NF's and Sensors

NF's and Sensors

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This is a discussion on NF's and Sensors within the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers forums, part of the Keirsey Temperament Forums category; How do they interact?...

  1. #1

    NF's and Sensors

    How do they interact?



  2. #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Beetlejuice View Post
    How do they interact?
    I relate more to some sensors than I do to NF - after all Nf is consisted of enfp infp enfj and infj -

    So if we’re talking about xsfp - I find them more relatable due to sharing the same functions ( Fi-Te) and being perceivers -

    Hmm I interact well with sensors - closest person to me in my life is my esfp cousin- she understands me thoroughly inside out- we get along great due to our love of talking ethics - emotion- humanity - trends - sports and entertainment. She stands up for me more than anyone I know and I trust her with my emotions more than anyone is this world

    My son is an estp- his energy level is over the type and can drain me out sometimes- however we get along great , he’s very sweet, adaptable and easily excited - he’s very impulsive in which I have remind him to slow down but other than that we get along great - we both love doing science experiment and watching documentaries -


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  3. #3

    I would not say I "hate" Sensors, because I rarely use "hate" against any particular individual unless A) They have impacted my well-being negatively in profound ways B) I find them morally detestable as a matter of ideals / principles even though I may never know them personally. There ways in which I sometimes envy Sensors, but there are also many areas where I tend to have gripes with them because there is evidently a lack of mutual understanding and connection beyond more or less a superficial level. This is not to say that I have not had any in-depth conversations with them, but I find that many of them just listen without the ability to really engage in response and discourse (which is intellectual food for me), or they just become shut off to these subjects and let me know that "enough is enough."

    I don't feel like I have it easy with either SFs or STs, SJs or SPs. They all present their sets of challenges when it comes to attaining a deeper level of understanding. I also feel, at least from a very subjective point-of-view, that the understanding between S types and I tends to be a bit asymmetric in the sense that it's not too difficult for me to gain access to insights regarding their personality and their motives, but that it's much more difficult for them to really "tap" into me beyond a certain point.

    On the SP / SJ axis, I have an easier time getting along with SPs than SJs because the P makes them a bit more spontaneous and less rigid when it comes to doing things. I don't know if I've encountered a confirmed STP in my life so I'll speak about the SFPs. I'm not sure if I've ever been with an ISFP but I'd imagine them to be much more physically oriented than I am, like how we can both be very imaginative but they'd be much more inclined, and perhaps much better at creating something visible, audible, touchable, tangible than I am. I usually live inside my head. I'd also imagine them to be much more present-oriented rather than past / future-oriented or abstract. Perhaps we'd share a lot, but over time I might feel that I lack in them a partner who can really respond and be on the same page as me when it comes to my fondness for the abstract. With ESFPs the only one I know could be my uncle, and unfortunately that's not left me with a good impression of the type. They can be really fun and light at heart, but I feel like we have different energy levels while lacking a deeper connection based on a shared time / space conception (they're very down-to-earth, present / physically oriented / people oriented while I am the opposite). I am not very fond of their "Hakuna Matata" approach towards life, it's like while we both want to relax and live a relatively simple life, we've got different ideas how to get there. My definition of a simple life is a life where there's peace and calm on the outside, but to remain very philosophically inclined and very vigilant on the inside. The outside world would ideally serve to protect my inner sense of peace and consistency. ESFPs can also be a bit prone to drama, they're very emotional but it seems like a much more volatile, uncontrolled form of emotion rather than one that's deeper and more introspective. I cannot stand drama in my life and I try not to start any unless I'm really pushed. ESFPs I've encountered can also be a bit prone to showing off and buying flashy things, which I disapprove.

    Onto the SJs, the xSFJs so far seem to be the type I have the biggest gripes with. Being S types with Fe in either dominant or auxiliary position, their expressions of Fe often come as far less reflective and considerate (because they're so present / physical-oriented rather than being introspective as their natural mode) than the Fe in some N types like INFJ, ENFJ. I've also had disagreements over Fi and Fe with ENFJ and INFJ, but the shared N preference means they're a lot more likely to intuit where I am coming from, and since they're pretty rare types like the INFP, they often share the experience of being misunderstood and dis-enfranchised in the system. However, xSFJs are 2 of the most common types and they're far more likely to find people who think, behave like they do. Their preoccupation with social norms, games, often following social and cultural practices without much if any questioning, their obsession with what I consider to be the very mundane details of life (yet I have got to admit they are vastly superior than me when it comes to getting so many things done) are all sources of dissatisfaction and conflict from both sides. ISFJs, with their inferior Ne, often frustrate me because their lack of intuition often gives them unwarranted worry (they're always thinking about "the worst" even when there's not much if any reason to be), and it often manifests as their reluctance / lack of flexibility when approaching new things and new possibilities. It's just so hard for them to wrap their head around them. Many ISFJs come from stable families where they've never had or have never been pushed to search for deeper meaning and / or challenge the status quo, while I come from a broken family and I've become very sensitive and independent in this regard. If I did not seek out these answers myself, who would have had the ability or patience to teach me? ESFJs are like a louder, more obnoxious, "in your face" version of ISFJs. Sometimes I'm more T than F when analyzing something (I'd say I am 65% F and 35% T) and the inferior Ti in ESFJs can be just as frustrating because I feel like they haven't got a strong internal system of analysis, that they just more or less go with the flow. It makes me unsafe spending extended periods of time around people who lack consistency in their beliefs and morals, I'd feel much safer with someone who's strong, even confrontational in this way. They also generally perceive me as "weird", "unusual" in one way or another and I've had some horrific things said to be by them. Their Fe is often described as being understanding, "others" oriented, and compassionate, but I feel like it does not extend to people they perceive to be outside "the norm". That's when they become very critical or even shunning towards another type like an NF. The way I see this is, they're missing out on so much because if they took the time to get to know us perhaps they'd realize how much wisdom and insight we could provide them, that we're a lot more than the "misfits" and "weirdos" they perceive us to be. Not all of them are bad people and they can actually be really nice, but their lack of interest in the abstract, and their over emphasis on being "people's people" drain me to the point of annoyance, exhaustion, and outright frustration. They don't quite seem to understand the more intense side of me and my need for solitude or 1-on-1 interaction (WITHOUT them constantly judging me based on social, cultural standards of the way things must be because of..... like I've got no right to even ASK why).

    Sometimes I do encounter an xSFJ that's more understanding and sympathetic towards me and at least tries to listen, but even then I feel like the deeper connection's just not there, and I NEED that deeper connection and resonance. The STJs, I feel, can be a bit too unemotional and utilitarian in their world view. Like the xSFJs they're often dogmatic in their attitude towards tradition, towards the establishment, but sometimes I feel as if they leave out the human element for the sake of effectiveness and efficiency. Some can have views that I find too extreme even for someone that can get quite emotionally and intellectually intense like me. They're definitely not the kind to bend the rules or trust emotions too much, which can come off as too cold and impersonal for me. Some of them can have militaristic / right wing tendencies. I've had some interesting talks with I / ESTJs, but in the end it's just too hard for our respective viewpoints to converge and they find me too emotional / sentimental / unrealistic. The upside is that can be very reliable and dutiful, but that to me does not overlook / replace the fact that I'm looking for a true emotional / mental resonance and understanding.

    Sensor types in general can be slightly challenging because sometimes I feel like you always need to do some kind of activity, to have somewhere to go with them, rather than just doing whatever and enjoying each other's company through conversation. While I very much believe that sharing experiences is a vital part of deepening the bond between two individuals, that's not enough for me if there isn't a heart-to-heart connection. the xSFJs and xSFPs when traveling tend to be very preoccupied with taking photos to show their friends or just to have very "sensory" experiences. While I can also appreciate the "sensory" side of things, I feel the need to dig deeper into the place's history, culture, people, social issues etc. and that often causes an intellectual disconnect with the Sensor / Sensors I'm traveling with. Lots of repressed disappointment on my end. I believe digging deeper is an undeniably enriching part of any travel experience but they just want to have a "good time" by their definition. I often express myself far better through writing and encounter stumbling blocks when they expect me to express myself verbally. I'm far more of an eloquent writer but I am a dummy when it comes to speaking.

    Unfortunately, my challenges and frustrations relating to S types are augmented by the fact that I come from a very S part of the world, especially xSFJ and xSTJ (but many xSFPs too): East Asia. Confucianism, the dominant ideology for the last 1-2 thousand years, stamped out pretty much all the other schools of thought. I believe at one point China was probably more N than it is now / after the predominance of political Confucianism as the means to control society (look up "Hundred Schools of Thought"), but once Confucianism managed to grip onto society, independent, abstract, critical thinking and depth / intensity of feeling, the pursuit of one's own dreams and desires, of feelings such as love and etc. have all been discouraged in favor of fulfilling your obligations and "knowing your place" and not questioning the status quo because it's "the will of the heavens." I feel this has been absolutely catastrophic for Asia and hinders progress. Now, I'm certainly not saying NFs have it easy in the West, and this has been true for me as a matter of personal experience, but the West at least has far more room for political and intellectual discourse.

    Despite all of my issues with Sensors, there are still times where I feel perhaps a bit of envy towards the way they live life. No type comes without any problems, but sometimes it seems as though it's much easier for them to be content with the way things are and to just take it as it goes. I talk a lot about living in the moment, living in the present, but I cannot recall ever really putting it into practice as my mind's way too alert and way too active. At one point I also felt genuinely inferior to the Sensors around me because it seemed like knew how to do so many things whereas I didn't, and how they seemed to be much more socially adept and graceful than I was (and am). They're also a lot more aware of their physical surroundings which gives them a kind of coordination that I lack. A lot of times I've wanted to do things for people but I just don't know where to start because I'm far less in-tune with the practical aspects of life than they are. Would I ultimately wish to trade being an N for an S? Overall, no. As much as I wish I could just have a "good time and not be puzzled about so much, I also recognize that it's what makes me who I am, that there are people (even if just a few) who can appreciate me, and that as S types they have their own share of struggles that us N types may not necessarily have. For example, the SF types can become so caught up in "people issues" and have no retreat when their outer identities and social lives fall apart. In that case we might find it much easier to cope and re-frame things because out natural mode of being is internally focused rather than constantly needing the external stimulation. S types also seem to have it easier because the system favors them. Once their outer shells, their reliance on their external / social identities and / or traditions and customs is no longer reliable, or if they're suddenly perceived to be "abnormal" one day in one way or another (never say never, though they'd hate to admit the possibility), they may have very little left to sustain their lives and fall into a deep void because their internal selves may be far less "blast resistant".


    Because many of us are so used to being "out of the norm" and therefore may not seek it, I feel it could possibly make us have somewhat of a resilient edge over S types.
    Last edited by WraithOfNightmare; 07-29-2019 at 07:43 AM.

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  5. #4

    Your guess is as good as mine.

    Sometimes communication does work between S and N. Knowing MBTI helps.

  6. #5

    They interact normally?
    I have had great interactions with Sensors and great interactions with Intuitives.
    I have also had awful interactions with both.

    Often I don't know my conversation partners type, but sometimes it's quite clear if they're S or N. But for me it isn't really about that. Usually it is about maturity and mental health. Mature and healthy (any type) = great talk. Immature and unhealthy (any type) = difficult talk. Usually though, not always!!


    Also please hide this thread from Stevester because after Wraithofnightmares post he's going to think this is a biased Intuitive thread talking crap about Sensors lmao (yes this is a joke).
    Aridela, soop, Katie Tran and 2 others thanked this post.

  7. #6

    How does a piece of string interact with another piece of string?
    That sounded cleverer in my head. Shh.

    In a positive interaction, I'd say the Intuitive appreciates the Sensor's grounded perspective and the Sensor appreciates the Intuitive's insight, each able to give a perspective on things the other lacks. In a negative interaction, the Sensor think the Intuitive needs to get their head out the clouds, and the Intuitive thinks the Sensor is ignorant.

    Personally I don't treat Sensors any different than I treat Intuitives. I like the deep conversations you're more likely to have with Intuitives but I find Sensors to be much easier company at times. They tend more than Intuitives to be more what-you-see-is-what-you-get which I appreciate. And sometimes our deep dive thinking patterns can drudge up thoughts that are just far-fetched and nonsensical, times like that it sometimes it takes a Sensor to give us a reality check and snap us out of it.
    Aridela, soop, Katie Tran and 2 others thanked this post.

  8. #7

    Quote Originally Posted by Beetlejuice View Post
    How do they interact?
    In the flesh.

  9. #8
    ISTP

    I interact with N types the same way I interact with anyone else because people are more than the sum of 4 letters or 8 cognitive functions, however I will explain my observations of my interactions with NF type here:

    I get along with ENFPs and INFJs pretty well. I think its just because it's almost impossible not to get along with healthy ENFPs and I just have a lot in common with (sane) INFJs. ENFJs are for the most part pretty solid too as long as they're not the ridiculously manipulative or weird ones, INFPs are the only ones where its a strained relationship, but I get along with most of the mature ones and really enjoy their sense of humor for the most part (they're usually really fucking smart and humor most of the time reflects intelligence level)...sometimes though its a little bit of idealism vs practicality, and my particular combination Ti and enneagram 1 type pushes back hard against idealism when its not the most realistic (and thats not to say that idealism that's not realistic is always bad, in fact its important to dream...its just annoying to me if its too indulgent sometimes)

    Also let the record show I somehow typed "in fact tits" instead of "in fact it's"...I never said my sense of humor reflects my intelligence...or maybe it does...since ya know...I'm a sensor.
    Last edited by soop; 08-08-2019 at 11:51 PM.
    Katie Tran thanked this post.

  10. #9
    ENTP

    A lot depends on temperature, atmospheric pressure, molar concentration... and what they had for breakfast.
    Aridela, AnneM and FerryMerry thanked this post.

  11. #10

    Actually, did you want practical advice on how to work better with sensors?

    If so, I’ve asked for that before and without too much help even though if MBTI is good for anything, you would think it would be good to help with this.

    I am learning to modify what I talk about with my ESFJ son. I just barely realized his type a month or two ago. I realize when he is being quiet it is usually because what I’m saying is more theoretical and If I focus on his interests which right now are his friends and the fact that he’s building a computer.... then as soon as I switch topics to concrete stuff he starts talking again usually. So... I guess it’s like with everyone, you have to figure out their interests.

    It is usually easier for NFs to adapt to others than the other way around, unfortunately, but that’s okay— understanding people is an NF super power. Also— there are obviously some good S and NT people who are good at adapting to others too, of course.
    Sour Roses thanked this post.


     
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