Homophoba (Please read thread description before voting!) - Page 7

Homophoba (Please read thread description before voting!)

View Poll Results: Does disagreeing with homosexuality= homophobic?

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  • Yes

    44 32.84%
  • No

    90 67.16%
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This is a discussion on Homophoba (Please read thread description before voting!) within the Member Polls forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; I love how he is missing the point that it is homophobia and bigotry that makes it 'limiting' to be ...

  1. #61

    I love how he is missing the point that it is homophobia and bigotry that makes it 'limiting' to be openly gay and not any other factor. Maybe people should be less homophobic so gay people wouldn't be limited when they are just not hiding their sexuality, their identity, just as straight people get to do everyday? WHAT A THOUGHT!!!!
    chickydoda thanked this post.

  2. #62


    Oh dear, I've been out of this discussion so long I missed the foray into crossdressing? Alas. ;)

    Note: I responded to all this, then got to the end of the thread and saw that progBot bailed on the discussion. NooOoooooOoo. But I already wrote my answers, so I'm posting them anyway, even if they shall never hear a cogent response! Cuz I just feel like it.


    @progBOT : What does it mean to "dress like a man"? What does it mean to dress like a "woman"? Culturally it differs.

    I do agree with your comment about letting one aspect too much define who one is... whether we're talking about sexual preference, or gender, or religion, or whatever else? We are more than male or female, straight or gay, tall or short, muslim or christian or whatever else, etc. we're people. I think we get out of whack when one traits defines everything about us. There are "general traits" like that about me that people can find fascinating, but I tell them that it's only part of who I am, and it's likely not the most interesting thing(s) about me.

    I'm still not sure why you're identifying homosexuality with cross-dressing, though. The two are not the same. Drag queens are typically homosexual males, with male identities; but there are lots of gay people who don't wear cross-gendered clothing. It seems like a weird side-discussion; how many gay males crossdress to work? How many lesbians do? (And aside from wearing a suit with tie, can a lesbian even cross-dress effectively in this culture?)
    Note: just saw your comment about being ESTJ. Okay. That explains some of the thinking patterns here.
    I do appreciate you putting yourself out there clearly by saying this:

    I feel like the people who are doing it because they can are being selfish. They want to be able to do something that offends a lot of people just because they can and don't want ridicule for it. They aren't thinking of the majority of people whom they are offending.


    My response to that is, well, that's a pretty big assumption of their motives! I feel like the entire dialogue has been reduced to the flamboyant minority of gays that would indulge as you have said, but typically must gay people I've met, you wouldn't even be able to tell they're gay... at least, not until you find out who their SO is. And I'm talking gays in the professional sector here.

    Anyway, still not sure how this discussion veered into the crossdressing tangent.

    Getting back to the "gay" thing and homophobia, I think my earlier post hinted at what I can just say outright: Typically people done't feel the need to label certain tastes/preferences as "unnatural," and in fact it's common sarcastic humor to call someone's preference (like for a particular type of weird food) "unnatural" -- it just highlights that there is a moral component to the word "unnatural," it's not a neutral term.

    Because if it's just a preference, with no moral stigma, why does the word "unnatural" have any value? unnatural is only used to justify labeling something as wrong/deficient "because it goes against nature and the way things SHOULD be."

    I just really think that's a loaded word, and does not express a neutral/indifferent view, it has a lot packed into it.

  3. #63

    okay, i know this is just slightly off topic, but this thread was upsetting me, and i just figured out the bottom line as to why that is.

    WHY do people want to diminish the life of another?

    what people are really saying when they say these things is: i don't want this person to be happy.

    and that sucks.
    Jennywocky and lirulin thanked this post.

  4. #64

    Quote Originally Posted by lirulin View Post
    I love how he is missing the point that it is homophobia and bigotry that makes it 'limiting' to be openly gay and not any other factor. Maybe people should be less homophobic so gay people wouldn't be limited when they are just not hiding their sexuality, their identity, just as straight people get to do everyday? WHAT A THOUGHT!!!!
    People will be less homophobic, it just takes time. You can't blame a person for how they were raised and with more and more people accepting it for the non-issue that it is eventually society will follow suit. It's pointless to expect that change overnight, however.
    chickydoda and AussieChick thanked this post.

  5. #65

    Quote Originally Posted by cue5c View Post
    People will be less homophobic, it just takes time. You can't blame a person for how they were raised and with more and more people accepting it for the non-issue that it is eventually society will follow suit. It's pointless to expect that change overnight, however.
    You seem to have missed the point. I never said anything about expecting immediate change. I am simply pointing out the utter lack of logic in a homophobic argument. The total lack of self-awareness in the stupid stupid argument 'It is wrong to be openly gay because people are prejudiced let's blame teh gays for this it is clearly their fault!' - it is just so screwed up I can't even...

    And sorry, I can blame people for being bigoted and promoting bigotry.
    TheWaffle and MuChApArAdOx thanked this post.

  6. #66

    I hate the term "common-sense", because it's anything but common. There are so many different life experiences and sometimes a person will miss things growing up that others didn't. When people are constantly questioning their intelligence, eventually they'll put up a wall that when someone genuinely tries to help them understand, they'll get defensive and refuse to listen. I get what you're saying and why you're frustrated, but you have to look at all the others who disagree as just as intelligent with different life experiences that haven't given them the complete picture. If you can treat someone with dignity they'll learn to respect you and your opinion and that's when you have the chance to mold their views.

    You have every right to think that it's stupid. Just remember that once you say it out loud you've most likely lost an opportunity to make a difference where it counts.
    Kanerou, chickydoda, AussieChick and 1 others thanked this post.

  7. #67

    Quote Originally Posted by cue5c View Post
    I hate the term "common-sense", because it's anything but common. There are so many different life experiences and sometimes a person will miss things growing up that others didn't. When people are constantly questioning their intelligence, eventually they'll put up a wall that when someone genuinely tries to help them understand, they'll get defensive and refuse to listen. I get what you're saying and why you're frustrated, but you have to look at all the others who disagree as just as intelligent with different life experiences that haven't given them the complete picture. If you can treat someone with dignity they'll learn to respect you and your opinion and that's when you have the chance to mold their views.

    You have every right to think that it's stupid. Just remember that once you say it out loud you've most likely lost an opportunity to make a difference where it counts.
    I suggest you read up on the derailing/silencing tactic called the tone argument (link here: focusses on racism but applies to any bigotry). People aren't going to stop oppressing homosexuals/lesbians if they just asked more nicely. Seriously.
    thefall thanked this post.

  8. #68

    Quote Originally Posted by lirulin View Post
    I suggest you read up on the derailing/silencing tactic called the tone argument (link here: focusses on racism but applies to any bigotry). People aren't going to stop oppressing homosexuals/lesbians if they just asked more nicely. Seriously.
    I'm not saying you ask more nicely. In fact, I'm not saying you ask at all. The only way that people change with big issues like that is if they think it's their choice. By simply listening to them and not saying their argument is totally ridiculous you allow them to lower their guard. Then you have to build a friendship of respect and eventually your opinions will start becoming theirs. Yes, it takes time, but it's effective.
    chickydoda thanked this post.

  9. #69

    Quote Originally Posted by cue5c View Post
    I'm not saying you ask more nicely. In fact, I'm not saying you ask at all. The only way that people change with big issues like that is if they think it's their choice. By simply listening to them and not saying their argument is totally ridiculous you allow them to lower their guard. Then you have to build a friendship of respect and eventually your opinions will start becoming theirs. Yes, it takes time, but it's effective.
    If you want to cosy up to bigots, then that is your choice. It would make me nauseous.

    Frankly, their dehumanising treatment of gays and lesbians is far more disrespectful than anything I am saying. Tell those assholes to show respect and then maybe I will take you seriously.

  10. #70

    Quote Originally Posted by lirulin View Post
    If you want to cosy up to bigots, then that is your choice. It would make me nauseous.

    Frankly, their dehumanising treatment of gays and lesbians is far more disrespectful than anything I am saying. Tell those assholes to show respect and then maybe I will take you seriously.
    Oh, you're absolutely not saying anything disrespectful! I'm not conveying myself very well, but I just like to make the point that we're all human. I can't rightfully call anyone a bigot, either, but that's just my mind working overtime. I feel like if the people who fed me and raised me told me that being gay was wrong, I'd believe 'em. That's why I like to take on an almost parental role with those people and help them out. Eventually they become a lot less hateful. Not to mention a lot of them are great people outside of their "beliefs". We're all just the sum of our influences after all.

    Of course, there are some people who are beyond hope, but they live in a very different world.
    chickydoda thanked this post.


     
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