ISTJ logic over emotion - help me understand!

ISTJ logic over emotion - help me understand!

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This is a discussion on ISTJ logic over emotion - help me understand! within the ISTJ Forum - The Duty Fulfillers forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; (burner account so that this person doesnt recognise me) I (ESFP female) was in a relationship with an ISTJ male ...

  1. #1

    ISTJ logic over emotion - help me understand!

    (burner account so that this person doesnt recognise me)

    I (ESFP female) was in a relationship with an ISTJ male for the last half year. We were instantly very attracted to each other and started seeing each other very often. I didn't understand his personality type at the start, so initially we had a lot of little clashes about him not being affectionate enough because I thought he just didn't like me. Eventually I understood and grew to really like his reserved nature and he became very comfortable with me to the point where hes usually not even quiet around me now. We spent the last few months of the relationship having an on and off argument about him moving in with a female friend who I hadnt met before. He was very awkward about us meeting because he didnt see the problem with it and he didnt understand my anxieties about it so it was all communicated very badly. Eventually we had a big break up where I cried and left because I just felt too uncomfortable with the living situation. However I did want us to resolve it and it was just a lot of emotion hitting me. He got very upset too and said he can't keep arguing and being on and off all the time and said he doesnt want to be together as a couple again. As he's never had a girlfriend before he didnt know how to deal with the break up, and as I wanted him back I spoke to his friend and showed him I can be comfortable with her, and then I spent the last month still seeing him and basically acting like his girlfriend but he kept insisting he didnt want to be in a relationship and was trying to treat it as a casual thing. We were extremely happy all month but he kept insisting that we cant be a couple and it just made me very frustrated after I put in so much effort to make up with his friend. Long story short, I told him he should cut me off properly instead of stringing me along if he doesnt want a relationship anymore, so we completely cut each other off and didnt meet for 2 weeks. We didnt text for a few days and he was very upset and not leaving the house etc. I asked him to meet as friends after 2 weeks because I missed him and he agreed, and it ended up in us having sex. After we did it, he kept saying he didnt want to do that and that it's messing with his head and stopping him from moving on. He was very firm with me and just said outright he doesnt want to see me again and cant keep being nice to me because he just spent the last week grieving the relationship thinking it was the last time. He also said he doesnt agree with casual sex at all and that it feels wrong when it's someone you care about.


    I'm not one to cling to relationships at all but this is my first time dating an ISTJ and I just find his response so confusing. I know and can tell he clearly has very strong feelings for me, he told me that he loves me and I've seen how upset he gets whenever we've had a break up, and he even said we cant meet anymore even as friends because hes trying to block me out. I don't understand why he's fighting his emotions so much. He said hes sure we're going to end up arguing over something else again even if we do get back together and that he doesnt want the drama and exhaustion anymore, even though I told him the main issue was the female flat mate but I spoke to her and resolved the tensions that were there. It's really difficult for me to just cut him off or forget him when I know he loves me and has strong feelings for me but he's fighting it for no reason. I know the trust is gone because we did have small break ups and then got back together trying temporary solutions like avoiding her etc before I actually spoke to her and resolved it properly, so he thinks we're just going to break up again if we get back together. That's why he's trying to fight it and he wants to be logical and thinks we arent compatible because of those arguments. I've tried to reiterate to him that all of the arguments were about that one issue and when we're together we are very happy.

    What should I do at this point? I want him back but I feel like I've been stressing him out these last few weeks with the casual sex etc because it's giving him conflicting emotions about breaking up with me, but at the same time he's wanted to do it just as much as I have and I don't understand why he's fighting his emotions so much just for the sake of being logical. Just looking for advice and general thoughts on the situation. He doesn't get angry often and I feel he's starting to get very irritable at me about this situation and it makes me feel like he hates me. I know he does love me but he's feeling annoyed and stressed at how we're going about this break up because us meeting up obviously means he has to actively try not to hold my hand or kiss me etc and he said he thinks I'm manipulating him with the sex, but every time we've met as friends it's happened completely naturally and he's wanted it too. It was just this time after we went 2 weeks apart and he had a week or two to grieve on his own, we had sex but he regretted it straight after and said it was wrong. I just need some help understanding what to do from here. I'm worried that if I do just go no contact and give him space he's going to forget about me and get over the grieving period and there wont be any chance to reconcile because his emotions wont be as strong anymore. Thank you in advance for reading
    L P thanked this post.



  2. #2
    INFP

    Quote Originally Posted by princess123 View Post

    I'm worried that if I do just go no contact and give him space he's going to forget about me and get over the grieving period and there wont be any chance to reconcile because his emotions wont be as strong anymore. Thank you in advance for reading
    That's exactly what he wants though, he wants to move on. Any advice you make is only gonna be counter productive to what he wants.

  3. #3

    I can't speak for your (ex)boyfriend, but I will say this. If you two were in a relationship and he was fully committed, he may not have seen an issue in moving in with this other girl because he had absolutely no interest in a relationship with this person. If I was in his shoes, I'd see you breaking up with me over this as you doubting my loyalty and integrity. I haven't met or had the opportunity to get to know any other ISTJs sadly, but I do think that questioning our loyalty and commitment in a relationship is the fastest way to destroy things.


    If you're sure he wants to be with you, I'd recommend trying to sit down with him, maybe some paper and a pen, and ask him to list down all the things he's worried about and tell him to be completely honest. If he agrees, then you two need to go down the list one item at a time and you need to explain why this problem won't come up or if it might come up, how you'll work around it together.

    After you've gone through the list ask him if he feels better, and if he doesn't ask him what's bothering him and then work to solve that. Repeat this process until he is no longer concerned.

    Then you can go through your concerns and worries and then he can work with you to address your issues.

    Make sure you tell him that you aren't bother by it anymore and that you trust him. If an ISTJ thinks you don't trust them, that will eat away at them. At least in my experience.

    I hope this helps. Please let me know if you try this and how it works.

    ISTJ's, if I made incorrect generalizations, please correct me:)
    GhostWhisperer and jujuchan thanked this post.

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  5. #4

    @princess123

    ISTJ logic over emotion - help me understand!


    I think the answer/reason lies within your OP.

    • We spent the last few months of the relationship having an on and off argument
    • He got very upset too and said he can't keep arguing and being on and off all the time and said he doesn't want to be together as a couple again
    • he kept saying he didn't want to do that and that it's messing with his head and stopping him from moving on
    • I've seen how upset he gets whenever we've had a break up, and he even said we cant meet anymore even as friends because hes trying to block me out.
    • He said hes sure we're going to end up arguing over something else again even if we do get back together



    From what you've described I think this statement says it all. " doesn't want the drama and exhaustion anymore"

    Although not a romantic relationship I can tell you as someone who has spent the last couple of days involved in drama with a family member by marriage that it is totally exhausting. I haven't slept well in several days and the conflict/drama has been eating away at me. (consuming my every thought - I can't stop thinking about it) There is no way I would ever consider being in a relationship with someone that I thought would keep me in this kind of state on a regular or recurring basis. I put a very high value on logic and harmony and loath drama.
    L P, Conterphobia, Sela and 2 others thanked this post.

  6. #5
    INFP

    Quote Originally Posted by jamaix View Post
    @princess123

    ISTJ logic over emotion - help me understand!


    I think the answer/reason lies within your OP.

    • We spent the last few months of the relationship having an on and off argument
    • He got very upset too and said he can't keep arguing and being on and off all the time and said he doesn't want to be together as a couple again
    • he kept saying he didn't want to do that and that it's messing with his head and stopping him from moving on
    • I've seen how upset he gets whenever we've had a break up, and he even said we cant meet anymore even as friends because hes trying to block me out.
    • He said hes sure we're going to end up arguing over something else again even if we do get back together



    From what you've described I think this statement says it all. " doesn't want the drama and exhaustion anymore"
    Well that's weird, if feel like this post just read my mind down to the way it was formatted in my head.
    GhostWhisperer thanked this post.

  7. #6

    I appreciate all of the replies. I did like the idea of sitting down and making a list of all the concerns he has but I think it is too late for him to even consider that now, and the posts about him probably being tired of the drama are setting in for me. I stopped texting him for a whole day (which is a long time because he knows I'll usually try to message him at least once before evening) and then he messaged to check up on me so we are talking as friends but to a very minimum level, just a few messages a day. I am trying to avoid getting too excited and not text first and just let him talk when he wants to. I guess this is just because I'm still part of his habit/routine but he hasn't felt the need to text me as much as he did say a month ago when we initially broke up, so I think he is just gradually phasing me out and getting over me. I don't want to upset him or make him more annoyed at me by blocking him but it is difficult for me knowing he is only messaging me because I'm a part of his daily routine which he's still in the habit of, not because he's changed his mind or anything. Just going to wait it out I suppose but thanks again for all the insightful comments, I definitely needed the reality check.

  8. #7

    First off let me say that this guy is definitely an ISTJ and I just want to applaud you for taking the time to try and understand him.

    Secondly, my brother who I am very close to is also an ISTJ, so here are some things that I know about ISTJ's.

    When they make a decision, they REALLY make a decision. That means he's made the decision that he doesn't want to be a couple anymore. And he is analyzing things based on his own experience. He is observing that there is a trend of breaking up and getting back together. That is the track record you set with him, he didn't set it with you. You are a P so going in and out of relationships isn't going to matter as much to you as it does for him. ISTJ's HATE chaos. They also hate things when nothing is predictable and you have made his life completely unpredictable. That's not a slam on you. At first, he probably loved the spontaneity that you brought to the relationship. It was probably a few months of pure bliss for him. But because you didn't like him moving in with another female (which I think is completely fair) that was the biggest thing to damage the relationship. ISTJ's are remarkably loyal people. He would not have cheated on you, I really hate to say. THAT is why he didn't think it would be a big deal. Because HE knows he wouldn't have cheated and you thought he would because ESFP's are way more opportunistic with feelings than an ISTJ (which is probably the most loyal and steady type). I am not telling you all this to hurt your feelings, but I am telling you this so that you know, because I feel like you would actually like to know this stuff.

    Beyond that, it was almost destiny that you would break up with each other due to the crazy differences in temperament and personality type. Those are VERY hard to overcome in a relationship so don't be too hard on yourself because I don't think you actually did much "wrong" that you could even help.

    As a consolation, I do want to point out that he will probably reflect on this relationship for a long time and it will probably lead to a lot of growth for him down the road and I hope it will do the same for you. Also, like I said, he will probably love thinking of the times you guys spent together when things were going well and reflect on them fondly.

    Best of luck, but I think you need to move on.
    GhostWhisperer thanked this post.

  9. #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Conterphobia View Post
    First off let me say that this guy is definitely an ISTJ and I just want to applaud you for taking the time to try and understand him.
    You sir, slay me. This is hysterical.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamaix View Post
    @princess123

    ISTJ logic over emotion - help me understand!


    I think the answer/reason lies within your OP.

    • We spent the last few months of the relationship having an on and off argument
    • He said hes sure we're going to end up arguing over something else again...



    From what you've described I think this statement says it all. " doesn't want the drama and exhaustion anymore"

    Although not a romantic relationship I can tell you as someone who has spent the last couple of days involved in drama with a family member by marriage that it is totally exhausting. I haven't slept well in several days and the conflict/drama has been eating away at me. (consuming my every thought - I can't stop thinking about it) There is no way I would ever consider being in a relationship with someone that I thought would keep me in this kind of state on a regular or recurring basis. I put a very high value on logic and harmony and loath drama.
    Thank you for pointing those elements out. I think I might be a little more accustomed to this kind of unpredictability (minus the constant breakups) which is why it slipped my mind. The two I listed are some pseudo constants for me with INFP gf, although the biggest trial for me is her bipolar mood swings.
    @princess123
    I sympathize with your situation and wish you the best moving forward.

  10. #9

    So an update:
    We spent the last week just texting as friends and I was playing it really cool by not being too clingy or texting first and he still wanted to talk to me but keeping his distance a bit i.e not texting as much as he used to. I asked him if he would go somewhere with me as friends because I had tickets for a show and no one else to go with, he agreed and we went as friends. This was a full week after our last meet. I was being really normal and happy etc and not awkward or upset just to show him I can be friends. I did initiate holding hands and then hugging gradually and he seemed happy to be affectionate back, but still I didn't mention it or ask any questions about what this means. At the end of the night he asked me to come over and he's the one who initiated sex, and at the end he hugged/kissed me as normal when saying bye just like when we were a couple.

    The next day he just went back to texting me like friends i.e not texting me all day and not being flirty or affectionate, just general how was your day type of stuff. Neither of us has talked about the other day and I don't know if I should ask him if it means we can try dating again or if it was just a one off. Last week he was really frustrated and confused after we had sex and didnt even want to see me, but this time he didn't say anything at all about our relationship status and he didn't seem to be awkward or regretful after. I know he wouldn't use me for sex but I think maybe the distance in the last week has helped him separate sex from emotion so he could do it without feeling too attached?

    From experience I feel like if I ask him "so what does this mean/are we dating then?" it's going to stress him out and make him feel annoyed. However I don't want to be getting strung along either and I'm unsure of what his motive was and what he wants to do from here. I'm reasonably happy after meeting that day but I'm unclear on whether it's going to be like that every time we meet up now. I don't want to scare him off again or ruin the way things have been this past week because it's been quite smooth, but I don't know how else to get clarity.

    Any tips from ISTJs on whether I should ask him directly or just go with the flow and see if maybe he's just looking for consistency between us before having any serious conversations again

  11. #10

    @princess123

    Just wanted you to know I saw your post and you are not being ignored, but I don't have much time right now to properly share my thoughts on your situation. I'm inclined to think that you are right about this
    "maybe he's just looking for consistency between us before having any serious conversations again."

    I think it is important to remember that all any of us can do is speculate as to what he is thinking, feeling, wanting, etc. as our answers will be based upon what each of us might do in a situation similar to the one you've detailed.

    I might come back to this thread later when I have more time if I feel that I can add something that might be helpful to you.




     

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