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This is a discussion on type interaction videos within the Myers Briggs Forum forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; Originally Posted by eyenexepee For Ones, it's not so much repression, it has a more aggressive feel to me: Splitting ...

  1. #891
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by eyenexepee View Post
    For Ones, it's not so much repression, it has a more aggressive feel to me: Splitting (psychology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Fours split too, from what I understand.) I think Nines do repress, whereas I would expect Eight to actually act. But I'm not too familiar with type Eight ^^;

    -----Very interesting. You and the other INFJ Type-1 I know strike me as two of the most gentle people I know, but I suppose perhaps it is the fear of aggression (inner-aggression), as unfounded or founded as it might be, that might contribute to that outer-gentleness. The Positive Enneagram talks about the relevance of the positioning of a type within a a triad. The center types they call atypical because they are quite unlike the adjoining types in--I still haven't figured out why. Yet anger is still my challenge emotion--oh yes--and in that way the lava within the body types unites us.
    Quote Originally Posted by eyenexepee View Post
    Interesting :) I've been wrestling with identifying my instincts lately and I've come to suspect that I use Sx secondary (deep one-on-one connection) to 'secure' my place in groups and societies, my So dominant. While I can easily be in groups, observing group dynamics and getting a kick out of helping a group grow or realize shared goals, I prefer one-on-one communication. Face to face is simply where I feel I can represent myself the best way.
    Actually makes me wonder if you don't have Sp as dominant or secondary. How sure are you about your instincts

    -----When I read the description in The Positive Enneagram, everything clicked. Here is what happened: I am an SX/SO. I tend to enter the social arena in order to find someone with whom I can forge a deep/non-superficial relationship. I don't mean (just) for a romantic partner (that was nearly 20 years ago, now, anyway)--I mean for friends, too. I was very happy in my very few SX relationships. But life happened. This is difficult for me to share, and I am not sharing in hopes of getting sympathy--it just explains who I am. When I got sick, initially I went to those relationships for help/support, but I found no sympathy, empathy, or compassion. Next, I looked for medical help--venturing outward into the larger social arena. However, this lead nowhere (until last January). I realized that contrary to what I had always believed, that in reality I could depend on no one but myself (that's SP but also Type-7 (3rd in my tritype)). I believe that my journey took me from light (SX) to gray (SO) to darkness (SP). The lightness or darkness of a place is dependent on one's personal instinctual stacking. In darkness, I was in total isolation--not a good place for me.
    -----When I began seeing a therapist (the only one to ever actually help me) (again, in January), she urged/commanded me to go out an socialize. Initially, I strongly resisted that. I had absolutely no desire to see anyone. The people who remained in my life were already draining what energy I had. But then this therapist, an xNFJ herself, shared something with me that would forever change my life: MBTI. I will forever be grateful to her for that.
    -----I found Meetup.com, and I attended a Meetup with MBTI iNtuitives of Los Angeles. Finally, I found a space for me--to be who I am--a place that now seems like home.
    -----And now I am working on coming home in other ways. I no longer believe that "I can depend on no one but myself." No. The truth is, I had just depended on the wrong people. I was barking up the wrong tree--as one of my other INFJ friends puts it. I no longer live in the darkness, but I am not yet back to the light.
    -----This is the journey of an SX/SO.
    Quote Originally Posted by eyenexepee View Post
    Sounds like one of us will start a new thread soon :3 Mention me please as a notification? ;)

    -----If I'm the one to start it, you betcha! I still "owe" quite a bit of work on two or three threads though.
    Quote Originally Posted by eyenexepee View Post
    The openness, warmth and expressed appreciation of both of you :D

    -----Hey, let's include you in that too! Thank you for your openness, warmth, and expressed appreciation!
    Lady Lullaby, renna and illicit iridescence thanked this post.

  2. #892
    ESFP - The Performers

    Quote Originally Posted by pneumoceptor View Post
    Way to do your research, Mr. ESFP! Very very useful information here...

    So you'd agree with SP and SJ as the sensor groupings, and you feel more of an affinity/relatability/similarity with say an ESTP than an ESFJ?

    Thank you for the pronunciation correction. These types of things matter a great deal to me :). How on earth did it happen that you were chatting with Dave Keirsey?
    Well, like I said, he's the head honcho over at the Keirsey.com website, the forum, the Facebook page, etc. So I've interacted with him on there.

    I am definitely, in most ways, more like an ESTP than ESFJ. The main similarity between me and the ESFJ is the aspect of showing sympathy for others' feelings, but even that we show much differently. Like Teddy was saying, that SJ "security seeking" personality comes out in all SJs and runs very contrary to my "sensation seeking." The ESTP is kind of like the more "doesn't give a damn" version of the SP. And I realize that's also a stereotype, but like hornet said, who doesn't like a shortcut? I both admire and am annoyed by ESTPs on a regular basis, including my son!

  3. #893
    Unknown Personality

    Quote Originally Posted by pneumoceptor View Post
    This is a valid point, that the MBTI four letter system obscures these things. If we broke it down based on cog functions, though, it still would be asymmetrical:

    SJs: Si in first or second position, Ne in third or fourth position
    SPs: Se in first or second position, Ni in third or fourth position
    NFs: no cognitive function present in (top four functions of) all four types
    NTs: no cognitive function present in (top four functions of) all four types

    As far as temperaments being easier to spot than MBTI types... I think this might be true of extraverts, but I'm not sure how true it is of introverts. Maybe it's still true, but just to a lesser extent than with extraverts... To a casual observer, INTP looks like INFP, for example. You have to get to know the person and peel back some strong outer introvert shells before you get at which judging function is being used.

    I've noticed that about Keirsey's types, that N's don't have cognitive functions in common. I meant that if Keirsey had divorced his method entirely from MBTI at the beginning and just had 4 temperaments called Rationals, Idealists, Artisans, Guardians, there likely wouldn't have been an issue of asymmetry. It's like dividing people into such categories as Teachers, Healers, Warriors, Visionaries (Angeles Arrien) where there isn't an issue of asymmetry, more a concern that the 4 types cover everyone. Also, I'm not sure if I'm understanding but I meant that Keirsey's types might be easier to spot than the way classic MBTI authors tend to divide into temperaments (NT, NF, ST, SF).

    What does this mean? As in there's an actual, concrete feature of people that correlates with certain subgroupings?

    The full name of the book I was referring to was "Compass of the Soul; Archetypal Guides to a Fuller Life," by John L. Giannini (with a foreword by John Beebe and a Preface by Mary McCaulley). I haven't read the book but am borrowing it from a friend. The second half seems to be divided into various chapters which are reporting on different authors' views of MBTI's NT, NF, ST, SF temperaments. For example, there's a chapter based on a method from a book called Psychetypes, by Michael Malone, which divides in this way:

    NT: Aetherials
    NF: Oceanics
    SF: Volcanics/Experials
    ST: Territorials/Structurals

    The S's have 2 names because I guess they've been updated since the book. As an aside, that system seems fascinating in that it's another method of translating Jung. The SF's and NT's are said to be focused on internal substance (SF concrete vs. NT abstract) and the ST's and NF's are focused on structure (ST structured and doing vs. NF without boundaries and being). Another section of Giannini's book divides the 4 types into:

    NT: Magician
    NF: Lover
    SF: King/Queen
    ST: Warrior

    Giannini's point seems to be that Jung meant for function "couplings" (the 2 functions together, such as SF) to be archetypes, with the first part of the book discussing Jung and the second part trying to prove Giannini's archetypal theory. The book is about 550 pages. One thing of interest is that various authors are introduced in the book, such as the Osmond Group/Michael Malone, off of which there seems to be much new info to follow through with. :)

    Yeah, these different categorizations definitely push the impressions of specific types in different directions. This is why I think that one subgrouping must be the best. If it's not, and a certain type doesn't jive better with one subgrouping or another, this means to me that it's not a 'true' type... if it can't be generalized. I don't know if this makes sense...
    I've always thought it odd that in my search for 4-temperament methods, I'll find one that has 3 categories exactly the same as another method, but the 4th categories in the 2 methods have nothing in common. How could that be? It frequently has me shaking my head over the weirdness of it all. ;)

    OK, J/P is the strongest for you. Hmm. But do you mean in terms of cog functions? Because underlyingly, that's what J vs P dictates.

    What do you think your type is ;)?
    I have no idea what my type is. I seem to be a half-as***, or more politely half-hearted, N, S, T, F, doing all of them pretty much equally yet not being particularly good at any. I've always thought of myself as a generalist. When I took the official MBTI test plus every test I could find online, I always test strongly T, yet I seem to fit F descriptions better. I also seem to see the world through many of Jung's functions, such as Fi and Ti. I tend to be more focused on ideas than on relationships, though the ideas are frequently about relationships. If someone can give me a blood test or brain scan with the definitive answer, I'd be a happy camper. ;) The one thing I know for sure is that I spend quite a bit more time taking in information than deciding and I've found it best to have friends who are happy to research and talk ad infinitum about everything from the state of the world to conspiracy theories to is there life after death or even reincarnation to the best biking trails and states to visit. It's not that I never decide, but I sometimes base my decisions on logic, sometimes on values, and many ideas are open to revision with more info.

    @Fat Bozo , do you happen to know much about Keirsey's system or are able to ask? After reading Personology, I realized I act like SP's, have beliefs like NF's, and think like NT's, so I'm not sure which to put the most emphasis on. When I take his tests in the book the 3 come out equal.
    Inveniet, pneumoceptor and Geoffrey thanked this post.

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  5. #894

    @Geoffrey and @eyenexepee I'll reply to these lovely posts further via PM so as not to derail the thread. Thanks sooo much for the indepth and thoughtful replies you've shared here.
    Geoffrey thanked this post.

  6. #895
    Unknown Personality

    To add to Fat Bozo's #865 post, in the book Personology, Keirsey says on page 18, "I soon found it useful to sort Myers's sixteen so-called 'psychological types' into four bins, two of which she herself suggested that all four of what she referred to as the 'intuiting-feeling' type ('NF') were alike in many ways, and that all four of the 'intuiting-thinking' type ('NT') were alike in many ways. Unfortunately, she added that the 'sensing-feeling' ('SF') types were alike in many ways and that 'sensing-thinking' ('ST') types were alike in many ways. I say 'unfortunately' because there is no way to observe what thoughts and feelings people have, whether, as she guesses, such thoughts and feeling are intuitive or sensory."

    Keirsey also goes on to say, "Owing to Jung's rambling account of 'psychological processes' in his book Psychological Types (1920), what Myers called 'sensing-thinking' types do not act alike, nor do what she called 'sensing-feeling' types act alike. Indeed, the action of the two groups is observably different and even radically so."

    Edit: When I posted the above I thought it said something different than it does and would bring more clarity. The site doesn't allow "unposts" so I'm leaving it here even though it doesn't really clear things up, since we can't observe thoughts and feelings in N's yet that's what we're expected to do. But I guess what he's trying to say is that the actions of NF's and NT's are different enough to distinguish, as are the actions of SP's and SJ's, but for some reason not those of SF's and ST's.
    Last edited by Meadow; 10-05-2012 at 02:40 PM.
    Inveniet and pneumoceptor thanked this post.

  7. #896
    INFJ - The Protectors

    @amanda32 and I had a Beijing-San Diego INFP-INFJ conversation about friendships/relationships between, you guessed it, INFPs and INFJs. It's a super feely, people-oriented two-hour conversation, so be warned!

    Inveniet, Lady Lullaby, teddy564339 and 8 others thanked this post.

  8. #897
    Unknown Personality

    I just want to say that, among the videos I've seen, this set is the one that resonated with me the most. When you mentioned knowing there's a shift in a relationship despite being reassured by the other person, the lump crept into my throat.

    I've been pretty much a quiet observer of these interactions, but I felt like the "Thanks" button wasn't enough this time.
    Lady Lullaby, renna, pneumoceptor and 1 others thanked this post.

  9. #898

    Quote Originally Posted by pneumoceptor View Post
    @amanda32 and I had a Beijing-San Diego INFP-INFJ conversation about friendships/relationships between, you guessed it, INFPs and INFJs. It's a super feely, people-oriented two-hour conversation, so be warned!
    This might be cliche - but it's still very true:

    I want to just send out a big NF ((Hug)) to both of you! There was a lot of hurt and disappointment and sad stuff hidden behind smiles and smirks in this video. Why do we do that? hehe Why do we smile when we want to cry? We feel silly right? We wish we weren't feeling so deeply. . .sigh. . .

    Right off- I wanted to give my two-cents worth on the compliments question at the beginning from @amanda32. I think I was only suspicious of compliments given from males when I was single LOL. Not so much now because they can't have an ulterior motive because I'm taken. Also, I am suspicious of compliments if given by strangers or in the workplace etc. But if it is from family and friends, I simply feel loved and noticed. The times I'm embarrassed from receiving compliments is if it is in front of others, especially a bigger group. If it is in private just one-on-one, again, I'm very touched and feel loved and noticed.

    As an INFJ - to add to the 'numbers' of who feels what way, to help determine if it is MBTI or not - when it comes to others coming to me and wanting to talk about an issue in our relationship - - I don't ever have anyone do that! Seriously! I feel like I'm always the one bringing things up. Maybe they Think they are bringing something up and it went over my head because it wasn't asked directly and I had no clue there was an issue (which would surprise me honestly) - - but I am not a mindreader (sorry NFs, we're really not, although we feel we are lol) and that could very well have happened. My ENTP sister once shared some hurt feelings and we worked it through but it was after I was bringing up something with her first. The only time I can imagine avoiding relationship issues would be if all trust was lost, I was hurting too much and I needed to let the pain settle a bit so I could think clearly. But usually that sort of pain is happening in private and only when I'm ready to talk about it does it come out because others usually don't seem to know until I say something.
    @amanda32 - I'm loving your questions!!

    I wasn't ever jealous in a friendship until this year with an INTJ. I know I've witnessed an ISTJ friend of mine become jealous when I was making other friends and I felt so sad that she didn't want to know the friends I was making or know that our relationship was still treasured and not threatened by me meeting new people. Well - when I found that I had seen my INTJ friend as more special to me than she saw me in her life - I was (I'm embarrassed to admit) jealous of her friendship with a different neighbor. I think in this tender state, when my ENTP sister talked about her sister-in-law that she misses a lot after moving away and living closer to me - I found I was jealous of that to a degree. I still liked her sister-in-law and was happy they were close, but felt bad that I wasn't 'enough' once she was here to help her 'not miss' her sister-in-law. I see how silly that is now. After admitting my feelings to my ENTP sister I felt better. It became a non-issue. For me, just expressing it and feeling it for the moment made it 'swim away' on its own. I think it bothered my ENTP sister - she admitted keeping some of what she'd been feeling about her move from me because she didn't want to increase my jealousy and then that created distance for us for a time. If someone else told me they were jealous I'd feel sad for them and just want to encourage them. (I'm answering these before I hear @pneumoceptor's responses btw because I want to see if how I feel is similar before knowing her answer.)

    I probably should stop here though - nobody wants to hear my personal opinion on every little question. Sigh. . .just one of my favorite topics - 'friendships' - so it's hard to hold back. If either @pneumoceptor or @amanda32 wants to talk about it further, I'd enjoy a PM chat. Time to just keep watching and enjoying.

    Thanks for sharing and being vulnerable and open with us!!

    Edit: There are also a lot of adorable smiles and smirks of mutual 'like' about each other in this video. Mmmm...so fun....I was giggling and smiling a lot while I watched this second video.
    Last edited by Lady Lullaby; 10-06-2012 at 12:10 AM. Reason: spelling
    pneumoceptor, Geoffrey and Meadow thanked this post.

  10. #899
    INFJ - The Protectors

    [email protected]amanda32 & @pneumoceptor : Thanks for a great video you two!
    -----pneumoceptor, I know this must have been a difficult video to make, so I really appreciate you doing it. I think it will be helpful to many INFPs and INFJs.
    -----Compliments: I agree that an inability to accept compliments is a symptom (see: Top Ten Facts about Low Self Esteem). Now, if someone gives me a compliment, before I say anything else, I just say, "Thank You." It is just as important to receive the love and affection of others as to give it.
    -----Methodology: pneumoceptor, in watching you try to understand amanda32's perspective, I saw you use the same methodology as I do. The way you ask questions--always trying to get to what's behind it all.
    -----Te/Ti: Recently, I've come to the conclusion that the miscommunication my wife (ISTJ) and I end up stuck in results more from a Te/Ti conflict than anything else. Ti is about understanding the "why"--about understanding how another person thinks. Te doesn't care about how another person comes to a conclusion--it just wants agreement. I believe that this difference is part of what causes some of the INFP/INFJ conflict. We use Ti, and Ti is often found offensive to Te. INFPs have inferior Te, so they hate it (until the process of integration) but they unconsciously use it.
    -----Spontaneous time: I found what you said to be very true. That time is indeed precious--I can't be spontaneous all the time--so I have to save it for the special people in my life.
    -----INFJs and their Relationship Expectations: Andrea suggests that INFJs get dissatisfied in relationships because they approach it as a problem to be solved--and people are not merely problems to be solved. In fact, people cannot be solved ("
    I suspect it isn’t the relationship problems themselves that lead to the INFJs’ dissatisfaction; it’s the fact that the problems can’t be solved": The INFJ Personality and the Search for the Perfect Relationship « Andrea J. Wenger: Write*with*Personality).
    -----Personally, I've not had the same "relationship expectations" problem that so many INFJs seem to have. Stephen Montgomery's The Pygmalion Project III helped me realize that everyone, Idealists concluded, are prone to starting Pygmalion projects. I encourage a search for inner depth in people--and I have come to realize that I was indeed assuming that that journey is right for everyone. But it is not. Personal autonomy is extraordinarily important to me, so I don't project expectations, and I am not easily disappointed with people. They have to live with their choices, so it is totally up to them what choices they make. I wonder if this is an Enneagram thing? My other theory is that the INFJ brain is wired to be OCD-like (or often just OCD). There is a form of OCD called Relationship OCD (R-OCD) (
    ROCD.ORG) that sounds a lot like the issues some INFJs face. I'm not diagnosing anyone--I'm just saying that the "locked in" way of thinking associated with OCD is very similar to what some INFJs report. I read somewhere that the harder one is on oneself, the easier it is to be hard on others. My OCD-like or OCD behavior is far more inner-directed: I hold myself to extraordinarily high standards, but I see others as unique--with every experience chipping away at a block of marble and creating a masterpiece beneath. I don't see others as flawed--but instead as masterpieces. I don't know what to make of it all, but I thought I'd share.
    -----Again, thanks to you both for sharing--it is truly appreciated.
    Lady Lullaby, pneumoceptor and Meadow thanked this post.

  11. #900
    Unknown Personality

    LOL @Lady Lullaby, I felt the same way about the video, saving up much in my mind to say, even wishing I had my own microphone, and I've only watched Part 1 so far. I'm likely Pe and wish I knew more so it could help with understanding MBTI functions.

    I didn't realize until watching the video that I don't compliment people very much, or maybe it's hidden in with my enthusiastic supporting of people and belief in their being able to create what they want with their lives.

    Listening to jealousy issues between females was interesting. Since I mainly have male friends, not easily understanding how females think overall, it was a surprise when I ended up with a best female friend on the internet for 2 years. It was my first adult female friendship and I loved her like a sister. She was INFP and, like another INFP friend I had, she could shine her spotlight of caring on me so strongly that it made me feel the most special person in the world. When she'd head off and do it with someone else, and on forums you can watch everything, lol, I'd sometimes feel jealousy, to the point where I even cried once. I kept rolling my eyes at myself because this person was female, not male, and what the heck was I thinking? It helped that my husband understood I rarely had female relationships and helped me through the difficult times. She eventually left forum land and since writing dozens of PMs most days was tiring and she didn't want to phone, it was fine that our relationship ended, though I miss her at times. I'd always felt strange being jealous about a female - I hardly ever feel jealousy even with males - so I was glad to hear I'm not the only person who has experienced this emotion with regard to the same gender.

    As to the smothering issue, I've been on both sides and know it's uncomfortable no matter what side you're on, but maybe more with the needy person since they're likely more concerned with the possibility of loss. When I pulled out of one of those relationships where I was smothering, I realized that I'd been using him to avoid my own issues, so it was a helpful relationship in terms of understanding myself better. On the other side, I broke off an engagement with one of the the best relationships I've had because I was too young to know how to deal with his smothering issues.

    I agreed with @pneumoceptor when she said she needs to have relationships transparent, straightforward, understood, or however it was phrased. I'm the same way, to the point if someone isn't willing to deal with issues no matter how long it takes, I can't be a serious friend. Communication is center to my life and I've been able, with some persistence, to work out many issues, but I've found it to be a little difficult to find people willing to work out issues to that extent - sometimes willing to work them out at all - in order to have the most stress-free relationship.

    Many of the ways I view the world are enough like pneumoceptor's that I wonder if I have a strong Ni or a Ti or Fe in common or if it's something outside MBTI.

    I just remembered another issue and wanted to give feedback. In this way pneumoceptor and I are very different. In my personal life, almost everything is spontaneous and I need that as much as pneumoceptor needs daily structure. Since I live that constantly, I would never have known how important I was to a friend who was willing to give up their structure for my spontaneity needs. I would have just thought it was life as usual. ;) Before learning about MBTI, I thought the entire world was somewhat spontaneous since I just naturally chose friends who were, or at least seemed to be, that way.

    A very interesting video. Thanks to both!

    Edit: I just read @Geoffrey's post and it seems like the videos have touched on something many people have an interest in. It was a good idea to share ideas on a subject outside MBTI to compare how different types see the world.
    Lady Lullaby, pneumoceptor and Geoffrey thanked this post.

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