College or No college? - Page 6

College or No college?

View Poll Results: College Degree or No College degree?

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  • Yes Degree

    21 56.76%
  • No Degree

    5 13.51%
  • Other

    11 29.73%
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This is a discussion on College or No college? within the Member Polls forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; Some people just think that a degree is or should be like the California Gold Rush. I suppose for the ...

  1. #51

    Some people just think that a degree is or should be like the California Gold Rush. I suppose for the current costs it might as well be.

    But often a Bachelors Degree is just foundational. I thought it would be more as well until I actually went through most of one. For some people expect mid-level pay or positions right out of college, I don't know why that is. But thinking in the long-term there can be immense benefits that come after years of experience. Many people say that the degree doesn't help you initially in certain fields, but it is there years down the road to enable you to become promoted.

    I chose the cheap school and got free-room on top of that. So it is kind like 50% off for me and money was saved to get through it. In my situation though, it wouldn't have been that difficult if I just got some kind of summer job to pay each bill and that is what many people do. Many people work while they are at school.

    The problem with community college is that for one thing no one respects it. Besides the fact that scholarships for transfer students are incredibly trash, you might as well pick a school that you know will get you an award and you will have to stay there. It seems like common advice to just stay away from full-rides and just go to better schools for some reason.

    But anyway, I communicated with my high school friends and the majority of them went to community college to "try it" and they all dropped out of it. Community college isn't a bastion for lower prices, it is hardly cheaper. The only thing cheaper is you probably won't have to move in and live there which is often the highest cost. But overall it comes out to a similarly high price, at least mine seems to. But the other thing I can immediately tell is that it is where the people with poor high school success went to, people who really didn't care about education. When you group hundreds of those people together don't expect flattering reviews. You don't really want to fill a place with unmotivated or uncertain people and expect that they will all find a great purpose in that environment.

    There were only a few people I knew who were intensively motivated to learn and achieve. Others just wanted a piece of paper to make money or they had a very bad impression of the professors and department so they expected nothing good to come out of college. I would say that is worse than not going to college. It isn't worth going to college if everyone around you is a negative Nancy. I used to greatly enjoy coming back to college after each break to be independent and by myself. But now, it is uninspiring and makes me want to get out of there. I think the environment and people matter a lot, community college isn't something I would expect to have the most exciting environment either especially since many people go through as a last resort where they had no other choice or just didn't really want to go in the first place.
    PowerShell and Crowbo thanked this post.

  2. #52

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerShell View Post
    I agree with this, but you made a pretty bold statement about everyone should experience college, which implies everyone should go.



    This kind of supports what you said before, but I think you're missing the point of what college truly is. College is meant to make you a higher level thinker. You get critical thinking skills to analyze the topic at hand, no matter what the actual topic. You should be able to apply those same skills on the material in an English Lit class or an agriculture class.

    In many ways, we're talking about using the same "skill." It's a higher level of thinking to be able to analyze something. You're analyzing something and coming to a conclusion. You're using a method to do this. College teachers that.




    The problem with college is everyone is brainwashed to go. The federal government throws tons of money at loans. On top of that in the US, you can't absolve students loans with bankruptcy. This allows private lenders to have no real risk and throw even more money at the loans. Since there's a flood of students, colleges no longer have to compete on price and price inflation goes off like crazy. This is supply and demand driving up the price of college.

    At the same time, more people graduate college so there's more people with degrees competing for jobs. This supply and demand drives down the value of a college degree since companies can now require a degree for positions that never required one. The person with a degree is more qualified than a person without a degree, but they are severely underemployed.
    I do think everyone should have the opportunity to go to college. But I'll be honest, I was kind of messy with my original post.

    If college teaches higher level thinking, then why wouldn't we want people to have access to that, even if they have say some kind of impairment to their thinking?

    I don't think it should be forced, but I do think that anyone who is willing to dedicate their time to college should have access. It's good now though that there are more resources for that--people can watch lectures online or take online free courses.

    But I do think different disciplines require different skills. Some disciplines are going to be more hands on and practical and some are going to require more noticing patterns and prediction. Some will require a lot more rote memorization etc. I'm just saying that different disciplines require different skills and preferences.

    Many people go to college because they want to have a better paying job or because they are just expected to do so. I see that as conflicting with what you say college should be for, which is to teach higher level thinking.

    But yeah--it can be difficult, especially in areas with a lot of degree holders. It's very competitive.

    I think college admission based on merit and performance, while funded by taxpayers would be a good idea. And I think there should also be higher education for enrichment, like for people who just want to learn something new--community colleges are good at that though.

    But yeah, it's kind of silly how much of a problem cheating is at the university level. Like you get people who aren't really interested in growing their understanding or appreciative of the content they are learning, and they can't bother learning how to write an essay so they end up paying someone else for an essay or just trying to steal ideas. It's something I noticed more at the university level than community college level, and I think one big difference was that university has more wealthy people who are only there to either make money or because they come from money, whereas the community college had more diversity in socio-economic class. But that's also just anecdotal.

    I think also, in the US we get a lot of our healthcare from our work, and so I think people also fear being uneducated because they will end up just shit out of luck. I think if our society didn't suggest everyone who doesn't want to be homeless and bankrupt from health care get a college degree, people would probably also feel more comfortable choosing paths that require less education and rely more on other skills. I know plenty of people who don't enjoy school, and they probably wouldn't care to go more than what is necessary for their work.

    I'm not really sure what about inflation and how the price of college increases--that's all news to me. Makes sense.

  3. #53

    Quote Originally Posted by MeltedSorbet View Post
    I do think everyone should have the opportunity to go to college. But I'll be honest, I was kind of messy with my original post.

    If college teaches higher level thinking, then why wouldn't we want people to have access to that, even if they have say some kind of impairment to their thinking?
    Everyone should theoretically have the opportunity to go to college. With that being said, we have finite resources. The rest of you post about merit pretty much sums up what I'm saying. College should be available to anyone who is shown they qualify and have the aptitude to get something from it. It should be taxpayer funded. In addition to that, instead of sending people off to college to fail and waste resources, if we're selective, we can divert resources that would otherwise be wasted with people failing normal colleges and use them for technical training or other things that would benefit people.

    You're right that different disciplines requires different sorts of thinking, but that's at the ground level. When you start going up the layers of abstraction, the broad thinking and methodologies behind it are very similar. An author or a farmer may have very different jobs, but if that author became the CEO of a large publisher or the farmer became the CEO of a large argibusiness corporation, the way they think to run that business is very much the same, even if at the ground level it's a completely different industry.

    That's what college is there to prepare you for is thinking bigger than the individual job you're doing. If it's not doing that, you have job training and not actual college. There's nothing wrong with job training but lumping it into the same boat as college then creates the issues we're seeing now of everyone thinking that college is the only path to success.


     
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