Have you experienced functions outside of your function stack... on purpose?

Have you experienced functions outside of your function stack... on purpose?

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This is a discussion on Have you experienced functions outside of your function stack... on purpose? within the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers forums, part of the Keirsey Temperament Forums category; ...

  1. #1

    Have you experienced functions outside of your function stack... on purpose?

    I’ve met a few people through PersonalityCafe who have worked on experiencing functions outside of their stack. Have you? Would you please share?

    My experience:
    I worked on experiencing Fe. I pondered the description and asked people questions and I imagined what Te would be like if it had to do with group morals and feelings rather than group principals. Anyway, it worked for a day. It was wonderful at home but I didn’t feel like I could do my job the way I usually do and didn’t think I had experience to use it well or the right supporting functions and so I then focused on my internal feelings which slowly intensified to my normal and Fe faded and disappeared.

    It was an incredible feeling when I’d woken up with it and I was able to explore all the questions that I’d had about Fe before this experience, like values— which are mostly all about harmony. That need for harmony was intense— harmony was the new right or wrong. Sincerity? It was all about that harmony. Harmony was the new sincerity. Harmony with my husband the most intense, harmony with kids and harmony with my co-workers last but still important. It was fascinating, actually, and I wasn’t able to talk to my husband about it because he was asleep.and I needed to get up for work— but feeling love for him from... hmm... basically from a different direction (?) extroverted instead of introverted was awesome. I loved it. The whole thing was pretty mind blowing.


    But I KNOW I’m not the only one who has had these experiences. For the other people who did this who I talked to it took some work and contemplation as well.
    Last edited by Llyralen; 07-24-2019 at 09:41 PM.
    Sour Roses, ultracrepidarian and AnneM thanked this post.



  2. #2

    Well I go Ni in a depressed state and Te in an angry state. Theoretically I could deliberately work myself up, but its pretty unnatural for me to want to loose control to access functions that feel pretty uncomfortable.

  3. #3

    I can use Te rather well, if I have to; it still annoys me though.

    I like Ni, but it doesn't come naturally to me either. However, it feels good using it, if that makes sense. It has the precision my Ne lacks. Good for planning ahead, but I really need to be in a focused, determined state of mind to access it.

    Using Se makes me mentally tired; not even joking. Paying attention to the world around me is draining. Nothing else is more draining to me.

    Fi outbursts make me chuckle more often than not, but I like Fi as long as it's tempered by Ne. Fi/Se combo can be very selfish in my experience.
    Sour Roses, Llyralen and AnneM thanked this post.

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  5. #4

    We can only train functions and attitudes outside of our personality by changing our personality, or by being wrong about what our personality is made of. Humans are no RPG characters.

    A strong preference is built AND maintained out of strongly neglecting to train its antagonist. The ability to even train an antagonist or crave to, implies that the preference was weak enough to allow it in the first place.

    Besides, no cognitive function can exist outside of the cognitive stack, unless the latter is incorrect.
    Red Panda and Llyralen thanked this post.

  6. #5

    Quote Originally Posted by IDontThinkSo View Post
    We can only train functions and attitudes outside of our personality by changing our personality, or by being wrong about what our personality is made of. Humans are no RPG characters.

    A strong preference is built AND maintained out of strongly neglecting to train its antagonist. The ability to even train an antagonist or crave to, implies that the preference was weak enough to allow it in the first place.

    Besides, no cognitive function can exist outside of the cognitive stack, unless the latter is incorrect.
    You sound pretty confident about how you think of how we use functions, but at least Dario Nardi the neuroscientist would disagree. He talks about monitoring his brain function when he is meditating and that what his brain does in that state looks like an ISFP (he’s a INTJ) and he said also he had a ESTJ who had been trained an a shaman. When in the middle of a shaman trace the man’s brain was using the areas and patterns that INFJs usually use.

  7. #6

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrodingers drink View Post
    Well I go Ni in a depressed state and Te in an angry state. Theoretically I could deliberately work myself up, but its pretty unnatural for me to want to loose control to access functions that feel pretty uncomfortable.
    What makes you feel you are using Ni when depressed? TI gets mad sometimes— But you feel you’re using Te instead of TI? What makes you tell the difference at that moment? Can you explain?

  8. #7

    Quote Originally Posted by Aridela View Post
    I can use Te rather well, if I have to; it still annoys me though.

    I like Ni, but it doesn't come naturally to me either. However, it feels good using it, if that makes sense. It has the precision my Ne lacks. Good for planning ahead, but I really need to be in a focused, determined state of mind to access it.

    Using Se makes me mentally tired; not even joking. Paying attention to the world around me is draining. Nothing else is more draining to me.

    Fi outbursts make me chuckle more often than not, but I like Fi as long as it's tempered by Ne. Fi/Se combo can be very selfish in my experience.
    Me too on using Ni which I think I was taught to use when praying most of life—it takes concentration and feels awesome. Fi can be selfish from my experience with either Ne or Se, or very self-less depending on the person’s values. There’s that passion about ideas (Ne) or things (Se) with both Fi or Ti.
    Te is annoying even when natural, isn’t it? Lol.

    I think everything you’re saying you experience is legit.

    I experienced Ti a bit (and a bit continuing) when I first learned a new language and culture. I think I had to learn that kind of detachment from my own culture in order to see both cultures and then I continue to use it when I’m analyzing experiment methods and results or when I’m reading about archaeology digs for some reason. It’s very interesting— it feels like a pulling-away from my own mind, imo. Do you think that is legit? Or that I could just be using my normal functions for that? I think with the cultures I had to be able to Ti some— I think— and I think I had to have that complete objectivity, but maybe this isn’t how you experience it? Which would make me question whether this experience were legitimately Ti or not.

    The Fe experience since it was so mind-blowing and since I was able to answer all these questions I’d been pondering for weeks but unable to internalize since I hadn’t felt Fe ever— so I think it was truly a walk to Fe-land without leaving my Ne. For a 1/2 day anyway.
    Last edited by Llyralen; 07-25-2019 at 06:36 PM.
    Aridela and Sour Roses thanked this post.

  9. #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Llyralen View Post
    My too on using Ni which I think I was taught to use when praying most of life—it takes concentration and feels awesome. Fi can be selfish from my experience with either Ne or Se, or very self-less depending on the person’s values. There’s that passion about ideas (Ne) or things (Se) with both Fi or TI.
    Te is annoying even when natural, isn’t it? Lol.

    I think everything you’re saying you experience is legit.

    I experienced TI a bit (and a bit continuing) when I first learned a new language and culture. I think I had to learn that kind of detachment from my own culture in order to see both cultures and then I continue to use it when I’m analyzing experiment methods and results or when I’m reading about archeology digs for some reason. It’s very interesting— it feels like a pulling-away from my own mind, imo. Do you think that is legit? Or that I could just be using my normal functions for that? I think with the cultures I had to be able to TI some— I think— and I think I had to have that complete objectivity, but maybe this isn’t how you experience it? Which would make me question whether this experience were legitimately Ti or not.

    The Fe experience since it was so mind-blowing and since I was able to answer all these questions I’d been pondering for weeks but unable to internalize since I hadn’t felt Fe ever— so I think it was truly a walk to Fe-land without leaving my Ne. For a 1/2 day anyway.
    I swear if a Te user tells me to quote my sources one more time, I might scream XD


    Ah, yes Archaeology seems to be littered with Ti users for some reason (mostly ISTPs/INFJs). It was the only discipline I felt I really fit in, both in the field and in the lab. Sometimes I wonder why I left it, then I remember how poorly the pay was and the fact that I had to wash myself in a river for a 3 month period, and I come back to my senses.

    It’s very interesting— it feels like a pulling-away from my own mind, imo. Do you think that is legit? Or that I could just be using my normal functions for that? I think with the cultures I had to be able to TI some— I think— and I think I had to have that complete objectivity, but maybe this isn’t how you experience it? Which would make me question whether this experience were legitimately Ti or not.
    Yes, that's how I experience it as well. It's almost as if you're detaching yourself from your ego (as in your experiences/identity) and you're seeing things from a higher dimension/bird's eye view.
    Last edited by Aridela; 07-25-2019 at 08:53 AM.
    Llyralen thanked this post.

  10. #9

    I'm sure I have. I'm perfectly capable of coming up with multiple ideas / possibilities (Ne) and holding personal values and some sense of identity (Fi). These are easy enough for me to grasp and express, but it's clear strong Fi and Ne users rely much more on them.

    Si or Te are very tiresome to focus on and rather confusing to me but I'm sure there's cases where I express them too. (Life finds ways to force you to delve into these much weaker functions).
    Last edited by Hexigoon; 07-25-2019 at 09:30 AM.
    Llyralen thanked this post.

  11. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by Llyralen View Post
    You sound pretty confident about how you think of how we use functions, but at least Dario Nardi the neuroscientist would disagree. He talks about monitoring his brain function when he is meditating and that what his brain does in that state looks like an ISFP (he’s a INTJ) and he said also he had a ESTJ who had been trained an a shaman. When in the middle of a shaman trace the man’s brain was using the areas and patterns that INFJs usually use.
    Nardi's work is nothing but a gigantic fallacy of the converse. He has yet to demonstrate that his descriptions of types are consistent with their supposed underlying mechanisms, not the other way round. If you call a frog a water lily, portray it as a water lily, search for water lilies in the wild and say, look, it's the evidence that frogs exist! what you do then is running the scientific wheel backward.

    And that's the problem with nardi and all the introverts who try to be scientists and should stick to writing fictions instead.

    If you only understand that frogs live close to water and are green, and instead of questioning the relation between those symptoms and frogs, you use them as proof of you observing frog, then any water lily will confirm that you're observing a frog. So what happens if there's an actual frog among dozens of water lilies? Nardi would call that.. a lack of statistical significance.

    Statistics are no science, just like playing with scanners, having a phd and writing books. Oh, actually he isn't a neuroscientist? Fantastic. Faith in academy a little bit restored.


     
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