Have you experienced functions outside of your function stack... on purpose? - Page 2

Have you experienced functions outside of your function stack... on purpose?

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This is a discussion on Have you experienced functions outside of your function stack... on purpose? within the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers forums, part of the Keirsey Temperament Forums category; Originally Posted by IDontThinkSo Nardi's work is nothing but a gigantic fallacy of the converse. He has yet to demonstrate ...

  1. #11

    Quote Originally Posted by IDontThinkSo View Post
    Nardi's work is nothing but a gigantic fallacy of the converse. He has yet to demonstrate that his descriptions of types are consistent with their supposed underlying mechanisms, not the other way round. If you call a frog a water lily, portray it as a water lily, search for water lilies in the wild and say, look, it's the evidence that frogs exist! what you do then is running the scientific wheel backward.

    And that's the problem with nardi and all the introverts who try to be scientists and should stick to writing fictions instead.

    If you only understand that frogs live close to water and are green, and instead of questioning the relation between those symptoms and frogs, you use them as proof of you observing frog, then any water lily will confirm that you're observing a frog. So what happens if there's an actual frog among dozens of water lilies? Nardi would call that.. a lack of statistical significance.

    Statistics are no science, just like playing with scanners, having a phd and writing books. Oh, actually he isn't a neuroscientist? Fantastic. Faith in academy a little bit restored.
    You can think what you want to, dude.

  2. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by Aridela View Post
    I swear if a Te user tells me to quote my sources one more time, I might scream XD
    That thing I happened to read 3 years ago? Which pocket did I place it in? It’s probably stapled to my glasses. Ahh yes... here it is.

    Ah, yes Archaeology seems to be littered with Ti users for some reason (mostly ISTPs/INFJs). It was the only discipline I felt I really fit in, both in the field and in the lab. Sometimes I wonder why I left it, then I remember how poorly the pay was and the fact that I had to wash myself in a river for a 3 month period, and I come back to my senses.
    .
    This keeps me humble. I keep wondering about going back to get an anthropology PhD

    Yes, that's how I experience it as well. It's almost as if you're detaching yourself from your ego (as in your experiences/identity) and you're seeing things from a higher dimension/bird's eye view.
    Thank you for this description. I was eager to hear it. It would make sense as I built a new identity in another language and had to see both cultures. So interesting.

    Also, my ISTP dad speaks many languages and can pick up new ones easily. Do you wonder if languages have an affiliation with TI perhaps? Although there must be other functions to learn them too. I wonder if I can look into that a bit.

  3. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by Llyralen View Post
    You can think what you want to, dude.
    Actually not. For example, even if I wanted to think that your answer has anything to do with what you quoted, I couldn't produce such thoughts.

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  5. #14

    Quote Originally Posted by Llyralen View Post
    This keeps me humble. I keep wondering about going back to get an anthropology PhD
    Why do you say that? Re the archeaology? I was but a lowly member of the staff, nothing fancy.

    I think you should, it's never too late. I'm in my thirties now and about to complete a Master's (in a different, completely unrelated science). Not sure I could stomach a PhD right now, but perhaps later on, on a (very) part time basis.


    Thank you for this description. I was eager to hear it. It would make sense as I built a new identity in another language and had to see both cultures. So interesting.
    Yes, me too, which almost makes me feel like I have multiple personalities at times, but can't help it - it's how the mind works.

    Also, my ISTP dad speaks many languages and can pick up new ones easily. Do you wonder if languages have an affiliation with TI perhaps? Although there must be other functions to learn them too. I wonder if I can look into that a bit.
    It is possible. My great-grandmother was the only person I've known to be speaking fluently 20+ languages, and I'm pretty sure she was XSTP. She was infamous for being very demanding and difficult to please, but we've always meshed really well. I remember her getting random long-distance calls from friends all over the world (when this sort of thing was very expensive). I would pick up the phone and never know what language the person on the other line would be speaking - I remember thinking it was rather exciting. Or, we'd watch Mexican telenovelas or Italian black and white movies on TV and she would cover the (Greek) subtitles and have me translate for her (I didn't know either language, that was her way of 'teaching' me I guess XD). And all the while she'd have me sew buttons or some other task to increase the difficulty (she was a seamstress). No wonder my ENFJ grandmother hated her :D
    Llyralen thanked this post.

  6. #15

    Quote Originally Posted by Aridela View Post
    Why do you say that? Re the archeaology? I was but a lowly member of the staff, nothing fancy.

    I think you should, it's never too late. I'm in my thirties now and about to complete a Master's (in a different, completely unrelated science). Not sure I could stomach a PhD right now, but perhaps later on, on a (very) part time basis.
    Keeps me humble since I'm always picturing the finding and analyzing part of things, not the digging digging digging. Well, my degree is nutrition/dietetics. There are nutrition+anthropology degrees out there. Pretty cool, but I'd have to move. I'm raising my kids in a fantastic place, imo and actually I don't think I'd leave here. But there are degrees online, etc.
    What areas are you going to study now?


    Yes, me too, which almost makes me feel like I have multiple personalities at times, but can't help it - it's how the mind works.
    I sometimes feel somewhat detached for a few days after reading about a bunch of archaeology digs.

    It is possible. My great-grandmother was the only person I've known to be speaking fluently 20+ languages, and I'm pretty sure she was XSTP. She was infamous for being very demanding and difficult to please, but we've always meshed really well. I remember her getting random long-distance calls from friends all over the world (when this sort of thing was very expensive). I would pick up the phone and never know what language the person on the other line would be speaking - I remember thinking it was rather exciting. Or, we'd watch Mexican telenovelas or Italian black and white movies on TV and she would cover the (Greek) subtitles and have me translate for her (I didn't know either language, that was her way of 'teaching' me I guess XD). And all the while she'd have me sew buttons or some other task to increase the difficulty (she was a seamstress). No wonder my ENFJ grandmother hated her :D
    I would have been just as excited! 20+ it's amazing! I don't think my dad rivals that... but I don't know. He's 84 but still picks up languages whenever he goes anywhere. He's super good with accents. A few years ago he volunteered for a place in Germany where people who belong to our church came from all over Europe and he learned to welcome people and do tours in each language and people thought he could cover all subjects but he usually spoke back and did okay from what my mom tells me. She got pretty blown away by him speaking Hungarian to an excited family one day. I do think it's exciting and something to be proud of. But the translations plus sewing is just so....really cool imo as long as she wasn't harsh.
    Aridela and Sour Roses thanked this post.

  7. #16

    Quote Originally Posted by Llyralen View Post
    Keeps me humble since I'm always picturing the finding and analyzing part of things, not the digging digging digging. Well, my degree is nutrition/dietetics. There are nutrition+anthropology degrees out there. Pretty cool, but I'd have to move. I'm raising my kids in a fantastic place, imo and actually I don't think I'd leave here. But there are degrees online, etc.
    What areas are you going to study now?
    Almost finished, writing my dissertation as we speak.

    I'm doing Chemoinformatics now, which is basically using programming for drug discovery and for tackling other chemistry related problems. Not entirely different to what I did when in Archaeology actually (was specialising in Ceramics/Glass Chemistry) but nothing to do with digging.


    I would have been just as excited! 20+ it's amazing! I don't think my dad rivals that... but I don't know. He's 84 but still picks up languages whenever he goes anywhere. He's super good with accents. A few years ago he volunteered for a place in Germany where people who belong to our church came from all over Europe and he learned to welcome people and do tours in each language and people thought he could cover all subjects but he usually spoke back and did okay from what my mom tells me. She got pretty blown away by him speaking Hungarian to an excited family one day. I do think it's exciting and something to be proud of. But the translations plus sewing is just so....really cool imo as long as she wasn't harsh.
    According to my grandma she was really harsh as a parent, but I never experienced it first hand. Tbh it must have been difficult raising a mouthy, uber extraverted ENFJ right after WW2, so a lot of the harshness my grandmother experienced could be more due to circumstance rather than any of my great-grandma's character flaws. Or maybe she was indeed a tough parent - if anything I think my grandmother was too permissive, maybe in overcompensation.
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  8. #17

    IMHO MBTI function stacks are fairly arbitrary. Don't think Jung would have approved.

    That said, I stick to whatever porridge my cranium is filled with. I don't go borrowing.
    Llyralen thanked this post.

  9. #18

    Quote Originally Posted by Llyralen View Post
    What makes you feel you are using Ni when depressed? TI gets mad sometimes— But you feel you’re using Te instead of TI? What makes you tell the difference at that moment? Can you explain?
    Well normally my mind doesnt stop, and with Ne every step is connected and all reasoning can be traced. So in a depressed state its like my mind is numb and then I have these light bulb moments where answers are formed strait from the subconscious without me knowing how. Its really quite freaky when out of nowhere the solution pops into your head. Te moment make me feel like a psychopath. Literally everything is turned into simple mathmatics including the value of a life. I basically feel inhuman when I catch myself doing it. Very different to Ti considering of all possibilities to find the most suitable outcome.
    Llyralen thanked this post.

  10. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrodingers drink View Post
    Well normally my mind doesnt stop, and with Ne every step is connected and all reasoning can be traced. So in a depressed state its like my mind is numb and then I have these light bulb moments where answers are formed strait from the subconscious without me knowing how. Its really quite freaky when out of nowhere the solution pops into your head. Te moment make me feel like a psychopath. Literally everything is turned into simple mathmatics including the value of a life. I basically feel inhuman when I catch myself doing it. Very different to Ti considering of all possibilities to find the most suitable outcome.
    Oh interesting. Okay, yes, I've felt those light bulb Ni moments especially when I first wake up. You feeling Te is like when I experienced Fe in a way. With opposite problems, basically. When I felt Fe I couldn't assert with others the thing I knew was the right thing to do... I felt like I didn't have Ti along with Fe in order to do what I usually am hired to do at work. For you with Te you wouldn't have Fi as backup to temper the Te.

    That's exactly the kind of thing I wanted to hear about what people's experiences were like with feeling like the supporting structure isn't there. It's really interesting.

  11. #20
    Unknown

    I don't believe in the function stack as you know, in the sense that our two inferior functions are beneficial when tapped into.
    Since personality is all about what you reinforce and the interplay between strong and weak preferences, there may be moments that the weaker attitude is expressed along with those weak functions but it usually feels negative. Such cases are usually under stress and worsen it, make me feel like I did something very wrong, or I'm bullshitting myself, the latter especially in the case of Ni.

    "Fe" and "Te" (or FI and TI by Jung) are about manipulating/changing the environment, asserting your will on others etc so when I do this I tend to feel insecure, guilty, etc.

    With NI I just feel like I'm bullshitting myself, because I'm connecting information in a confirmation biasy way, since that's what NI does mostly. So I quickly find more information to undo that.

    Whenever such things happen it feels strange to me, kinda "unnatural", which I recognize as what preferences are about basically. They "feel" wrong and have negative results (i.e. stress).

    In contrast, "Ti" doesn't feel unnatural/wrong or stressful, it just feels tiresome to sustain for long.


     
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