to think that depression is unique to a type. I've had my times of depression, and I think there are definitely factors relating to type that make you more prone, but there's a lot more to depression than just type or whether or not you're healthy. And I say that having thought all that WAS the case when I was at my lowest!

    Have you always had this struggle or is this a new thing that's just cropped? Has something changed in your life that you think might have triggered the extra need for validation??

    I find it varies for me, I think it ties in a lot with me being a girl as well, with hormonal levels changing on a regular basis, but also what's going on in my environment, and the weather. In September I was quite happily bouncing around needing validation only so often, but come March when exams were on the horizon I really struggled and needed almost daily support from home.
    jeb thanked this post.

  6. #15
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    Quote Originally Posted by jeb View Post
    I have lots of questions. I guess I'll first ask about something I read in the ISFJ descriptions and then saw a bit of when lurking your forum. It seems as though validation or expressed appreciation is something that ISFJs need. If that is something that you can relate to - do you think you need it from everyone, or from specific people? How do you want people to go about expressing these things to you? Do you offer the same in return to the people you need it from?
    I think everyone needs positive reinforcement to a degree. I like the occasional pat on the back acknowledgement, and that is good enough for me. I feel positive from SEEING the effects of a job that I did well, and don't expect validation (except from my husband and kids.) I effortlessly acknowledge others on a regular basis, and even though it might not seem I receive as much as I give ... I still think about perspective in the sense that others have their own idea on what constitutes a job well done.
    jeb, candijoy and daughter thanked this post.

  7. #16
    Unknown Personality

    Quote Originally Posted by jeb View Post
    Do you ever feel needy about being validation? Our, guilt from it? Does anyone ever give you a hard time about it? If so, how do you process and deal with that?
    Oh, tell me about it... it caused me to "break up" with my best friend of 8 years. I believe she was an INFP and it turned out that when she is under stress, she mocks and insults the people close to her. Long story short, this first (and last) mocking session happened when I was also under a lot of stress and I needed her support more than ever. Instead, she gave me criticism for being "too emotional". So there goes our friendship. I guess the main problem was that she didn't even realize she was hurting me. She apologized, but I could feel there was nothing behind it. This is the thing I can't deal with. It shows such a major lack of self-awareness that the whole relationship becomes hopeless in my eyes. (To be fair, we were both immature about it and I miss her dearly, I'm thinking of contacting her but I feel like our friendship will never be the same after this.)
    Otherwise I only befriend people who share the same needs so there's no drama about this. The only one who gets pissed off by me is my sister (ENTP). Now she can be a pretty bad one if she loses it, and it happens a lot. Then I'll just wait for the storm to pass :P But when she's nice, she's super cuddly and giggly and supportive, so I forgive easily :D

    Quote Originally Posted by jeb View Post
    Haha thanks. I put it on there for a Mean Girls themed Mafia game on the forums and I think I'll end up keeping it
    YOU GO GLEN COCO!!!
    jeb, candijoy and cheapsunglasses thanked this post.

  8. #17
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    Quote Originally Posted by jeb View Post
    I have lots of questions. I guess I'll first ask about something I read in the ISFJ descriptions and then saw a bit of when lurking your forum. It seems as though validation or expressed appreciation is something that ISFJs need. If that is something that you can relate to - do you think you need it from everyone, or from specific people? How do you want people to go about expressing these things to you? Do you offer the same in return to the people you need it from?

    I definitely feel like it's something I need. I don't ask for anything else in return. I don't want anyone to do me a favor, I don't want them to do the same services to me that I have done for them. I just want them to acknowledge that I go over and beyond to help them out in any way that I can. I do not feel like I need it from everyone but I do need it with people I am close with. That includes friends and family and especially my SO.

    I'd prefer people to express their appreciation for me by just stating it once and awhile. (partners a little more often lol). "You are so helpful. God will bless you. Thanks for always being there for when I need you. I love you" Things like this would melt my heart. It validates that they are not taking advantage of me.

    jeb, candijoy and daughter thanked this post.

  9. #18
    INTJ

    ISFJs - do you guys find yourself to be facially expressive?

    What is it like for you to interact with someone who is more stoic?

  10. #19
    INTP - The Thinkers

    afirmations

    Quote Originally Posted by Fynest One View Post
    I definitely feel like it's something I need. I don't ask for anything else in return. I don't want anyone to do me a favor, I don't want them to do the same services to me that I have done for them. I just want them to acknowledge that I go over and beyond to help them out in any way that I can. I do not feel like I need it from everyone but I do need it with people I am close with. That includes friends and family and especially my SO.

    I'd prefer people to express their appreciation for me by just stating it once and awhile. (partners a little more often lol). "You are so helpful. God will bless you. Thanks for always being there for when I need you. I love you" Things like this would melt my heart. It validates that they are not taking advantage of me.

    I have an ISFJ friend and she is always so helpful. I don't take advantage of her, but whenever she does help me with something, she goes way above and beyond what I'd expect. I want her to know how much I really appreciate all that she does for me. I always thank her for what she does, when she does it, but I often feel like she wants or expects more than just a "thank you" from me. I've given her little gifts or cards, but those seem to embarrass her and are usually barely acknowledged, so I think that gifts are probably not her love language. What does seem to make her happy in these instances is some sort of personal confession on how what she's done has specifically meant to me (like how it helped my mom be on time, or how I couldn't have gotten my car fixed without her), or an acknowledgement of how much she personally means to me as her friend.

    I need some ISFJ help here :) Are these personal stories what makes you feel appreciated? Or something else? And how often? eveytime? every 5 times? (yeah, I'm probably supposed to be able to figure out how often on my own, but, hey, INTP here. We don't read people very well sometimes.)

    As an introvert and a thinker, a "thank you" is usually more than I expect, so the personal touch is something that doesn't come natural to me. But, I am willing to try because I think she is a lovely person who deserves to be seen and appreciated for the wonderful person that she is. I can't fix everyone's rudeness, but at least I'd like to understand what I can do to help her feel more appreciated by me. Thanks for any ideas.
    Sweetish, enitsirp, Fynest One and 2 others thanked this post.

  11. #20
    INTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Fynest One View Post
    I definitely feel like it's something I need. I don't ask for anything else in return. I don't want anyone to do me a favor, I don't want them to do the same services to me that I have done for them. I just want them to acknowledge that I go over and beyond to help them out in any way that I can. I do not feel like I need it from everyone but I do need it with people I am close with. That includes friends and family and especially my SO.
    I can relate a lot to this. Have you ever had anyone react like it was too much to ask of them?


     
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