Had any experience with narcissts? How do you deal with them?

Had any experience with narcissts? How do you deal with them?

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This is a discussion on Had any experience with narcissts? How do you deal with them? within the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects forums, part of the Keirsey Temperament Forums category; I am wanting NT's views on dealing with such toxic people. - How do you deal with a narcissist? - ...

  1. #1
    INTP

    I am wanting NT's views on dealing with such toxic people.


    - How do you deal with a narcissist?
    - What do you think would be the best strategy to deal with them (other than cutting off contact) ?
    - And most importantly, how do you recover from the damage done due to them (Emotional and mental damage)


    Especially-- how do you deal with gaslighting, when the negative beliefs are embedded in your head? How do you break those negative patterns that again make you believe that your narcisst is correct?

    How do you recover yourself?


    ( Forgive my grammer... )
    Last edited by Amyra; 09-26-2018 at 05:05 AM.
    strawberryLola thanked this post.



  2. #2
    INTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Amyra View Post
    How do you deal with a narcissist?
    You walk away (this is the 'official' recommendation and consensus view).

    What do you think would be the best strategy to deal with them (other than cutting off contact) ?
    It would depend on the exact situation/narc/relationship. If you learn the way they work you could plan accordingly but I wouldn't recommend this and certainly not in any long term way.

    I was stuck living with a narcissistic parent for years. I dealt with it by neutralizing his power over me (became financially independent, eventually showed him that it's actually me who has the power bc I could expose his violence anytime) and then avoiding him (took dance classes when he gets home from work, kept canned food & water in my room etc, only left my room to do laundry when he was out etc).

    Mine never used me as 'narcissistic supply' though, a different narc may have reacted very differently. Be careful you aren't building a ticking time bomb (be sure they aren't the more extreme 'malignant narcissist') and you have somewhere else to go (I had a friend I could move in with if necessary already set up, I even had clothes already there -- when it was time to go bc my narc decided to up the ante, I was ready and left immediately).

    And most importantly, how do you recover from the damage done due to them (Emotional and mental damage)
    Read about other's experience (narcs are all very similar), learn to spot them (for 'never again' confidence), grieve if necessary, get them out of your head, see a therapist who specializes in this (if only to get a 'you're okay' confirmation).

    Otherwise I think all the normal things people are meant to do for themselves are helpful: have self compassion yet challenge yourself, exercise, increase EQ, find ways to be successful (even small/incremental achievements build confidence) and a place in life where you 'belong' surrounded by healthy people.

    If you read enough narc-victim stories, one theme that comes up repeatedly is this idea that you will come to see you are better off for the experience. I'm not sure that's always true but it was for me: I'm a stronger person with increased skill development from it and, having seen the negative/dark/difficult side to life, everything looks pretty sunny/easy and I feel grateful for what I have. I also developed zero tolerance for combative personal relationships which I suspect will serve me well in life.

    Especially-- how do you deal with gaslighting, when the negative beliefs are embedded in your head? How do you break those negative patterns that again make you believe that your narcisst is correct?
    When I realized that I had a contaminated way of thinking I started being mindful of what I was thinking even 'wandering off' type thinking. If it was negative I cut the thought right that second and thought about something positive. I did this repeatedly until the negative thoughts stopped.

    After as much reflection on the situation as the situation called for was done I also chose to not think about my narc -- any incoming thought just got sent straight back out -- blocked by thinking of something else. I'd also repeat 'I don't care about people who don't care about me' in my head as a way to block (until I thought of something else to think about).

    I never believed my narc was correct though. I've always had a very strong sense of right/wrong in relationships. I'd strongly recommend you see a (reputable) therapist if you don't know what to think. Journaling (free writing) can also be helpful to get in touch with your 'voice'/what you think/feel. But bottom line: if they're a narc, they're manipulating so nothing they say is to be trusted/believed.

    How do you recover yourself?
    In my particular case, a lot of learning about narcs (if I understand & can prevent in the future, I let go better -- it also helped to learn it wasn't 'me'), getting control of what's in my head, learning self compassion (how to be a good friend to myself, relearn self trust) and increasing my EQ helped immensely.

    I had this neat detailed emotions wheel -- trying to go to the opposite emotion from what I was experiencing was useful (although I suspect my mbti/enneagram made a big difference in how doable that was for me). Eventually I learned how to stay in the positive emotions (back to my natural state) so any negative emotions became obvious/clear warnings to be acted on (this is important for victims of narcs to learn since our 'creeper' warning has been messed with).

    Then getting on with my life despite what happened was the big thing (you definitely don't want 'victim' becoming your identity, nor do you want the narc to take any more from you).

  3. #3

    Unless you can somehow numb yourself to their awful antics and harsh words, I don't know that there is an ethical way to deal with them. They're mentally not normal, and I don't know that there is a medication or surgery that can fix their condition. Plus, they will not listen to reason, and someone can only get help if they can admit they have a problem (this is something a narcissist can't truly do, because they think they're basically infallible/justified in all their actions). If you're religious, you can pray for them to see the light, but don't get your hopes up and then get mad at God if it doesn't happen.

    You could kill them and rid the world of them, but obviously, that would be wrong.
    You could maroon them on a desert island, but again, that would be wrong.
    You could hit them in the head really hard and hope that they take enough brain damage to dramatically change their personality or make them a vegetable, but that would also be wrong.
    You could also spend years plotting to incriminate them and make them rot in a prison where they won't get special treatment, but that would arguably be a waste of your time and cause toxic thinking at best. That too, is arguably wrong.
    (Need I go on?)

    You can't change the actions or thoughts of a narcissist, or anyone else really. You could attempt to manipulate/outsmart them into doing/not doing certain things, but I wouldn't advise going that direction. The only effective thing you can do is to change how you react/respond to them. It's probably best to just avoid them as much as possible.

    Trying to change a narcissist is like trying to swiftly stop a fast-moving car that you aren't driving. If you do somehow manage to stop it, something is going to break and get all smashed up in a big, ugly mess. The best thing to do when approached by a fast-moving car is to get out of the way.

    **Edit: I now understand that this was only for NTs, so I apologize if I'm interjecting where I shouldn't. I had already spent the time typing this out by the time I realized it was for NTs, and I didn't want it to go to waste.

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  5. #4
    INTP

    Quote Originally Posted by Westy365 View Post
    **Edit: I now understand that this was only for NTs, so I apologize if I'm interjecting where I shouldn't. I had already spent the time typing this out by the time I realized it was for NTs, and I didn't want it to go to waste.
    Dont apologize. You actually provided me an another view towards looking to this problem.
    strawberryLola thanked this post.

  6. #5

    Narcissistic perverts can fake a lot of things, but they can't fake skills. They have no artistic talent, they suck at science, and I tend to avoid people who are that boring. They cannot be intellectually constructive.
    ilovegoodcheese and Amyra thanked this post.

  7. #6
    INTP

    Quote Originally Posted by Dare View Post
    I had this neat detailed emotions wheel -- trying to go to the opposite emotion from what I was experiencing was useful (although I suspect my mbti/enneagram made a big difference in how doable that was for me). Eventually I learned how to stay in the positive emotions (back to my natural state) so any negative emotions became obvious/clear warnings to be acted on (this is important for victims of narcs to learn since our 'creeper' warning has been messed with).
    This is same with me. I had also thought that it's because of my (enneagram+type) combined effect that I was so much out of touch with myself.

    Influencing of opposite emotions , brings back the real state of mind and the real emotions. This helps a lot. It quickly sorts a lot of things.
    Dare thanked this post.

  8. #7

    - How do you deal with a narcissist?
    I play the game they play.
    When they say something i say you right.
    When they say i can't i say you dont have statistics for that.
    I use humor. Narcissic people are easy to manipulate.

    - What do you think would be the best strategy to deal with them (other than cutting off contact) ?
    Money , Interest , everybody can be toxic. Say this guy was right and try understand.
    A lot XSTX are toxic because rules dont understand the world and have billions of non logic idea. They are dumb has fuck.

    And most importantly, how do you recover from the damage done due to them (Emotional and mental damage)

    There is no ""recover"" Because i dont think there is damage. Damage is an illusion to stop seeing reality.

    HARD truth is

    You let somebody get your security ans life and you think you get manipulated. In some part you are your own responsable of your ""bonheur"".

    Everything can broke us in life but we all get up and do activities and work hard.

    First step.

    Find your own way. Be good. And take his good advice and do what he say you cant do.
    Amyra thanked this post.

  9. #8

    And please stop.

    I read more than 100 books about psychology sociology and more and PLEASE narcissistic pervert is an illusion.

    Its a joke how many people say i know a PN but not really only for 2 traits and think tehey are psychiatric

    In*relationships, they usually consider themselves superior to you

    How can you define that ? In action ? Tell me 3 situations with real argumentation

    re insulting and demeaning, do not reciprocate*attention

    3 exemple. Insulte lack of attention
    Not a difference between you and him.
    Him lack of attention.
    Everybody is different. Needs too.

    emand constant admiration
    Natural to a man want admiration.

    may lose interest in you

    Sometimes its normal to loose interest

    may be promiscuous, may spend your money on others, and may humiliate you in public to enhance their own image.

    Only way and the most natural to see a pervert narcissistic is humiliation in public like insult o r like ""you are nothing""

    ITS NOT BECAUSE You have a guy stop giving attention sont aupport you like before want to have attention and your admiration and say he is not okay with your vision and say your vision is less logical is a narcissistic pervert.

    If we look stats about PN we can see all trigger suffer to create an PN is like 5% of population or less. But the 5% are not full of PN.

    Situation and understand the otger person and moment is important.

    But humiliation is THE PRINCIPAL and MAJORITY of what are an PN so if there are not that i have a lot of doubt.

    One day i broke the face of a guy like that.

    I dont have time for WEAKs looser insults me think they are superior
    Amyra thanked this post.

  10. #9
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by Amyra View Post
    - How do you deal with a narcissist?
    - What do you think would be the best strategy to deal with them (other than cutting off contact) ?
    - And most importantly, how do you recover from the damage done due to them (Emotional and mental damage)


    Especially-- how do you deal with gaslighting, when the negative beliefs are embedded in your head? How do you break those negative patterns that again make you believe that your narcisst is correct?

    How do you recover yourself?


    ( Forgive my grammer... )
    Adding to what's already on the thread: if you haven't done any reading then READ, research and read, there is plenty of documentation and psychology material, my point is, while it might help you solve your own questions (or not) it will help you understand how important it is what's been written here (Example: Dare) and whatever will be posted here in the future. In short yes, the best strategy is to cut contact, you can't do anything about it. It's not just "about them" it can be (and it is) a compulsive behavior so they will do it over and over to you.

    But wait... if it's someone you work with, lives near, etc that's easy, easier to cut contact. When it's someone inside your family or a direct relative (like a parent or even a husband-wife) then it's harder and you have to check the status of your relationship with them, as in "do they depend on you in any way? legally? or do YOU depend on them in any way?" if so cut the link and they will have no power but that's not the end of the problem.

    IMPORTANT: Are they manipulative? yes, are they skilled? yes, better than you in terms of skills? PROBABLY. I found a good analysis somewhere about some specific dynamics and it was fun and surprising how the author explained such person was gaslighting, lying, manipulating and playing the victim all at the same time, multitasking and without effort. But I have to add last on the least what makes things (in some cases) more difficult, what is it? YOU CARE.

    Related to the above, well... you will have to reach a point where no matter what kind of damage they try to make to you, you have to stop caring. And most importantly (in the same line described above) you should stop caring about them, many of their manipulative schemes are about THEM (even there you are second in terms of hurt) if they suffer you suffer, right? I mean here is a trick: in most cases of depression if you dig around you will find an addiction, same here: if you dig around you will find some sort of codependency.


    How to recover? there is good info on this thread, but it also depends again on the relationship you have and for how long, like... if this is about a parent then you are kind of fucked because you will have scars and problems with limits, boundaries and identity to whatever extent, they put effort on destroying all of that specially your ability to believe in yourself above them. Yes you can fall into the trap of a narcissist person but IMHO if this happens for long or several times chances are you come from a family with a narcissist parent.
    Amyra thanked this post.

  11. #10
    INTP

    Quote Originally Posted by changos View Post
    I found a good analysis somewhere about some specific dynamics and it was fun and surprising how the author explained such person was gaslighting, lying, manipulating and playing the victim all at the same time, multitasking and without effort. But I have to add last on the least what makes things (in some cases) more difficult, what is it? YOU CARE.

    Related to the above, well... you will have to reach a point where no matter what kind of damage they try to make to you, you have to stop caring. And most importantly (in the same line described above) you should stop caring about them, many of their manipulative schemes are about THEM (even there you are second in terms of hurt) if they suffer you suffer, right? I mean here is a trick: in most cases of depression if you dig around you will find an addiction, same here: if you dig around you will find some sort of codependency.


    How to recover? there is good info on this thread, but it also depends again on the relationship you have and for how long, like... if this is about a parent then you are kind of fucked because you will have scars and problems with limits, boundaries and identity to whatever extent, they put effort on destroying all of that specially your ability to believe in yourself above them. Yes you can fall into the trap of a narcissist person but IMHO if this happens for long or several times chances are you come from a family with a narcissist parent.
    You are right. Thanks for writing it.
    My dad is not a narcissist, but his mom is a narcissist and (due to this I suspect) that he has learnt narcisstic tricks and behaviour, especially gaslighting, black and white truths..but because he loves me a lot, so I was confused, on whether to follow him or not. But now I have found that it is his self centered thinking. I became a codependent. What is acceptable by him...was of most importance. There was a lot of mess and it was only in my mind. I couldn't believe my experience and my own feelings when he devaluated them.

    It took me around two years to find what is the damn problem, and it took then 5-6 months in recovery and now I am starting a new life. I also fell in the trap of a covert narcissist. And the breakup finally made me best.

    My journey of these months is exactly as you described. But my trick is little different. I believe the best way to win this game is "to not play it" (you can call it as "not caring"). The last paragraph perfectly suits and I am still struggling a bit. I feel I am 80% better 😁 and after your post, it validated my experience that no I am not a time waster girl who is giving importance to non important aspects and ol. There was really a problem. Its so difficult to accept this problem. Thank you for your post, thank you so much.


     
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