SFJs and Communication Issues with NTs

SFJs and Communication Issues with NTs

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This is a discussion on SFJs and Communication Issues with NTs within the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects forums, part of the Keirsey Temperament Forums category; From what I have experienced, a number of SJs seem to not explain the why, or communicate very well about ...

  1. #1
    ESTP

    SFJs and Communication Issues with NTs

    From what I have experienced, a number of SJs seem to not explain the why, or communicate very well about problems to NTs.

    What is this about? I'd think that keeping people posted about how things are being resolved would be Fe 101, but maybe it's really Fi 101.

    I find that the SFJs I've encountered seem to find it nagging that they should need to keep people in the loop.

    What do you think?
    tahrah11 thanked this post.



  2. #2

    I think I can see where your coming from, My ESFJ buddy doesn’t have patience for explaining things to people she’s in conflict with. But if your in her good books she tells you everything. She enjoys the social aspect of conversation and isn’t into intellectual conversation that most NT tend to like. My ENTP crazy gives her something to bounce off which is why we work so well.

  3. #3

    I imagine it's because the NT doesn't seem to reciprocate or directly interact.

    I know often my family thinks I'm intentionally ignoring them or don't care, and at work I can be somewhat absent minded. From that perspective, if the person that the SJ perceives doesn't normally care now suddenly wants to know what's going on, it likely comes across as selfish, inconsistent, or even tyrannical...if the curiosity comes across as more of an expectation or demand to be in the loop.

    SJs, am I hitting the right keys here?

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  5. #4

    When in problem/trouble they are overwhelmed by their own surge of feelings.

    For NT who listen it could only get worse since in normal time (beyond problem/trouble) there are already miscommunications in place.

    Sent sans PC

  6. #5
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Ista View Post
    From what I have experienced, a number of SJs seem to not explain the why, or communicate very well about problems to NTs.

    What is this about? I'd think that keeping people posted about how things are being resolved would be Fe 101, but maybe it's really Fi 101.
    I think people's communication skills have to do w/ E vs I more than anything else ... so whether they are a good at communicating has to do w/ whether Fe comes first or second in their stack. ESFJs(FeSi) great communicators ... ISFJs(SiFe) not so much. ENFPs (NeFi) great communicators ...INFP (FiNe) not so much.

    I think any type can be good at standing up and talking/lecturing in front of others... but being able to tell what other people are thinking, how they're interpretting things in a different way, why they're confused etc. takes extroversion.

    I have a friend whose ISFJ and communication is very difficult because I'll say something and he'll interpret it a different way than what I meant/won't understand what I'm saying... and it can be difficult/frustrating and require patience because I'll have to first help him to realize that the way he's interpretting what I said wasn't what I was trying to say, and then search for words and explanations that will allow him to connect w/ what I mean. Extroverts tend to think in terms of possibilities and are always open and searching for possibilities and what other people are thinking etc. whereas introverts tend to get tunnel vision on whatever possibility/interpretation that they have in their own mind. I think the most difficult/frustrating part isn't that the introvert doesn't understand, but rather their confidence that they understand something when they don't and they're misinterpretting what was intended to be communicated.

    This sort of thing I don't think comes up all that much, big of an issue with just chatting etc. it's more when you're working on a project together and coordinating tasks that it really comes out.
    Last edited by desire machine; 12-24-2018 at 09:17 AM.
    italix thanked this post.

  7. #6
    ESTP

    Quote Originally Posted by desire machine View Post
    I think people's communication skills have to do w/ E vs I more than anything else ... so whether they are a good at communicating has to do w/ whether Fe comes first or second in their stack. ESFJs(FeSi) great communicators ... ISFJs(SiFe) not so much. ENFPs (NeFi) great communicators ...INFP (FiNe) not so much.

    I think any type can be good at standing up and talking/lecturing in front of others... but being able to tell what other people are thinking, how they're interpretting things in a different way, why they're confused etc. takes extroversion.

    I have a friend whose ISFJ and communication is very difficult because I'll say something and he'll interpret it a different way than what I meant/won't understand what I'm saying... and it can be difficult/frustrating and require patience because I'll have to first help him to realize that the way he's interpretting what I said wasn't what I was trying to say, and then search for words and explanations that will allow him to connect w/ what I mean. Extroverts tend to think in terms of possibilities and are always open and searching for possibilities and what other people are thinking etc. whereas introverts tend to get tunnel vision on whatever possibility/interpretation that they have in their own mind. I think the most difficult/frustrating part isn't that the introvert doesn't understand, but rather their confidence that they understand something when they don't and they're misinterpretting what was intended to be communicated.

    This sort of thing I don't think comes up all that much, big of an issue with just chatting etc. it's more when you're working on a project together and coordinating tasks that it really comes out.
    Thanks for your response. I disagree. I know ESTJs and ENFPs who are appalling communicators.
    desire machine and Allin thanked this post.

  8. #7
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Ista View Post
    Thanks for your response. I disagree. I know ESTJs and ENFPs who are appalling communicators.
    who do you think are the best and worst communicators? How would you rank the types?

  9. #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Ista View Post
    From what I have experienced, a number of SJs seem to not explain the why, or communicate very well about problems to NTs.

    [..]
    I find that the SFJs I've encountered seem to find it nagging that they should need to keep people in the loop.

    What do you think?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrodingers drink View Post
    [..] My ESFJ buddy doesn’t have patience for explaining things to people she’s in conflict with. But if your in her good books she tells you everything. She enjoys the social aspect of conversation and isn’t into intellectual conversation that most NT tend to like. My ENTP crazy gives her something to bounce off which is why we work so well.

    They are SJs so it's best to talk about what they care about and you have to communicate.

    Especially, with some, while being grounded.
    Last edited by Catandroid; 12-27-2018 at 03:43 AM.

  10. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by desire machine View Post
    I think people's communication skills have to do w/ E vs I more than anything else ... so whether they are a good at communicating has to do w/ whether Fe comes first or second in their stack. ESFJs(FeSi) great communicators ... ISFJs(SiFe) not so much. ENFPs (NeFi) great communicators ...INFP (FiNe) not so much.

    I think any type can be good at standing up and talking/lecturing in front of others... but being able to tell what other people are thinking, how they're interpretting things in a different way, why they're confused etc. takes extroversion.

    I have a friend whose ISFJ and communication is very difficult because I'll say something and he'll interpret it a different way than what I meant/won't understand what I'm saying... and it can be difficult/frustrating and require patience because I'll have to first help him to realize that the way he's interpretting what I said wasn't what I was trying to say, and then search for words and explanations that will allow him to connect w/ what I mean. Extroverts tend to think in terms of possibilities and are always open and searching for possibilities and what other people are thinking etc. whereas introverts tend to get tunnel vision on whatever possibility/interpretation that they have in their own mind. I think the most difficult/frustrating part isn't that the introvert doesn't understand, but rather their confidence that they understand something when they don't and they're misinterpretting what was intended to be communicated.

    This sort of thing I don't think comes up all that much, big of an issue with just chatting etc. it's more when you're working on a project together and coordinating tasks that it really comes out.
    I read the first paragraph and I disagreed as well, but as I continued I agreed with the theory behind it. I work with 90% SJs. Maybe it's just a dom Pi thing where I've noticed when I ask isfj a question sometimes it's like they don't listen to what I say and turn inward to what they think I'm going to ask. Then I get an answer that doesnt make any sense. This doesn't happen that frequently. I've also had this happen with esfj but it's significantly less.

    My answer is purely looking at work situations where people are zoned into their project then I interrupt and they quickly respond. During a conversation for pleasure I'd be reversed where istj is probably better at listening and responding and the esfj is focused on talking in my experience.

    Sent from my LM-V350 using Tapatalk
    Ista thanked this post.

  11. #10
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Quote Originally Posted by italix View Post
    I read the first paragraph and I disagreed as well, but as I continued I agreed with the theory behind it. I work with 90% SJs. Maybe it's just a dom Pi thing where I've noticed when I ask isfj a question sometimes it's like they don't listen to what I say and turn inward to what they think I'm going to ask. Then I get an answer that doesnt make any sense. This doesn't happen that frequently. I've also had this happen with esfj but it's significantly less.

    My answer is purely looking at work situations where people are zoned into their project then I interrupt and they quickly respond. During a conversation for pleasure I'd be reversed where istj is probably better at listening and responding and the esfj is focused on talking in my experience.

    Sent from my LM-V350 using Tapatalk
    "I've noticed when I ask isfj a question sometimes it's like they don't listen to what I say and turn inward to what they think I'm going to ask. Then I get an answer that doesnt make any sense. "

    That sounds like the type of thing I was talking about w/ my ISFJ friend. I'll say something like "We should plug the computer in that outlet so it doesn't have to reach across the room." And he'll agree... and then plug it in a different outlet as if he wasn't listening or didn't understand. The thing is he is quick to act/express that he understands what I'm trying to communicate and he'll insistent that he understands but then it becomes apparent that he didn't and it can be difficult to get him to when he incorrectly thinks he understood everything perfectly.

    Perhaps it wouldn't apply to an ISTJ and it's a matter of the ISFJ not being able to quickly take in T heavy convo. It may also have to do w/ friends unique personality. He's a bit head strong, so it could have a bit to do w/ his own confidence/stubbornness, though to me it does seem like an introverted thing.

    It could also have to do w/ my own communication skills. Perhaps I'm not good at communicating to others and the ISFJ feigning understanding is more a matter of how he deals w/ my poor communication skills rather than how he acts in general w/ others.


     
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