Which theory of how mankind/creation came into being is most likely to be true?

Which theory of how mankind/creation came into being is most likely to be true?

View Poll Results: Which theory is most likely to be the right one?

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12. You may not vote on this poll
  • Theory I

    0 0%
  • Theory II

    0 0%
  • Theory III

    0 0%
  • Theory IV

    6 50.00%
  • Theory V

    2 16.67%
  • Theory VI

    2 16.67%
  • Theory VII

    0 0%
  • Theory VIII

    1 8.33%
  • Theory VIIII

    0 0%
  • Theory X

    1 8.33%
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  1. #1

    Which theory of how mankind/creation came into being is most likely to be true?

    About 3 quarters of the world subscribes to one of many theories that differs with the scientific proposition of how life, and the universe in general, began.

    This poll gets them together to ask you, if you discount the scientific proposition, which of these theories is most likely to be the right one? Or if you accept the scientific proposition, you can vote as well just to say which one you think would have the highest likelihood of being right if there never was a scientific proposition.

    There are way, way, way too many of these theories to have included all of them - plus I got tired of typing a summary of each lol - so I included 10 of the most prominent ones for this poll. So let's get to it... which one of these do you think is most likely to be right, and why?



    .. THEORY I

    In the beginning there was Apsu the primordial (identified with land), and Tiamat the chaos (identified with sea) At the time land and sea were not separate, they were mixed together. Apsu and Tiamat begat Lakhmu and Lakhamu, and then Anshar and Kishar, and then more and more gods... with so many gods now in existence they decided they needed some order to things, and so they separated land from water, and rivers from sea, and they gave names to things. However more land than water was created, and Tiamat was angry that her realm the sea had been reduced in size. She started hating all the other gods, and with her husband Apsu, she plotted to kill them.

    She created the 11 Ancient Monsters (Mušḫuššu being one of them) They were scary as hell, and when they moved the whole world shook, and the other gods trembled at the sight of them. Anshar told his son Anu to go appease Tiamat. But when he got to Tiamat's realm and saw the monsters, he ran back to his father's place. So Anshar called on Ea to do it. The same happened with him, and when he got back, the other gods were frightened just from the look on his face. Then one of the younger gods, a giant named Marduk, stood up and said "I, Marduk, will be the champion of the gods! If I defeat the monsters, you must all agree to be my subordinates. I'll rule as supreme god, and my word alone will be law!" They agreed.

    They prepared weapons for him (bow and arrow, axe, spear, etc); they gave him thunder and lighting; they gave him a giant net. Tiamat saw they were getting ready to throw down, got pissed, and decked out her monsters with stuff like poison in their veins instead of blood, and fire for breath.

    Marduk got to Tiamat's place really quick thanks to the seven winds (ie the whirlwind, the storm, the evil wind, etc) The other gods followed him, but at a distance - like, a really long distance. Once he got there, the sight of Marduk throwing thunder and lighting at them made the monsters scared, and retreat. But Tiamat was so pissed, she was the only one who didn't run away. Marduk was like "That's cool", and grabbed the evil wind and hurled that sucker right into her mouth, and it filled up her stomach. He then pierced her heart with his spear - as she fell down, he decapitated her with his axe - then took the giant ass net and threw it all over the monsters.

    Marduk cut channels for Tiamat's blood to flow to the most distant, unreachable places. Once all the blood flowed out of her body, he cut the body in two... one half he used as the cover for the sky, to prevent the waters and floods from coming down on Earth (firmament) (primum mobile) - and with the other half, he made the Earth. He divided what he created among the gods - the heavens to Anu, the Earth to Bel, the abyss to Ea, etc. He made all the stars. He gave the sun god day, and the moon god night.

    Then before leaving, he was like "You guys should have servants on Earth", and he used his own flesh to create the first man and woman. And that's how us humans got here.

     
    In the bible, Isaiah 45:13, YHWH takes credit for Cyrus the Great of Persia allowing the Jews to rebuild the temple of Jerusalem.

    But in Cyrus's own records, recorded on the Cyrus Cylinder, he says Marduk made him do it, lol.

    .. THEORY II

    With this next theory, there were actually 4 competing theories under the same umbrella - Hermopolis, Heliopolis, Memphis, Thebes. So I threw a dart at their names on the wall and picked wherever the dart landed... that turned out to be Heliopolis.

    So there was a dark, swirling chaos and water before the beginning of time - this was called Nu. Out of these waters rose Atum; creating himself using his thoughts and the sheer force of his will. He was genderqueer/nonbinary (neither male or female), and he had one all-seeing eye that could roam the universe (Eye of Ra) ��

    After coming to life, he was like "There's nowhere for me to stand", so he created a hill. He then joined with his shadow to produce a son and daughter. He gave birth to his son by spitting him out - he named him Shu and made him the god of the air. He vomited up his daughter, named her Tefnut, and made her the goddess of rain, mist and moisture. Shu and Tefnut were tasked with separating the swirling chaos (Nu) into principles of law, order and stability. The chaos was divided into light and dark, and set into place... this order was called Maat, and formed the principles of life for all time.

    Then Shu and Tefnut produced Geb, god of the Earth, and Nut, goddess of the sky. At first they were tangled together as one... then Shu pushed Nut up to separate the waters above from the earth below (firmament) (primum mobile) She would remain arched out over Geb that way for good - they longed to be together, but in the name of Maat they had to be apart to fulfill their functions. Nut made it rain on Geb, and Geb used that rain to make things grow on Earth. Nut gave birth to the sun every night before dawn, and durng the day it would follow it's course over the Earth, and then die at sunset. Shu and Tefnut created the other gods - Isis, Hathor, Osiris, Nephthys, etc.

    The swirling chaos (Nu) was still vast at this time, and not fully turned into the order of Maat. One day, Shu and Tefnut got lost in the dark waters of Nu. Atum freaked out and needed to find his kids. He sent his all-seeing Eye of Ra �� to find them - and some time later, they came back with the eye. When Atum saw them, he was so happy he wept tears of joy. As these tears hit the Earth, they became the first men. And that's how us humans got here.

    As the men populated the Earth, they had to uphold the truth and balance of Maat, tend the Earth and worship the gods. The gods, in turn, protected and loved their creations.

     
    In the Hermopolis version of this, there is a cosmic egg from which the sun god Ra was born. Many others get to have a cosmic egg, this one doesn't want to be left out so insisted I include this.

    .. THEORY III

    Before time began, there was only darkness and the primordial sea (which took the form of the goddess Nammu) She gave birth to Anki the universe. At first they were the universe and Earth in one, a vast mountain of soil and sky mixed together. Anki produced Enlil the air. Enlil separated Anki into An the sky and Ki (Nammu) the earth. He pulled his mother down to form the ground, and pushed his father up to form the heavens to separate the waters above from the waters below (firmament) (primum mobile)[/SIZE]

    He then created the moon god Nanna, who in turn created the sun god Utu. Enlil and Ki joined to produce Enki - the god of water, vegetation, wisdom, and lord of the universe. Enki gathered together part of the primordial sea and squeezed it into the rivers Tigris and Euphrates. He caused there to be cattle and fish, and made the soil rich and fertile.

    Meanwhile in heaven while the gods were having a drunken banquet, they decided to make humans. And that's how us humans got here. The first race was made of clay, weak in body and mind, and poorly made in general. So the gods decided to destroy them all in a great flood. Only 2 people were worthy enough to survive - a man named Ziusudra and his wife. Enki told them to build a wooden ark and stay there until the flood waters subsided. The gods then redirected the Tigris and Euphrates, causing a huge flood that went on day and night, and killing all humanity.

    When the flood waters subsided and Ziusudra and his wife came out of the ark, they began a new generation of humans from which we are all descended today.

    .. THEORY IV

    In the beginning, there was only darkness and the primordial sea. It was formless and void (Hebrew "tohu wa-bohu" = chaos) The spirit of the god YHWH moved upon the surface of the waters. And he said "Let there be light", and he divided the light from the darkness. He called the light day, and the darkness he called night. A first day. Then YHWH said "Let there be a firmament to divide the waters above from the waters below", and it happened. He called the firmament heaven. Then came a second day.

    And YHWH was like "Let the waters be gathered in one place, and let land appear", and he called the gathered waters 'seas', and the land 'earth'. Then he was like "Let the earth put forth grass, herb-yielding seed, fruit-bearing trees, all of that". It happened, and then came a third day. Then he was like "Let there be lights in the firmament to divide day from night, and let them be for signs, seasons, years and shit". And it happened.

    Then came a fourth day, at which point YHWH said "Waters, swarm forth with creatures; air, swarm forth with fowls". Then came the fifth day, when YHWH said "I didn't forget about you land, why dontcha swarm forth with creatures too". And then the next day, YHWH said "Let us make man in our image, and let them have dominion over all this other shit I just created". And that's how us humans got here. YHWH told them "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the Earth"... and on the seventh day he was like "Dude, I gotta take a nap. All this creating has left me, the omnipotent one, a little tired"

    ... Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, wait (said the person reading the same incident in Genesis chapter 2)

    What do you mean Adam came before vegetation (Genesis 1:11-13)? He came after vegetation (Genesis 2:5)! And what's this about the animals coming before Adam (Genesis 1:20-25)? Adam came before the animals (Genesis 2:5-7)! And what's this about Adam and Eve being created at the same time (Genesis 1:26-27)? Adam came first, and then Eve came sometime later (Genesis 2:7, 2:21)! And what's this about light coming before the sun and moon (Genesis 1:3)? That's not even physically possible! The sun and moon came before light, since that was the source of the light. Duh!

    .. THEORY V

    The Earth goddess Gaia was formed from a raging chaos which existed before time began. She gave birth to the sky god Uranus, who covered her with his starry mantle. They became the first husband and wife. They had many children who were monsters, such as checatoncheires (creatures with 100m hands and 50 heads), and cyclops (giants who had one eye) Uranus was scared of his kids and hid them in the Earth. This upset Gaia because she loved her children, so she plotted to destroy Uranus. She gave birth to several more beings known as the Titans - among them was Kronos, who was strong enough to overthrow Uranus. Gaia made him a sickle, and he hid in his mother's shadow until night fell, when Uranus the sky came to Earth. When Uranus came to rest, Kronos sprang from his hiding place and killed him with one stroke... resulting in him now becoming the god of the sky.

    He married another Titan, Rhea, and they had many children. He also created the first humans, who were made of gold. This was called the Golden Age, when men didn't have to work, suffer or die.

    But Kronos was also cruel and feared his children. After each one was born, he ate them whole so that he'd never be overthrown. Rhea was horrified by this. With the help of Gaia, she gave birth to a son, Zeus, and hid him on the island of Crete - but to Kronos, she gave a stone wrapped in baby clothes. Kronos thus ate the stone, while the real Zeus was in hiding. Zeus grew over time to become the most powerful god ever. When he was finished growing, he returned with an army of Gaia's monsters and the rest oft he gods to overthrow Kronos. The war went on for 10 years, and all the men of the Golden Age were killed.

    He used an emetic given to him by Gaia to make Kronos vomit up his brothers and sisters. The cyclops made Poseidon a trident, and Hades a helmet of darkness, and had already made Zeus his thunderbolts... and they overthrew Kronos, then put him and the Titans in Tartarus. Zeus then built the palace of Olympus, from where he ruled Earth, and married his sister Hera and had many children... as well as many other children with many other women kept secret from Hera. Soon the world was filled with tons of gods.

    Zeus created a second race of men to worship the Olympians. These men were made of silver. they were foolish and had no respect for the gods, - it was called the Silver Age, and didn't last long. The men pissed Zeus off, and he hid them away in the underworld. Zeus replaced them with a third race of men made of bronze, and that began the Bronze Age. The bronze men were very warlike, and destroyed each other so much, that Zeus also hid them in the underworld.

    So Zeus made ANOTHER race of men, but it's ok... these guys were the heroes of the Heroic Age. They did lots of awesome stuff, so when they died, they ended up in the Isles of the Blessed of the Elysian Fields.

    The men of the Heroic Age gave way to the men of today, the men of the Iron Age... and that's how us humans got here. These men had to toil all their lives and suffer and die.

     
    In another version of this, there is a cosmic egg called the Orphic Egg, from which hatched the hermaphroditic deity Phanes, who then created the other gods. Some of the others get to have a cosmic egg, this one doesn't want to be left out so insisted I include this.
     
    Most of the gods mentioned here are playable characters in the games Age of Mythology and Smite. The Titans were not in Age of Mythology, but after threatening the game's creators, there quickly was a sequel released that did include them - Age of Mythology: The Titans :p

    .. THEORY VI

    Before there was heaven and earth, there was darkness. In the midst of this darkness was a swirling mass in the shape of an enormous egg, containing all things. Slowly over many years, the lighter & purer part drew itself away from the heavier & denser part. The heavy material settled to form the earth - this was yin (dark part of ☯) The lighter part rose to form the heavens - this was yang (light part of ☯) Yin and Yang were opposites, but one could not exist without the other. All things in the world have the properties of one of these two forces.

    From this separation, the first beings appeared... they were Izanagi (male who invites), and Izanami (female who invites) They were on the bridge of heaven and peered down into the darkness below, hearing only rushing water. "Is there no land beneath us?" they asked each other. Izanagi then thrust the jewel-tipped spear Amenonuhoko into the waters... as he drew it up, the drips from the spear formed the island Onogoro-jima, which means 'spontaneously created island'. The two gods descended to live on this island, and decided to build the land together. They would each walk in the opposite direction around the World Axis, and when they met each other again they would be married. They walked for months and months, finally meeting in the middle.

    Izanami, speaking first, said "What a lovely man I have met". But this upset Izanagi, who felt that it should have been him, the man, to spoke first. He declared this unlucky and had them do it all over again. After again walking for many months, they met in the middle, and this time Izanagi spoke first. "What a beautiful maiden I have met" he said. Izanami replied, as the Yin force, there was a part of her body that was empty... Izanagi said that as the Yang force, there was a part of his body which was too much... therefore they completed each other and became one as husband and wife.

    Their first child was the island of Ahaji. They produced 6 more islands and declared it the Great Eight Island Country (Japan) Izanami gave birth to Ohohiro Me No Muchi, who was so radiant that they sent her to rule in heaven and she became the sun goddess. Her next child was Tsukiyumi No Mikoto, and he became Ohohiro's consort the moon, and was sent to rule in heaven at her side.

    Izanagi and Izanami had many more children who became gods or elements of nature. They also created mankind... and that's how us humans got here.

    .. THEORY VII

    With this next theory, there were actually 4 competing theories under the same umbrella - Rigveda, The Brahmanas, The Upanishads, Garuda Purana. So I threw a dart at their names on the wall and picked wherever the dart landed... that turned out to be Rigveda.

    Before time began there was no heaven, Earth, or space - nothing except a vast, dark ocean waving to and fro - and in this ocean, a giant cobra. Lying asleep in the snake's coils was Vishnu. The snake kept him safe and he slept peacefully. Slowly, a sound started to come into being... ommmm, ommmm, ommmm. It grew louder and filled the emptiness, driving the nothingness away. Vishnu woke up, and a magnificent lotus flower started growing from his navel. right in the middle oft he flower sat Rama. Vishnu told Rama to create a world.

    Rama calmed the wind and stilled the waves. He split the lotus flower, making three different parts - the heavens, the Earth, and the skies. The Earth was bare, so Rama made grass and all kinds of flowers and trees grow. He made all kinds of animals. He also made us, and that's how us humans got here.

    When god creates, he's called Rama; when he looks after the creation, he's called Vishnu; when he destroys, he's called Shiva. Together they are 3 parts of the trimurti.

     
    In the Upanishad version of this, there is a cosmic egg called Hiranyagarbha from which Vishnu came out of. Many others get to have a cosmic egg, this one doesn't want to be left out so insisted I include this.

    .. THEORY VIII

    In the beginning there was an enormous egg containing chaos, which clashed on and on with each other - dark and light, wet and dry, cold and hot, male and female, etc. Finally the egg burst open, and out leapt the giant dragon god Pangu. He pushed the two shell halves apart, and thus the opposites were separated and the earth began to take shape. Every day for 18,000 years, Pangu grew ten feet, and so the sky was raised a little higher each day.

    Once the sky was 30,000 miles above the ground, Pangu stopped and began to hammer out the mountains and fill the valley with water to form giant oceans. He stamped the earth down to create flat land. He gathered light and tossed it into the sky to become stars. After 18,000 years, Pangu had grown old and tired. He wanted to lay down and sleep forever, and once he laid down, he never rose again. When he died, his body formed huge mountains. His skull formed the top of the sky, his hair formed all the flowers, his bones turned to jade and pearl, and his arms & legs became the 4 directions. His blood became the rivers, his breath turned into the wind, and his voice to thunder. One eye became the sun, and the other the moon.

    For many years the world was a beautiful; place, but there were no people. The half-dragon goddess Nuwa was born after Pangu died, and she decided to create humans to have some other beings to talk to and share ideas with, but mostly just to love. She went down to the edge of the Yellow River where there were vast, soft mud banks, and began forming figures out of clay. She thought it would be much more practical for her creations to have legs instead of a dragon tail, so her humans were not made in her image.

    No sooner did she set the first little mud man on the ground did he start to jump, dance and sing. And that's how us humans got here. Nuwa was delighted and began making more and more humans., but soon realized it would take centuries for her to make enough people to fill the Earth completely. So she told them to go and populate the Earth. Those formed by Nuwa's own hands became great leaders.

     
    People who subscribe to this theory are Taoists.

    .. THEORY VIIII

    The Earth was a thought in the mind of Hawenniyu, the ruler of a great island floating above the clouds. The island is a place of calm where all needs are provided and there is no pain or death. On this island grew a great apple tree where the inhabitants held council. Hawenniyu said "Let us make a new place where another people can grow. Under our council tree is a great sea of clouds which calls out for light". He ordered the council tree to be uprooted and had Atahensic (sky woman) look down into the depths. He heard the voice of the sea calling. He told Atahensic, who was pregnant, to bring it life. He wrapped her in light and dropped her down through the hole.

    All the birds and animals who lived in the great cloud sea were panicked. The duck asked "Where can it rest?" "Only earth can hold it" replied the beaver (the oeh-dah from the bottom of the sea) "I will get some", he said. The beaver dove down, but never came up. Then the duck tried, but it's dead body floated to the surface. Many of the other birds and animals tried and failed. Finally the muskrat returned with some earth in his paws. "It's heavy", he said, "Who can support it?" The turtle volunteered, and the earth was placed on top of his shell. When the earth was ready, the birds flew up and carried Atahensic on their wings to the turtle's back.

    This is how Hahnunah, the turtle, came to be the earth bearer. When he moves the sea gets rough and the earth shakes.

    .. THEORY X

    75 million years ago in a sector of called the Galactic Confederation, on the planet Teegeeack, a person named Xenu was elected as supreme ruler. He quickly became a dictator. The people plotted to overthrow him, and during his last moments in office he carried out a large undertaking in an attempt to solve the population problem. He captured billions of people were captured from other planets (90 planets in total) in the Galactic Confederacy, flown to Earth, and left in volcanoes. Hydrogen bombs were dropped on the volcanoes, destroying the people's bodies, releasing thetans, which are their immortal spirits. Anyone born after this incident has had clusters of these thetans attached to their bodies... the thetans are the cause of all the ailments known to man.

    If you become an OT-III (Operating Thetan III), you can remove these thetans from your body, causing them to reincarnate as individuals. With additional hours of auditing (over a thousand, totaling hundreds of thousands of dollars) by an auditor using an E-meter, you can eventually become a Cleared Theta Clear, restoring you to the way you're supposed to function, causing you to be able to have full control over MEST (matter, energy, space, time) If you can't, then you have to do the hours of auditing all over again, repaying the same amount.

    After the successful revolt against Xenu, he was put in an electronic mountain fortress, where he remains today.
    Last edited by Despotic Ocelot; 09-30-2018 at 11:21 PM.
    Jamaia, Tropes and Isa thanked this post.



  2. #2

    Ehh, the closest to what I believe is Theory IV. I don't believe the Genesis account is literal, however, it was never intended to be. It was intended to refute the surrounding creation myths, portraying a non-violent creation and a god who walked with his people. I believe God (YHWH) created the laws of the universe, and interfered only when necessary in the creation of the universe. I don't know how much or when God interfered, and I certainly don't believe everything was created in six days.

  3. #3

    I wasn't around then, so couldn't tell you, but ALIENS!!!
    Sybow, Doccium and RomeoFoxtrotTango thanked this post.

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  5. #4

    Theory VI, large coke and regular fries thanks.

    The story begins with quite a reasonable assumption that darkness preceded all that is. Then we have a giant egg, everybody's favourite symbol/concept - the Yin Yang, and a Japanese wedding. Like all good stories, the guy and girl hookup at the end. What’s not to like?

    I felt sorry for the wife though. Having to give birth to islands. And then there's the dilemma of what gift to bring to the baby shower.

  6. #5

    Aliens raped an ape. Gang bang dude!

  7. #6

    The Greek version... (theory V)

    In the beginning there was Chaos. OK, in the beginning there was the Big Bang, and what came of it reminds the Greek Chaos.
    Then Gaia, and all life started with her - abiogenesis
    The giants which existed before man - dinosaurs.
    The Golden and Silver Age men - Neanderthals. Also, the previous civilizations that existed before us and were forgotten until recently, like the Sumerians.

    Many people dislike Greek mythology because it's violent. The real evolutionary story was too, probably even more so. Many times life almost got terminated.
    Last edited by Blazkovitz; 10-03-2018 at 07:48 AM.

  8. #7
  9. #8

    @Despotic Ocelot

    I didn't vote because I don't think any of them are literally true, but I think your underlying point that they are all quite similar is the most interesting to me. And actually one of the things that made me take Christianity more seriously than I used to.

    When I used to think of creation/origin myths as mere stories people told to explain how we all got here I tended to find very little credibility in the concept. I figured it was largely arbitrary and had very little - if any - truth value. But when I started studying anthropology and saw that so many of them have common themes (eg. primordial chaos, duality, ocean imagery) I started to wonder why that is. A product of the structure of our innate human psychology, perhaps? Maybe. Or maybe these myths are communicating some kind of fundamental philosophical truth which has been covered up with layers of culturally-specific symbolism.

    I guess my point is just that I don't see any of this as a blow to Christianity. I think there is good reason to favour a monotheistic god over polytheism, metaphysically at least. I also don't really think the bible was intended to be a textbook or a history book, to be read literally and understood linearly. So I think it would be a mistake to search for the real Adam and Eve and ascertain whether this historical event really occurred. Genesis is communicating something less superficial than that, I think. That being said, there are plenty of other aspects of Christianity I find harder to believe if we are going to take it literally (eg, the historicity of Jesus, Jesus rising from the dead, miracles, etc). So there is room for criticism and speculation elsewhere of course.

    I hope that was coherent, I have a bit of a headache.
    Aelthwyn thanked this post.

  10. #9

    My vote goes for the Greeks - but only as painted by Goya:




    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    I think there is good reason to favour a monotheistic god over polytheism
    What is the reason?
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  11. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by Tropes View Post
    What is the reason?
    Occams Razor, first of all. Additional gods seem to me to be metaphysically superfluous. Second of all, I’m not sure that polytheism is really coherent if we understand “god” to be immaterial, eternal, the “prime mover”, Being itself, etc. All of which are the crux of the only arguments for god I find compelling. I just don’t see how there could be any kind of meaningful differentiation of divine “substance”, for lack of a better word. Starts to seem like an identity problem.
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