[ISTJ] A curious case of a half-Feeler ISTJ? - Page 2

A curious case of a half-Feeler ISTJ?

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This is a discussion on A curious case of a half-Feeler ISTJ? within the ISTJ Forum - The Duty Fulfillers forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; Originally Posted by grumpytiger Yeah the INTJs don't think that way, they have a bit more of a conceptual flair. ...

  1. #11
    ISTJ - The Duty Fulfillers

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpytiger View Post

    Yeah the INTJs don't think that way, they have a bit more of a conceptual flair. Lol, weird you'd get INTJ in tests though. (I don't think you are N at all, yeah, agreed there.)
    It's really self-reporting anyway, and I know that regardless of what a test may or may not say that I'm clearly an ISTJ.
    grumpytiger thanked this post.

  2. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpytiger View Post
    I think we started discussing this in my type thread and my impression is that you do it differently from me. Like here too, you keep talking about concepts and of "can" possibilities. This is N to me.

    Btw, "if A can give birth to B then B must be true" isn't correct. "Can" isn't a clear logical and factual statement where things actually do follow, "can" is just a possibility.
    I probably worded it unclearly. I meant let's say I input data into a system. Then, I build a report based on that data. I make sure the components of the report actually work. The report summarizes the data into large lumps (however it's based off the initial data inputted). While the end result (B, aka report) looks different from the data inputted (A, aka initial data), I can conclude that the report is reliable as long as the data is valid. That's how my line of thinking works when I need to figure out something.

  3. #13

    Fun fact: Feelers typically see me as a heartless cyborg, Thinkers think I'm too sensitive.

    For the latter, they accuse me of this because I do always run away from confrontation. The thing is, it's because I'm horribly anxious and can't handle the fallout or possible fallout of confronting someone. I've always seen it as more of a Si/Te thing though in that confronting people is something that will lead to spontaneous emotional reactions that I won't be able to sit back and and deal with rationally on the spot. I know it's definitely not because I'm afraid of hurting people's feelings (although I don't get off on that either). The rational part of me always knows what needs to be said and done about a certain person or situation, but doing it is a whole other thing. I imagine INTJs might also struggle with this due to Inferior Se. Like, not knowing howto react in the moment when a confrontation gets heated. Hell, IxFJs are probably better at it due to sharper social skills.
    Librarian and nep2une thanked this post.

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  5. #14

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevester View Post
    Fun fact: Feelers typically see me as a heartless cyborg, Thinkers think I'm too sensitive.

    For the latter, they accuse me of this because I do always run away from confrontation. The thing is, it's because I'm horribly anxious and can't handle the fallout or possible fallout of confronting someone. I've always seen it as more of a Si/Te thing though in that confronting people is something that will lead to spontaneous emotional reactions that I won't be able to sit back and and deal with rationally on the spot. I know it's definitely not because I'm afraid of hurting people's feelings (although I don't get off on that either). The rational part of me always knows what needs to be said and done about a certain person or situation, but doing it is a whole other thing. I imagine INTJs might also struggle with this due to Inferior Se. Like, not knowing howto react in the moment when a confrontation gets heated. Hell, IxFJs are probably better at it due to sharper social skills.
    Some thinkers just think ISTJs have sticks up their butts I can see why you would avoid confrontation for that reason. I donít normally pick arguments because I expect most people to react horribly emotional to whatever I say. If I know the person well enough I tend to be more comfortable with confrontation and debating things. I donít think any of us with tertiary or inferior Fi/Fe are really equipped to deal with emotional confrontation.

    I can confirm that IxFJs are better at dealing with confrontation than an ISTJ, or maybe just that I have more confrontations with my INFJ friend than I do with my ISTJ friend. When I get into an argument with my INFJ friend , my ISTJ friend takes a step back from the situation or tries to diffuse it. My ISTJ friend and INFJ friend also canít seem to have a proper conversation unless Iím there, according to my INFJ friend, and according to my ISTJ friend she didnít even realize they had conversations with each other when I wasnít there.

    I can say that my ISTJ friend seems to more readily accept looking at things from another point of view when I point things out to her and sheís more open to at least hearing my ideas (which I appreciate because sheís such a prickler with rules and how things get done.) I donít normally have confrontations with her.

    Anyway I just thought Iíd pitch in an outside view of things for you all to mull over.
    Librarian thanked this post.

  6. #15
    Unknown

    I just do not voice my opinions, keep them to myself ... save the hassle. Too much Fe around me. Poeple view me rather as kind and polite and not as hearthless due to that. They just have no idea ...However it is a bit like wearing a mask and not quite being myself.

    As for test results.
    They are quite useless.
    I usually score super high on I and S. T/F varies but its slightly more on T side. J/P is almost 50/50 for me. First time i took 16p test i got an ISFP .. nope its not me. Lack of ambition is only thing which was fitting ;p
    I have read a lot on cognitve functions, i relate to SI very much, definetly Te/fi judging axis with very low N. I typed myself mostly based on that, since descriptions dont fit me that much
    Last edited by Elwinz; 03-27-2018 at 01:09 PM.

  7. #16

    Quote Originally Posted by AllyKat View Post
    Can you expand on your reasoning here? Why more N than S? Where do you see 'low sensing for perceiving things'?
    Sorry for the delay in responding, I will explain in detail as soon as I get more time for the forum (next week at the latest).


    Quote Originally Posted by Bunniculla View Post
    I probably worded it unclearly. I meant let's say I input data into a system. Then, I build a report based on that data. I make sure the components of the report actually work. The report summarizes the data into large lumps (however it's based off the initial data inputted). While the end result (B, aka report) looks different from the data inputted (A, aka initial data), I can conclude that the report is reliable as long as the data is valid. That's how my line of thinking works when I need to figure out something.
    Yeah it was not worded with anal precision.

    OK, so, I'd say that the report (B as end result) is valid if the data and the reasoning or method used to produce B are all valid. If this is what you wanted to say, OK, but you clearly put it in a different way. You are kind of more verbose about reasoning than I am and more focused on conceptual possibilities/constructs is what it comes off to me. My perception anyhow if you don't mind my input, if you are still open about the type topic.
    AllyKat, Librarian and Bunniculla thanked this post.

  8. #17

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpytiger View Post
    The bolded + your feely avatar... You are INFJ.

    The differences you see with the ISTJ relative probably relate to the differences between ST and NF.
    "Feely" avatar? How is it feely (yes, I know its just your opinion, just curious why), and why is that any proof of INFJ? Many INFJs have what you could label "thinky" avatars. Perhaps because of Ti. Like how Fi is often the reason an ISTJ does something a bit "feely."

    Are you saying that an INFJ who scores 49/ T and 51/F is a thinker, or ISTJ if they also have a middle ground between sensing and intuition?

    Back to the OP and what you bolded as INFJ:

    As you can see, I got pretty borderline results for the second and third scales, I'm basically half-Feeler! But that's not much of a surprise to me and kinda gave me closure; because I'm closely connectied to my emotions, and I can easily pick up, understand and be considerate of others'.

    Being considerate of others is a simple thing to be, Fe goes further than that. She also says MY emotions. So she could be INFJ, but this portion doesn't give me basis to believe it since there is possible Fi as much as Fe, at least.

    I'm drawn to more assertive people. I am emotional and sensitive myself, but I donít let feelings affect my decisions and I rationalise everything even when I remain to be emotional about things/situations (I can't help but feel certain ways sometimes, even when they're irrational).

    "Don't let feelings affect my decisions." Not a feeler thing to say, though to be fair, feelers will generally say group values and feelings affect decisions. A thinker, though, seldom has a problem calling out "emotion" or describing such emotion as "irrational." Feelers (especially Fe) generally won't label something that has value/importance to others (like emotion) as a clear negative.

    She then says she relates to many ISTJ traits, whilst many ISTJ traits aren't relatable to INFJs (opposite functions.) And she says she can clearly see most ISTJ traits within herself. So I wouldn't be so quick to jump on INFJ, not in the least.

    One thing I've learned is ISTJs don't come in just one flavor, no type does. I often find myself relating to what @AllyKat posts, for example, and I had a similar experience with mistyping as INTJ. I mean, if she was INTJ, that's fine too, but I still know I'm not one, even if I still related to her posts if she said she was one. Maybe it just means I'm an ISTJ a bit more connected to Ne. Doesn't change the fact that I'm ISTJ.

    I tend to think each ISTJ on here, for the most part, is a clear ISTJ, with some focusing on different things at times.
    AllyKat thanked this post.

  9. #18
    Unknown


    Feelers (especially Fe) generally won't label something that has value/importance to others (like emotion) as a clear negative.
    Just gonna verify this as accurate.

    While I filter emotion through Ti (rational/irrational), the Fe aspect allows me to engage someone in the moment and know what to do to help them if I care about them. If I see someone crying, I will first try to determine if what they're crying about is worth it to actually be crying about before I decide to extend my sympathy and support. I just won't look at tears and be like "yeah, they need a hug". I'll look at tears and be like "why are they crying? Are they trying to manipulate a situation in their favor i.e. crocodile tears?"

    A quick 5 second analysis occurs and then I can go either way. If someone is crying because they stubbed their toe and it didn't break, I'm kinda more likely to just laugh my ass off.

    But if someone's crying because their best friend died, I will hug them and comfort them if that's what they respond to. If they're not the touchy feely type, then I will give them space and just let them cry and wait patiently till they're ready to talk.
    Librarian thanked this post.

  10. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by AllyKat View Post
    Can you expand on your reasoning here? Why more N than S? Where do you see 'low sensing for perceiving things'?
    OK, so in another thread you were saying you have to put together the sensory details of the situation by reasoning e.g. when recalling something. And I commented that it seems like a very slow process to access Sensory perception.

    Then you added that you are quite eclectic, and are very focused on improving stuff. Those together really sounded INTJ to me along with the slow process as above. I find a big difference between INTJ and ISTJ is that. Even though these two types have quite some similarities otherwise. My INTJ friend commented once that she can't imagine how her ISTJ bf can just superficially "glide" about things in the environment. I mean, superficial compared to her. I'm the same way as her bf, too with Sensing. She's instead very very detailed and slow in the attempt to access and build up her sensory awareness instead. She's overall quite detail oriented but in a different way than me. Her way is closer to non-typical (also not "neurotypical", she's borderline Aspergers). Another difference I see between us is that she's way more easily attracted to weird stuff, weird ideas and observations about things. I find her quite fun in a sense overall, though, just that gets a bit too weird sometimes lol (don't get me wrong, I'm not judging her for it!).

    I hope that made sense, let me know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
    "Feely" avatar? How is it feely (yes, I know its just your opinion, just curious why), and why is that any proof of INFJ? Many INFJs have what you could label "thinky" avatars. Perhaps because of Ti. Like how Fi is often the reason an ISTJ does something a bit "feely."
    Nah it was not part of the main argument, the main argument was the bolded stuff. The avatar just reminded me of some INFJs I've known, but I'm not going to type anyone just based on that lol.


    Are you saying that an INFJ who scores 49/ T and 51/F is a thinker, or ISTJ if they also have a middle ground between sensing and intuition?
    No, I never said that.


    Back to the OP and what you bolded as INFJ:

    As you can see, I got pretty borderline results for the second and third scales, I'm basically half-Feeler! But that's not much of a surprise to me and kinda gave me closure; because I'm closely connectied to my emotions, and I can easily pick up, understand and be considerate of others'.

    Being considerate of others is a simple thing to be, Fe goes further than that. She also says MY emotions. So she could be INFJ, but this portion doesn't give me basis to believe it since there is possible Fi as much as Fe, at least.
    I hope you are not claiming that INFJs can never talk about "my emotions".

    Being considerate of others - depends what you mean by that. If you just mean basic rules on politeness, sure, that's simple enough. If you mean tuning into what others feel and operate based on that, not so simple to me.

    Don't forget to include this bit in your evaluation of the OP's post: "I can easily pick up, understand and be considerate of others' [emotions]". She basically said she easily tunes into the feelings of others. Fe, right?...


    I'm drawn to more assertive people. I am emotional and sensitive myself, but I don’t let feelings affect my decisions and I rationalise everything even when I remain to be emotional about things/situations (I can't help but feel certain ways sometimes, even when they're irrational).

    "Don't let feelings affect my decisions." Not a feeler thing to say, though to be fair, feelers will generally say group values and feelings affect decisions. A thinker, though, seldom has a problem calling out "emotion" or describing such emotion as "irrational." Feelers (especially Fe) generally won't label something that has value/importance to others (like emotion) as a clear negative.
    I don't automatically call emotion irrational. I can call an emotion of mine inconsequential but I don't ever call it irrational just because it's an emotion. Emotions arise from a type of judgment on the situation. It's only irrational if someone gets to forget about other aspects of the situation and so does not fully evaluate it in a realistic way. Emotion can be very rational and realistic otherwise as part of a complete appraisal of a situation, especially if it's a social or otherwise people-related or otherwise personal situation. A Thinker will be irrational just fine too if they forget about their emotions too much and thus let themselves and their own supposedly logical thought processes be unconsciously affected by the ignored emotions.

    I've heard INFJ say that before about not letting emotions affect her in some things. One of the INFJs I know (and btw it's the one I've had problems with if you remember our talk on this topic before) keeps saying she dislikes it if people are emotional. Maybe hard to see how an ENFJ would say that sort of thing lol, yeah, but INFJ is Ni-dom, not Feeler dominant, right?

    The fun thing is I'd never say what she says, I don't mind it if someone's displaying emotion, no problem, I usually just stay detached anyway, it does not tend to get in my way. The only one thing I can't and won't take is if a Feeler directs negative personal judgment at me for no real reason and wants to hold onto it. I don't tolerate that well.


    She then says she relates to many ISTJ traits, whilst many ISTJ traits aren't relatable to INFJs (opposite functions.) And she says she can clearly see most ISTJ traits within herself. So I wouldn't be so quick to jump on INFJ, not in the least.
    See: "One of my relatives is pretty much a hardcore ISTJ, so when I compare myself to him I see clear differences (it may mostly be associated with the T vs F levels)"

    Don't forget to include this too into your evaluation of the post.


    One thing I've learned is ISTJs don't come in just one flavor, no type does. I often find myself relating to what @AllyKat posts, for example, and I had a similar experience with mistyping as INTJ. I mean, if she was INTJ, that's fine too, but I still know I'm not one, even if I still related to her posts if she said she was one. Maybe it just means I'm an ISTJ a bit more connected to Ne. Doesn't change the fact that I'm ISTJ.
    I don't think any type comes just in one flavour. I find myself relating to my INTJ friend in some ways too, we are both IxTx, for one, we both are very low on Fe, and so on. Our Sensing vs Intuition is quite different though.
    Last edited by grumpytiger; 04-06-2018 at 09:29 AM.

  11. #20

    Quote Originally Posted by DangoKing View Post
    Some thinkers just think ISTJs have sticks up their butts I can see why you would avoid confrontation for that reason. I donít normally pick arguments because I expect most people to react horribly emotional to whatever I say. If I know the person well enough I tend to be more comfortable with confrontation and debating things. I donít think any of us with tertiary or inferior Fi/Fe are really equipped to deal with emotional confrontation.
    There are different kinds of confrontation to me. Is it about some conflict of interest or is it some personal and quite negative judgment directed at me... the former I will deal with just fine, I can just remain detached and not take any of it personally, the latter is a horrible type of confrontation yeah.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reap View Post
    Just gonna verify this as accurate.

    While I filter emotion through Ti (rational/irrational), the Fe aspect allows me to engage someone in the moment and know what to do to help them if I care about them. If I see someone crying, I will first try to determine if what they're crying about is worth it to actually be crying about before I decide to extend my sympathy and support. I just won't look at tears and be like "yeah, they need a hug". I'll look at tears and be like "why are they crying? Are they trying to manipulate a situation in their favor i.e. crocodile tears?"

    A quick 5 second analysis occurs and then I can go either way. If someone is crying because they stubbed their toe and it didn't break, I'm kinda more likely to just laugh my ass off.

    But if someone's crying because their best friend died, I will hug them and comfort them if that's what they respond to. If they're not the touchy feely type, then I will give them space and just let them cry and wait patiently till they're ready to talk.
    Cool stuff, I'm not really good at giving hugs lol or do all this close analysis about emotions of other people.


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