[ISTP] Ran into some female behaviour I can't figure out, I'd love to hear your insight!

Ran into some female behaviour I can't figure out, I'd love to hear your insight!

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  1. #1
    ISTP - The Mechanics

    Ran into some female behaviour I can't figure out, I'd love to hear your insight!

    Hi fellow ISTP’ers

    I’d like your insight in a problem I am having. Of course it involves women. Which also means there is a feeling involved from my part, because else I couldn’t even care anyway.
    So let me tell you what the point is. I have been a member of my gym for a couple of years. There is a girl that has been working there for some time, but until recently I didn’t even know it, since she never peaked my interest.

    She recently, however she did. I don’t know if a literal reflection of what happened has any added value, so the short is that it started with bantering and I felt like she played along quite well and that she was pretty intelligent and somehow she also had “something” in the physical department. So that peaked my interest.
    I didn’t talk to her afterwards till a week later when I tried to involve her into her a conversation I had with another guy. Instead of playing along she started a rant against the other guy and afterwards to me, about something I said the week before. I told her that experiencing a setback is not bad at her age, since it allows you to grow. Somehow she interpreted it as me wishing her bad things.

    That was a sign for me to let things go. It says a lot about her and little about me. Anyway a couple of weeks went by and last Tuesday she started to talk to me.
    She had muscle aches and I asked her what her goals were. She wanted to burn more fat. She lost 28 pounds so I said well done. Even better keeping it off. Then we got interrupted by some idiot women with no social limitations at all. After I got rid of her I asked the girl, ok I got interrupted, but what do you eat. She said, well something special and I don’t want to tell it to you, because of course you will have all kind of remarks and reasons why it is not good. I said well ok, why would I, as long as if it makes you feel good, you should do it. So I said, is it working for you? She said well, yes sure, made some weird movement and ran off.

    What is that??? I am used to black and white shit. Women are totally in to me or they want to drink my blood. This is totally new for me. If never met a woman who starts talking to me and then be vocal about my intentions in whatever way, without even knowing me. Is that intuitive stuff?

    It annoys me that I can’t grasp it and that I can’t read whether she likes me or not (would that be the famous ti ni loop?).

    Has anyone of you ever experienced this behavior and do you think it is person related or personality type related?
    I love to hear your insights!



  2. #2

    I dunno... She sounds like one of those girls who gets easily offended and can't take what she dishes out, based on how you described her outburst. Then again I could be wrong.

    At any rate, I'd suggest you tread carefully and analyze her before allowing your feelings to get in the way. Good luck though.

  3. #3

    From what you described, she probably has had the experience of either thinking you criticized her or observing you criticizing someone else. As a result, she's insecure around you all of a sudden. I honestly don't think she's playing games, but that she's having trouble telling you that some event between the two of you has caused her to feel less secure. This could be entirely wrong, but it's just the vibe I get, as a woman who used to be pretty weird like this in my teens and early twenties.
    JB Nobody and Spell66 thanked this post.

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  5. #4

    Quote Originally Posted by Spell66 View Post
    Hi fellow ISTP’ers

    I’d like your insight in a problem I am having. Of course it involves women. Which also means there is a feeling involved from my part, because else I couldn’t even care anyway.
    So let me tell you what the point is. I have been a member of my gym for a couple of years. There is a girl that has been working there for some time, but until recently I didn’t even know it, since she never peaked my interest.

    She recently, however she did. I don’t know if a literal reflection of what happened has any added value, so the short is that it started with bantering and I felt like she played along quite well and that she was pretty intelligent and somehow she also had “something” in the physical department. So that peaked my interest.
    I didn’t talk to her afterwards till a week later when I tried to involve her into her a conversation I had with another guy. Instead of playing along she started a rant against the other guy and afterwards to me, about something I said the week before. I told her that experiencing a setback is not bad at her age, since it allows you to grow. Somehow she interpreted it as me wishing her bad things.
    That ^ bolded.

    Are you sure its not so much that she thought you were wishing her bad things as that you were possibly coming off dismissive of something that to her is an up hill battle even if to you its a growing experience. Just saying I would be kinda irritated if someone opened up dialogue with me and probed and then was dismissive once they got me to open up. I get your delivery was not in a mean tone or ill intended, but well I can just say from experience with someone coming to mind of them probing me to open up and asking me questions then my answering a bit candid and get a rather patronizingly 'young grasshopper' "its enlightenment" response. I just do get a sense personally from hearing this story that your delivery and tone and your play and part is having to do with her responses to you and her backlash.

    Oh yeah also, NO I do not think she sounds like an intuitive just off that, if she is one I would guess an NFJ, (we all know their Ni can be paranoid), but actually I was thinking she sounded like she was taking too much of what you say as so literal that I am inclined to think shes very likely a sensor and an SP temperament at that. (Which would explain why you in many ways never noticed her -often people attract to opposites I notice alotta STP guys like NFs). Naw I think she was under your radar because she is likely an SP. And I think you two may just be clashing because neither end wants to be patronized or one upped or dismissed. In other words a really weird ass circle dance is going on because your both trying to lead in your own normal comfortable format is my take on this.

    I seriously get annoyed as hell by people getting me to open up only to say something kind of undermining to propel or elevate themselves. Its patronizing. I just think if you initiate conversation with a person it should be based on genuine interest and opinions should not be solicited unless asked for (lol especially when talking to an SP).

    Further more I gotta say you did address her being young enough etc... I noticed your Gen X. I gotta say as a Gen Y that usually dates Gen X, sorry but Gen Xers really like to puff their chest and feel like big strong men. If I had a fucken dollar for everytime I have gotten that sentiment. And my thoughts are, well why the fuck would you even ask or start a conversation with me if every corner we would turn in dialogue is a young grass hopper speech.

    Anyways I am inclined to think that she has Ni in her top 4 off of what you said. which would make her NxJ or SxP, I lean SxP tho because she is taking you literal which would put her Ni at tert or inferior. Which would explain the clash in communication.

    Also you touched on shes like no woman you are used to interacting with, I am inclined to think the women most likely to be unlike most women interacting with males would often be NxJ & SxPs. Which would further explain why your confused by how non receptive she is to your approach because your used to other types of interactions. For example an SxP female is very unlikely to smile and nod and say your so smart and strong after its demonstrated especially if its ever demonstrated thru opening them up themselves. Because NxJs & SxP females are no different then STP males in that they like to be experts of their own journey (unless they ask for it). Tak ethe fact she is female out of there. In general SxPs & NxJs like to be admired for their strengths or have a silver lining pointed out in their short comings. (Of course constructive criticism can be taken) but in general conversation where its not merited. I just think you will break more ground with her if you really take a hard long look at how you like to be regarded and appreciated, and assume its no different for her just because she is female.

    I am not saying you cannot ever offer insight, but its seems a strange thing to do to me as an SP woman as far as a way to pick me up. If someone was trying to make conversation with me at a gym got me to open up and then kept bellying back with propelling themselves with undermining me.......

    I know it seems I may have gone off on tangent but seriously I think I am onto to something I am 3 redbulls in and trying to crash so forgive my getting carried away.

    But lol are you sure she is really all that foreign of a creature. Maybe think of how you like to interact or be interacted with vs catering to the idea of how you have had to tailor yourself to communicate with most females. Just saying the father time route sounds like a dead end for a NxJ or SxP female.
    Last edited by Sensational; 10-31-2015 at 12:46 AM.
    JB Nobody, sun spun rainbows, maust and 3 others thanked this post.

  6. #5
    Unknown

    Maybe not attributing every random thing to her being female?
    She is a person that has a certain POV, and your POV and hers clashed on certain items.
    As we are on a typology forum,
    I will make the oh so bold claim that it comes down to her type and not her gender.

  7. #6
    ISTP - The Mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by Spell66 View Post
    Hi fellow ISTP’ers

    I’d like your insight in a problem I am having. Of course it involves women. Which also means there is a feeling involved from my part, because else I couldn’t even care anyway.
    So let me tell you what the point is. I have been a member of my gym for a couple of years. There is a girl that has been working there for some time, but until recently I didn’t even know it, since she never peaked my interest.
    Not noticing her is never a good start, lol. I wonder how many times she noticed you, and you looked past her, or at another woman instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spell66 View Post
    She recently, however she did. I don’t know if a literal reflection of what happened has any added value, so the short is that it started with bantering and I felt like she played along quite well and that she was pretty intelligent and somehow she also had “something” in the physical department. So that peaked my interest.
    I didn’t talk to her afterwards till a week later when I tried to involve her into her a conversation I had with another guy. Instead of playing along she started a rant against the other guy and afterwards to me, about something I said the week before. I told her that experiencing a setback is not bad at her age, since it allows you to grow. Somehow she interpreted it as me wishing her bad things.
    I'm pretty sure that after using a phrase similar to "at your age", the proper response for a guy is to admit you've dishonored your ancestors, and commit seppuku on the spot. No matter how well-meaning you may be, you're either going to come across as pointing out she's "old", or conversely, sounding like you think she's immature.

    Same with talking about weight. Even if she brings it up, just tell her that her effort is really paying off. Doesn't matter if you barely know her, or you've been married for 50 years, just don't.

    Also, keep in mind that because you haven't paid much attention to her and she works there, she may have dated the other guy, or he was creepy to her, or maybe he insulted her at some point. It might be a light-hearted way to open a conversation, but you're gambling when you involve other people. If you want to talk to her, just talk to her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spell66 View Post
    That was a sign for me to let things go. It says a lot about her and little about me. Anyway a couple of weeks went by and last Tuesday she started to talk to me.
    She had muscle aches and I asked her what her goals were. She wanted to burn more fat. She lost 28 pounds so I said well done. Even better keeping it off. Then we got interrupted by some idiot women with no social limitations at all. After I got rid of her I asked the girl, ok I got interrupted, but what do you eat. She said, well something special and I don’t want to tell it to you, because of course you will have all kind of remarks and reasons why it is not good. I said well ok, why would I, as long as if it makes you feel good, you should do it. So I said, is it working for you? She said well, yes sure, made some weird movement and ran off.
    Maybe you should have offered up a taboo food item that you binge on once in a while, so she could laugh and relax, and know you're not a gym droid. Perhaps she felt awkward after your interaction with the idiot woman, or by the way you got rid of same.

    Some types tend to put themselves into everybody else's shoes (cough, INFJs, cough), so she may have seen you pushing her away like that someday, and panicked. Maybe she wasn't in the mood to be interrogated about her food flaws, or maybe she didn't want to become a "if it feels good, do it" fling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spell66 View Post
    What is that??? I am used to black and white shit. Women are totally in to me or they want to drink my blood. This is totally new for me. If never met a woman who starts talking to me and then be vocal about my intentions in whatever way, without even knowing me. Is that intuitive stuff?

    It annoys me that I can’t grasp it and that I can’t read whether she likes me or not (would that be the famous ti ni loop?).

    Has anyone of you ever experienced this behavior and do you think it is person related or personality type related?
    I love to hear your insights!
    Adult relationships are rarely black and white, and tend to become a bit grayer the older you get.

    Part of the problem with being an ISTP is that we're so blunt and straight-forward most of the time, that it's easy to forget that most types aren't. Many Feelers are constantly testing and weighing people's responses to them, and it doesn't take much effort to wreck a conversation.

    Simlarly, iNtuitives are notorious for overthinking what we say. Judgers tend to have a running checklist of expectations, and if you don't hit a mark or worse, check an item on the "don't date anyone like this" side of the ledger, you're hosed.

    That's just (stereotypical) issues with MBTI types. As mentioned earlier, she's worked there a while, and you don't really know what her experiences with other patrons are, because you didn't even notice her. Gyms are meat markets, and even a less attractive woman is going to get a lot of unwanted attention. She's going to have her guard up after two years.

    You also don't know much about her past relationships, skeletons in her closet, or any number of things that have nothing to do with you. These become more important as you become older, especially when someone's looking for more than just a physical relationship, or been burned in the past.

    Two interactions centered around her body insecurities may be counterbalancing any physical attraction she has toward you, so try talking about something else, and offer up something fun and personal about yourself, so she'll have a deeper connection to you. Unless, of course, you're only interested in a physical fling, in which case she's probably going to be too much effort for your goal.

    As others have said, you may want to think about what you want, because while the scatter gun approach works fine when you're younger, that's a good way to end up with stalkers and basket cases when you get older. If you're not looking for anything serious, enjoy the confident, shallow relationships, and dodge the insecure ones. They may seem weak or helpless, but when one turns on you, it can become a nightmare.

    And no, that's not a Ti-Ni loop. Those are more like being in a psychological prison that makes you flee the world and relationships with others. Loops aren't like depression either, you just feel awkward, second guess yourself too often, and can't be bothered interacting with humanity, even for simple things like ordering a burger.

    TL;DR - Not every woman that's attracted to you is going to instantly hump your leg. Sometimes you have to put some effort into relationships. Depending on your goals, it may not be worth the effort.

  8. #7
    ISTP - The Mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturnian Devil View Post
    I dunno... She sounds like one of those girls who gets easily offended and can't take what she dishes out, based on how you described her outburst. Then again I could be wrong.

    At any rate, I'd suggest you tread carefully and analyze her before allowing your feelings to get in the way. Good luck though.
    You know, years ago, I would contribute it to that, but nowadays, I am very aware of that the reactions I get, very much depend on how I bring things, but also that often it is a case of insecurity, which shows itself in different ways. It is just hard to figure out what happened. But I think Cinnamon did a fantastic job describing that.

    I however do take your advice at heart. And thank you very much for your contribution.
    Saturnian Devil thanked this post.

  9. #8
    ISTP - The Mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by brightflashes View Post
    From what you described, she probably has had the experience of either thinking you criticized her or observing you criticizing someone else. As a result, she's insecure around you all of a sudden. I honestly don't think she's playing games, but that she's having trouble telling you that some event between the two of you has caused her to feel less secure. This could be entirely wrong, but it's just the vibe I get, as a woman who used to be pretty weird like this in my teens and early twenties.
    I think you are entirely right. I indeed did notice her observing me both visually and auditely (is that a word). I never however anything of it. I think since I work the same way I missed the blind spot, namely that what is right in front of you being that she is the same as I am, in being an S. I think Cinnamon explains it perfectly, but you have no idea how many things suddenly fall in to place in my head. I seriously cannot thank you enough.

  10. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by Spell66 View Post
    You know, years ago, I would contribute it to that, but nowadays, I am very aware of that the reactions I get, very much depend on how I bring things, but also that often it is a case of insecurity, which shows itself in different ways. It is just hard to figure out what happened. But I think Cinnamon did a fantastic job describing that.

    I however do take your advice at heart. And thank you very much for your contribution.
    I feel you. I'm pretty aware of the reactions I get, too, and I know some people are easily made insecure by the ISTP commentary. We're not the most tactful individuals, as you might already know. As far as the girl, I really only thought she was one of those girls I described in my previous post since the reality is that there are a lot of women who say things to others but cannot stand it when it's done to them. As far as her insecurity, yeah, most women have them, but I don't think it's your job to coddle her.

    Anyway, no problem. Best of luck and hopefully you two get to understand each other a little better without the weird misunderstandings.

  11. #10
    ISTP - The Mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinnamon83 View Post
    That ^ bolded.

    Are you sure its not so much that she thought you were wishing her bad things as that you were possibly coming off dismissive of something that to her is an up hill battle even if to you its a growing experience. Just saying I would be kinda irritated if someone opened up dialogue with me and probed and then was dismissive once they got me to open up. I get your delivery was not in a mean tone or ill intended, but well I can just say from experience with someone coming to mind of them probing me to open up and asking me questions then my answering a bit candid and get a rather patronizingly 'young grasshopper' "its enlightenment" response. I just do get a sense personally from hearing this story that your delivery and tone and your play and part is having to do with her responses to you and her backlash.

    Oh yeah also, NO I do not think she sounds like an intuitive just off that, if she is one I would guess an NFJ, (we all know their Ni can be paranoid), but actually I was thinking she sounded like she was taking too much of what you say as so literal that I am inclined to think shes very likely a sensor and an SP temperament at that. (Which would explain why you in many ways never noticed her -often people attract to opposites I notice alotta STP guys like NFs). Naw I think she was under your radar because she is likely an SP. And I think you two may just be clashing because neither end wants to be patronized or one upped or dismissed. In other words a really weird ass circle dance is going on because your both trying to lead in your own normal comfortable format is my take on this.

    I seriously get annoyed as hell by people getting me to open up only to say something kind of undermining to propel or elevate themselves. Its patronizing. I just think if you initiate conversation with a person it should be based on genuine interest and opinions should not be solicited unless asked for (lol especially when talking to an SP).

    Further more I gotta say you did address her being young enough etc... I noticed your Gen X. I gotta say as a Gen Y that usually dates Gen X, sorry but Gen Xers really like to puff their chest and feel like big strong men. If I had a fucken dollar for everytime I have gotten that sentiment. And my thoughts are, well why the fuck would you even ask or start a conversation with me if every corner we would turn in dialogue is a young grass hopper speech.

    Anyways I am inclined to think that she has Ni in her top 4 off of what you said. which would make her NxJ or SxP, I lean SxP tho because she is taking you literal which would put her Ni at tert or inferior. Which would explain the clash in communication.

    Also you touched on shes like no woman you are used to interacting with, I am inclined to think the women most likely to be unlike most women interacting with males would often be NxJ & SxPs. Which would further explain why your confused by how non receptive she is to your approach because your used to other types of interactions. For example an SxP female is very unlikely to smile and nod and say your so smart and strong after its demonstrated especially if its ever demonstrated thru opening them up themselves. Because NxJs & SxP females are no different then STP males in that they like to be experts of their own journey (unless they ask for it). Tak ethe fact she is female out of there. In general SxPs & NxJs like to be admired for their strengths or have a silver lining pointed out in their short comings. (Of course constructive criticism can be taken) but in general conversation where its not merited. I just think you will break more ground with her if you really take a hard long look at how you like to be regarded and appreciated, and assume its no different for her just because she is female.

    I am not saying you cannot ever offer insight, but its seems a strange thing to do to me as an SP woman as far as a way to pick me up. If someone was trying to make conversation with me at a gym got me to open up and then kept bellying back with propelling themselves with undermining me.......

    I know it seems I may have gone off on tangent but seriously I think I am onto to something I am 3 redbulls in and trying to crash so forgive my getting carried away.

    But lol are you sure she is really all that foreign of a creature. Maybe think of how you like to interact or be interacted with vs catering to the idea of how you have had to tailor yourself to communicate with most females. Just saying the father time route sounds like a dead end for a NxJ or SxP female.
    Pfff, gee. I have no idea how to react, but let me try to write down my appreciation: if there were a forum-member-of –the-week-award, to me you would be the winner by miles ahead.

    You know, there are many days in a man’s life that he pretty much stands still, but once in a while you have one of those days that everything clicks and you feel almost literally feel yourself grow as a person. I would say, please give me your address so I can send you a month’s production of Red Bull.

    I think you are spot on. Yes, looking back I said “it is not bad at your age to experience a setback” in a way that can absolutely be interpreted as being condescending. I said that at a moment where I actually did not know how to proceed in a bantering and that came out, not good. And yes I do not take that very well either.

    Yes, I never even considered her to be an SP too, I think I never even met one. Most of them are NF I think and they don’t turn me on, and yes the SP women type is new to me. Perhaps SP works better for me, I never saw it that way. She tells me when she doesn’t like things and does not expect me “to be on the same wavelength so I should feel it when something is not ok. I love directness in a women. It shows strength and I like strong women.

    Yes, it is very likely that she wants to be the queen of her own journey. I am the same way, but indeed I am only used to people who want me to tell everything and pretty much chew everything out for them, since they are too lazy, or too dumb.

    And no, since reading all of your responses, she might be more familiar than I ever realized. And that is what I am here for, I want to learn, and be able to switch types of behavior and communication to different types.

    It is a shame that you weren’t there during those conversations, because I think you could give me tons of information. I gave you little information to work with so I was baffled that you can get all this out of it but allow me to give you some additional info so maybe you can teach me more.

    You know, my trainings partner is a female INFJ (who is actually pissed she is a woman and not a man, because she can relate to men a lot better than to women) and we get along fine nowadays (not in the past, since I was too stubborn, making a point of everything, discuss everything, trying to prove me being right and wanting to hear that from the other. No I was not a fun person to be around then and totally immature).

    Yet I never give her advice, I only teach her what I know, because she asked. I never question her diet, or her motivation, 2 years ago it was because I do not feel responsible for that, but since discovering the personality type, I know that it works different for her, and very often she has a lot of problems with her own behavior, so I try to support her.

    The only thing I told her is that I want to her to put in the effort to explore things and question me as much as possible with funded arguments, so she learns what she is actually doing instead of copying me. One because I want her to be able to do everything without me, in a way that I am reassured that she does heavy squats and deadlifts in safe way but the second is more important to me: I am not interested in being seen as a teacher. I want her to be my equal where I do not have to lower my standards, but where she rises to mine. I have very different and very high standards in comparison to most people, so I am quite sure she will get better by reaching to them.

    Actually, nowadays I rose to them and I don’t need other people’s approval anymore or hurting other people to feel good. I dismiss any and all people who are that way.

    I understand that you say that man are chest puffers. I notice that too, and I really don’t like it either. I see them in the gym a lot. Big guys running around like they are the king, and when they work out, they are weak as hell. I hate that. It is nothing more than a skin for covering up neediness and insecurity. Same is with bragging (that one I used to be guilty of too in the past, as said above), somehow they feel that they need that to be noticed by women. I find that very sad and very unmanly.

    Only in the bantering did I use her being young. For the rest I often have the problem that I forget that I am 40, since both mentally and physically I am a much better shape than I was actually 20. So I don’t even see her as a lot younger. She is mature, and probably even more than me.

    Towards this girl:

    When I get to know someone new (and especially women) the first thing I do is bantering. It is the easiest way for me to assess if someone is worth my energy. I despise people I do not know, being nice to me. It is insincere to me. So I am never nice, and if people are pissed, I am not so interested. Do they play along or not take it too personally, they show potential.
    That is what I did with her. Nothing more, nothing less. I am not trying her to open up (unless maybe we have different views of what opening up is), since that doesn’t work for me. It is too fast and definitely not into my strengths.

    The only thing that I am trying to do, is to plant a seed, water it once in a while and get out of there. Feelings are created when you get into someone’s head and you are not there. Most men kill everything by simply going waaaay too fast and therefor ruin the entire experience for women.

    I am very well aware that the way women think about you doesn’t mean anything. Anything is better than them not thinking about you at all. It is an absolute necessity to create attraction. So the simple conclusion would be, that she does think about me, else she wouldn’t have formed an image.

    Today I caught her gauging a lot more times than before. So I assume that I responded in the correct way, when she said that she didn’t want to tell me what her diet was.

    I am not a native anglo saksian, so some expression you use, I have trouble placing them in the right context and I want to be absolutely sure that I understand perfectly what you are trying to teach me so would you be so kind to clarify what the phrases you used exactly mean?

    You say: “In general SxPs & NxJs like to be admired for their strengths or have a silver lining pointed out in their short comings. (Of course constructive criticism can be taken) but in general conversation where its not merited.

    What is a silver lining pointed out in there short comings?

    And what do you mean by “in general conversation where it is not merited?

    You say: “. If someone was trying to make conversation with me at a gym got me to open up and then kept bellying back with propelling themselves with undermining me.......”

    What do you mean with bellying back?

    Once again, you really made may day today. It has been a long time since I have been so excited. So many many thanks again and keep lurking away those redbulls!
    Sensational thanked this post.


     
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