[ISTP] ISTP Mixed Signals [ISTP-M INTJ-F]

ISTP Mixed Signals [ISTP-M INTJ-F]

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This is a discussion on ISTP Mixed Signals [ISTP-M INTJ-F] within the ISTP Forum - The Mechanics forums, part of the SP's Temperament Forum- The Creators category; Im just going to bullet because it seems like ISTPs read the info better/faster that way But I am an ...

  1. #1

    ISTP Mixed Signals [ISTP-M INTJ-F]

    Im just going to bullet because it seems like ISTPs read the info better/faster that way
    But I am an INTJ female and I tend to over-explain.

    - met my ISTP a year and a half ago at a con. He was quiet and didn't speak much but we became acquaintances
    - Ran into him a month later at another con. Again, quiet and couldn't get much out of him convo wise.
    (recently he admitted that it was weird that he kept randomly running into me through out the weekend at both those cons while everyone else he had to actively seek out)

    - October of this year, he was the first person I ran into at a con. He ended up walking around with me for a bit. And finally started actually talking when we realized that we do have something in common (travel). That opened the floodgates and we spent the entire weekend together wrapped up in our own little world. We just...Clicked.

    -Since then we have met up almost once a week. Hiking, rock climbing, just dinner or hanging out at my place.

    -This is where the mixed signals comes in.
    -There have been no overt moves.
    -I have had to initiate every single meet up. And when I asked him if this was how it was going to be? "Probably. But I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to be"
    - I understand that he's a lone wolf. And I try not to bother him to texts or calls. We've only spoken on the phone twice since October and they were brief.

    - When we're together we tend to gravitate towards each other. Very casual yet intimate? Like he'll always make sure he's sitting next to me when we're in a group. We're usually pressed up on each other when sitting. Our bodies will be turned towards each other even when we're speaking to other people.
    -He's pulled me in for cuddles but that is the extent of our physical relationship and has been a recent development.
    -I know that he's a very sexual creature (as am I) and bi as well. He used to sleep around quite a bit.
    -But we haven't progressed further than super intimate cuddling in bed/on the couch. I understand that this may be a form of intimacy for him but I don't know how he is/was with other partners.
    -His longest relationship is 3 months.

    - When I asked him if he was attracted to me last week he couldn't answer. "There aren't many questions I can't answer but this is one of them. I don't know." (I know I'm attractive but I wanted to know if HE was attracted to me and I was flabbergasted by his response) This convo also happened while he had his arm around my waist and I was pulled flush against him for an hour chatting
    -When asked when I would get to see him again, he suggested coming over to my place (first time) in 2 days. I thought he would get bored just hanging out at home so I suggested an activity. We agreed to meet up for rock climbing in a few days.
    -He ended up coming over earlier than planned and we had a very...domestic day. Just hung out at home and talked for hours, went to the market so he could pick up ingredients, and he made dinner for us.
    -Last night I point blank asked him if I was being friend zoned "No. If I were going to friend zone you I would have done it a while ago"

    Ok SO.
    Is it the fear of commitment?
    The fear of screwing something up?
    I myself am terrified but I don't want to risk losing this opportunity with him.
    Because we work so damn well it's terrifying.
    I dislike that I'm the one that has to initiate everything because it makes me feel like I'm being needy.
    I keep texts to a minimum and give him plenty of personal space.
    He said he'd put in more of an effort to communicate better but that he responds to me more than anyone else.
    He admitted to my sister that sometimes he feels like I'm a mind reader which is nice because he doesn't feel like he has to say a lot and I understand.

    One of my biggest worries is that he just isn't attracted to me on a physical level since I haven't even gotten kisses.
    - But his cuddles are super intimate. And he normally doesn't like/let people touch him at all.
    - We have mentioned that this is an extremely slow burn for both of us
    - Nothing has been defined. I told him I'm not asking for anything right now. But that I did need to know that it wasn't just me. That I wasn't the only one investing in whatever it is that we have. and he agreed that it wasn't just me.
    - I would not be ok to an open/polyamorous relationship. It was a pretty big blow to my confidence when he told me he wasn't sure if he was attracted to me. And I know he has an on/off that he says is an awful person and it's just about the sex, but he hasn't seen her for a while.
    - So where does that leave me? I have no problem with casual sex being just sex but not if I'm planning on a committed relationship.
    - To me...if you're courting me I would not be ok with you sleeping around.
    - But I haven't asked for exclusivity/monogamy because I don't want to scare him off.

    -is he taking it slow because he wants to make sure before committing to anything?

    I know I know, we INTJ's overthink everything.
    But when we fall we fall hard and long term.
    His personality helps tone down my control freak nature.
    And I'm able to get him to relax and smile by anticipating his needs/wants, especially when he's stressed from work, without smothering him.

    So I'm taking it one day at a time with this man. Which for me is incredibly difficult because I'm a planner. But I feel like this slow burn is good in that we are actually building a foundation of friendship and what not without jumping into the bed right away.

    SO do I keep at it or just brush my hands of this?
    Neetee thanked this post.



  2. #2

    Quote Originally Posted by sojoo View Post
    Im just going to bullet because it seems like ISTPs read the info better/faster that way
    Has nothing to do with what we read faster, it's factually faster because less words. Condensing something to its core, to what precisely describes it and not a single bit more, is what I do every day, so it comes naturally, and we kinda expect this convenience. But that's expecting too much, since not everyone has that skill. Your attempt is appreciated; it makes enough of a difference.


    So:

    >> "Probably. But I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to be"

    I had to laugh. Yes, that's one right there. Everything you need to know in one sentence. Just to tease out the deeper implications, in case you missed them: "Want" rules all. You compete with every other activity he could have been doing at that moment, from sleeping or eating to his favourite hobby. This is a compliment, then: You made the top of the list.

    >> "There aren't many questions I can't answer but this is one of them. I don't know."

    Yup. So true it's basically from the stereotype handbook. Since you were flabbergastered, here the issue in a nutshell: He has to think about what he feels. And that's the only way for him to access this. You see the issue? It's like trying simulate an operating system on another operating system. Ridiculously inefficient, so usually you don't bother. But unless you do, the state is <unknown>.

    If you part ways, in a year's time, he'll be able to look back and say he was attracted. A hugely annoying thing >.< But getting this into any sort of real-time mode is hard work. If you want that answer, give him time ... for me it's down to weeks, but that's a lot of progress. October is just a month or two gone. Now that you asked him, I suppose you'll get an answer eventually. Most likely out of the blue (for you), because you can't tell from the outside when the thought process has reached its end. FWIW, it sounds like you have a special place in his life at the moment. Can that be enough?

    (Also, this naturally means the issue's not any one of the issues you listed. It's literally what it says on the tin. Don't know == don't know. And never feel needy for asking, if he doesn't want to, see his first answer. He has no right to hold it against you even if he declines unless you keep insisting after the first no without good reason.)


    Generally: Take literally what he says when it's clear he's being serious (like the above two). And appreciate the honesty(!). Then, if you're a strong J, try to work on your need to control your world and future. You are terrified, but you needn't be (from his perspective). The very best you can do is treat him like a bird: Cage it, and it becomes miserable, build it a perch, and it will return again and again -- and once and if it doesn't, there was nothing you could have done differently that would have led to any outcome you would have wanted.

    Finally, here's a test for yourself while he thinks: Given my above, and all his statements about himself, what it's going to be like, including e.g.

    >> He said he'd put in more of an effort to communicate better but that he responds to me more than anyone else.

    which is also true, I'm pretty sure -- he does treat you like someone who is important to him, to the extent that he can. Assume it won't change. Question: Is this enough for you?
    Last edited by Northern Lights; 12-11-2019 at 07:11 AM.

  3. #3
    ISTP

    Understand that we are introverts, meaning that being outgoing is not our strong suite. We do, however, have our moments, especially when we are in our comfort zone.

    Other than that, I see a red flag. If you are both very sexual creatures and you are attractive, and he has had both opportunity and feminine encouragement, he should have been on you like a starving bulldog in a butcher shop.

    I think he is a lot more “Bi” than he is letting on and you are likely wasting your time.

    There is another possibility. Relationship is a “girl word” used in “girl think.” Women often think along the lines of finding a guy they like and cutting him out of the pack, and getting him to commit to being their exclusive partner (read biological property). To some guys this is akin to getting Dracula to willingly partake in a double shooter of holy water. It ain’t gonna be easy.

    Many men want the freedom to have sexual access to as many women as they can convince to cooperate. Men and women can be biological polar opposites in the mating game. He may not be ready for a relationship. Moreover, he might just be looking for the right guy to come along.

    You might consider showing a little less interest in him and see if he is going to fish or cut bait. I wouldn’t put too much effort into this guy.

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  5. #4
    Unknown


    Assuming he is ISTP, my view is he is simply being honest with you and it's up to you to decide what to do in this relationship. That's his version of respect to you as a person by handing you the driving wheel. He probably isn't sure whether you are ready to go further and he doesn't want to be the one to force things to happen when all seems fine enough now.

    He probably has not made up his mind yet it's normal when he said he didn't know it probably just meant he didn't know yet at the time because we are not good at dealing with our own feelings. I think his "Probably. But I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to be" is an honest answer when he asked himself the same question. His action is his own answer and this fact alone overrides whatever reasons or doubts he can think of.

    All we know for sure is whether we want or don't want to do something and if you want an exact answer about how we feel about someone or something and why, most likely you won't get a direct answer because we honestly don't know and even if we know we are not sure. Even if you get a definitive answer it is likely to be conditional (given what's happened and what's happening now, a yes or no) and subject to change (this we mostly keep to ourselves because it normally hurts people's feelings).

    That's what goes on in my head anyway imagining I were him as ISTP in your situation.
    Rascal01 thanked this post.

  6. #5

    I think it's weird that he claims that he's not sure if he's attracted to you. I've never had this problem where I didn't know if I liked someone, or at the least found them physically appealing. I think the chances are, if he's "not sure" and hasn't tried to kiss you or do anything sexual despite being pressed up against you (by choice) for an hour, he's probably not physically attracted to you. But maybe he wants to be, because he enjoys your company so much.

    Then again, I can't relate very well to your description of him. He sounds very immature to me, honestly.
    Rascal01 thanked this post.

  7. #6

    Quote Originally Posted by letsrunlikecrazy View Post
    I think it's weird that he claims that he's not sure if he's attracted to you. I've never had this problem where I didn't know if I liked someone, or at the least found them physically appealing.
    Wait, that's a difference, though, isn't it? It's perfectly easy to tell if someone is "attractive". Individual preferences aside, there exists a general baseline, and it's a simple matter of comparing the exterior to that. What is entirely different is to make a call whether you in particular are attracted to that person, specifically so on more than a superficial level. There's any number of women around me that are physically appealing. This doesn't mean I'm attracted, being attracted only losely correlates with being physically appealing to begin with, and on top of all that, I'm not necessarily interested in a relationship just because there's attraction. Easy is something else ...

    You truly never found it hard to figure out to which degree you liked a person? Time brings wisdom, but I'm still kicking myself over realising I was in love when I was 20 ... 10 years after the fact.
    Rascal01 thanked this post.

  8. #7
    Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by sojoo
    So I'm taking it one day at a time with this man. Which for me is incredibly difficult because I'm a planner.
    His personality helps tone down my control freak nature.
    That’s Unattractive Central for ISTPs. He lives in his relaxed P world and will never allow you to control him.

    we INTJ's overthink everything
    ISTP-M vs INTJ-F, SP vs NJ. You should really make sure that your candidate is an intuitive type. Trust David Keirsey with this. Unless you can speak from experience that you miss nothing important in the presence of a sensor, and vice versa.

    Opposites attract until they do the opposite.
    Rascal01 thanked this post.

  9. #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
    Wait, that's a difference, though, isn't it? It's perfectly easy to tell if someone is "attractive". Individual preferences aside, there exists a general baseline, and it's a simple matter of comparing the exterior to that. What is entirely different is to make a call whether you in particular are attracted to that person, specifically so on more than a superficial level. There's any number of women around me that are physically appealing. This doesn't mean I'm attracted, being attracted only losely correlates with being physically appealing to begin with, and on top of all that, I'm not necessarily interested in a relationship just because there's attraction. Easy is something else ...

    You truly never found it hard to figure out to which degree you liked a person? Time brings wisdom, but I'm still kicking myself over realising I was in love when I was 20 ... 10 years after the fact.
    I must be quite a simple creature, then. Nope, it's always completely obvious to me whenever I like someone. I'm having a hard time imagining not knowing.
    Northern Lights thanked this post.

  10. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by letsrunlikecrazy View Post
    I must be quite a simple creature, then. Nope, it's always completely obvious to me whenever I like someone. I'm having a hard time imagining not knowing.
    I don't know about you being simple, but it certainly sounds like you're having a much simpler time of it ;) (Envious -- just a little bit.)

    @Neetee : How is she supposed to know if she doesn't try? Anyone will do what they want, I guess, but trusting someone else about who I should be attracted to sounds like a thing that comes right after trusting a stranger to accurately make a pot of coffee and just before trusting my bank clerk to actually recommend the best option. (For me, anyway, not for the bank.)
    letsrunlikecrazy thanked this post.

  11. #10
    Unknown

    I donít consider David Keirsey as a stranger in these matters, and it is no secret that the S/N dichotomy is the most important part of the MBTI for intuitive types, explaining why they feel surrounded by people who lack what they need. Take this conditio sine qua non as due diligence. The condition isnít met here, and the alternative condition isnít met as well at this point in time. Looking for closure should exclude long experimentation with unlikely candidates.


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