The Number 1 Reason to Become Vegan - Page 4

The Number 1 Reason to Become Vegan

Hello Guest! Sign up to join the discussion below...
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4
Results 31 to 38 of 38
Thank Tree39Thanks

This is a discussion on The Number 1 Reason to Become Vegan within the Science and Technology forums, part of the Topics of Interest category; Originally Posted by Aridela I really don't want to rain on your parade but since I might know a thing ...

  1. #31

    Quote Originally Posted by Aridela View Post
    I really don't want to rain on your parade but since I might know a thing or two about pharmacology I'll just offer my opinion on the subject.

    At the moment the only way a drug will get approved by the FDA or equivalent national bodies is after rigorous testing on animals AND humans.

    Even if our technology advances vastly, each human's make up is slightly different from one another. There's simply no safe way to forego animal/human testing or you'll have random people dropping dead from drug side effects. I'm not sure how this would be more ethical in the long run. Actually, it would be quite irresponsible.

    You could forego the animal testing altogether and only allow humans to be tested, when they have given their consent. But who are the people more likely to participate in such trials? I'd guess the lower classes/third world countries' citizens.
    I'll grant that you probably know more about the topic than I do.

    Having said that, I think a key phrase you used is "at the moment." I definitely don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that we'll eventually reach the point where we don't have to test on any living subject. With how far science has come in the last few centuries alone, I don't really think you can rule that out.

    However, let's say you're right (which you definitely could be) and that we never reach the point where can safely produce essential products without some form of animal testing. I think that a world where we use animals for only that purpose is a lot better than the world we live in right now. We'd still see a literal world of difference if we stopped using animals in every other way but this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aridela View Post
    This is simply not the case. Several nutrients are better metabolised when they come from animal sources. A good example is iron. It's great that you take B12 supplements; several people are deficient, even heavy meat eaters.

    As long as you make sure you have a good, balanced diet being vegan is not inherently dangerous. But you have to realise it's not a diet everyone can follow. Many of us have specific dietary needs and foregoing animal products altogether is simply not an option.
    I'll grant that in the case of iron, it's easier to meet your needs through meat. However, that doesn't mean it can't be done through eating plant-based foods. It just requires a bit more conscientiousness, which becomes much easier after learning the ropes.

    I've heard of select cases where people for some reason or another need to consume animal products. I think the amount of people who do is greatly overstated, but I acknowledge that these people exist.

    As I've said, though, most people can be perfectly healthy eating a 100% plant-based diet, but they choose not to because of convenience or personal pleasure reasons. For these people, they're not exactly justified in eating meat. I'd argue that even those who supposedly can't be vegan should be making a genuine effort to minimize their animal product consumption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aridela View Post
    I have no problem with vegans, several of my friends are veggies or vegans and we get along just fine - unless they get preachy about it.

    Beliefs are like d*cks - It's ok to have one, but don't try to shove it down my throat. (<- take it as a general statement, not directed to anyone in particular).
    The thing is, I'm not preachy about it in my day to day life. It actually rarely comes up. Since this is a public thread where conversations are encouraged, though, it feels appropriate to share my viewpoints... especially when I'm correcting misinformation (from other posters).
    Aridela thanked this post.

  2. #32

    I'll also add this, since the site is being stupid and not letting me edit my post: I'm excited for lab-grown meat. I think that's going to make a huge difference for those who can't go 100% vegan. I don't doubt that with a lot of the environmental stressors in our world, we're going to see more of a push in that direction. I hope it can get off the ground and become a viable option for those of us in the developed world (and hopefully even the developing world one day).

  3. #33

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardielley View Post
    I'll grant that you probably know more about the topic than I do.

    Having said that, I think a key phrase you used is "at the moment." I definitely don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that we'll eventually reach the point where we don't have to test on any living subject. With how far science has come in the last few centuries alone, I don't really think you can rule that out.

    However, let's say you're right (which you definitely could be) and that we never reach the point where can safely produce essential products without some form of animal testing. I think that a world where we use animals for only that purpose is a lot better than the world we live in right now. We'd still see a literal world of difference if we stopped using animals in every other way but this way.
    I think being able intuitively know that a drug will work or not work would be great, but unless we're talking about a radical overhaul of the scientific method, I don't think what you are suggesting is really possible.

    The way we've been going about it for as long as recorded history can trace back, we've used trial and error to inform our decisions. Personally, I don't think we can completely depart from this mindset but, I'd be delighted if our civilisation could figure a better way to go about it.


    I'll grant that in the case of iron, it's easier to meet your needs through meat. However, that doesn't mean it can't be done through eating plant-based foods. It just requires a bit more conscientiousness, which becomes much easier after learning the ropes.

    I've heard of select cases where people for some reason or another need to consume animal products. I think the amount of people who do is greatly overstated, but I acknowledge that these people exist.

    As I've said, though, most people can be perfectly healthy eating a 100% plant-based diet, but they choose not to because of convenience or personal pleasure reasons. For these people, they're not exactly justified in eating meat. I'd argue that even those who supposedly can't be vegan should be making a genuine effort to minimize their animal product consumption.
    The thing is if we look at this proportionately the majority of allergies/intolerances are to plants/shellfish or animal byproducts (i.e. milk). Meat allergies are indeed extremely rare. If you add to this the fact that the vast majority of plants need processing/cooking in order to get all the nutrients we need from them, an all plant diet doesn't make sense from an evolutionary perspective. Not to mention that in any non tropical or even temperate climate you simply don't have enough plants growing all year round to fully support yourself. Most tribal people resort to using animal milk (cultured)/blood to meet their dietary requirements, especially when consuming meat is extremely limited.

    I agree that meat consumption is ludicrously high nowadays and it should probably be radically limited. I just don't think suggesting everyone should go veggie/vegan is feasible or even ethical. Pushing for less meat consumption and a return to a more sustainable (organic) farming model makes more sense in my opinion.

    The thing is, I'm not preachy about it in my day to day life. It actually rarely comes up. Since this is a public thread where conversations are encouraged, though, it feels appropriate to share my viewpoints... especially when I'm correcting misinformation (from other posters).
    Like I said this wasn't directed to you per se, and I am very interested in discussions like this, so thank you for your input.
    Last edited by Aridela; 07-01-2019 at 01:20 PM.
    Ardielley thanked this post.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    PersonalityCafe.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #34

    I'll start by responding to this, and then I'll get into everything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomDudeOnTheInternet View Post
    Eh, I'm bored of debating, but you should kind of get my point.

    OH and how do you quote things in a structured way like that?
    Believe me, I'm bored of it too, lol. This'll probably be my last response.

    The structured setup come from separating your paragraphs into different quotes. All I have to do is copy over
    Quote Originally Posted by RandomDudeOnTheInternet;43337765...
    (without the ellipsis -- I added that just so it wouldn't quote this part) and paste it at the beginning of each of your quotes. Then I just add
    to the end of each quote. If I'm not explaining it well, sorry about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomDudeOnTheInternet View Post
    You being fine could be due to your age. Even if it's not, it doesn't mean everyone will be healthy under a vegan diet. If you are an active person, B12 won't cut it. Are we just going to completely stop professional sports?
    True, I am young. But there are plenty of thriving "older" vegans as well as vegan athletes. Many athletes even adopt plant-based diets during training to improve recovery times and the like.

    Here's a list of vegan bodybuilders just so you can see this in action.

    https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a...ers-instagram/

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomDudeOnTheInternet View Post
    So you check for every single product you use? Everything? That's highly unlikely, but sure I'll take your word for it.
    I check into food, clothing, toiletries, and other household items. It's not super hard to do this once you get into the swing of it. I also don't do a ton of shopping apart from groceries roughly twice a month. I typically purchase most other things online.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomDudeOnTheInternet View Post
    How are free range farms deceptive? "Free range denotes a method of farming husbandry where the animals, for at least part of the day." The animals have to live somewhere. They can't stay outside forever. Not even pets spend all their time outside. Free range farms do exactly as they say. They let the animals go out and be "individuals".
    The term is quite frequently deceptive because it paints a picture of animals roaming the fields all day. In reality, a large portion of free-range animals (especially free-range chickens) are enclosed in cramped sheds with thousands of others. Often times, all that's required of a "free-range farm" is some sort of outdoor access. People usually get away with this by building a tiny outdoor enclosure attached to the shed. This enclosure can't fit more than a few animals at a time.

    Here's an article that explains this a lot better than I do (and also tells you where to look if you want a true "free range" product).

    What does "Free Range" mean? - Greener Choices

    [QUOTE=RandomDudeOnTheInternet;43337765]Oh the 1080 point doesn't apply to you. 1080 isn't only used to protect livestock. It's used to protect crops from pests as well. Alright. It's still the same theory. Pesticides kill animals. Birds, rabbits, etc. [/QU9TE]

    This is true. Unfortunately, most fruits and vegetables are grown having used pesticides sometime during the process. The main exception is organic fruits and veg, but those are often grown with bone meal and other animal parts. It's really a no-win situation for vegans who have to eat something to survive.

    Having said that, it's still an optimal step to eliminate harm where you can, such as through minimizing or eliminating meat, dairy, and eggs from your diet. That alone makes a huge difference. As the saying goes, perfect should not be made the enemy of good.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomDudeOnTheInternet View Post
    According to that statement, cockroaches are also individuals and so are ants. Do you let all of em roam around as well in your house? Not are animals are cats and dogs.
    I'm fortunate that I haven't had to deal with infestations of any kind while living on my own. However, something to keep in mind is that there are differing levels of sentience. Insects are much less sentient than a dog or a pig. Also, a lot of vegans will consider dealing with "pests" to be self-defense or property defense since they can carry disease and cause damage.

    I think your point here is valid, and it raises an interesting ethical question, but I do think the reasons for killing insects during infestations are justifiable (defense of self/property).

    If we go vegan, biological advancements will not happen or very little. That's a fact. You admitted that it will happen in centuries. Exactly. So no matter what you do, there's no point. Now the overtime thing. Hypothetically that's true, but it's not going to happen. That's because the amount of people eating meat is going to increase. I explained before with MEDC'S. So why now? Also, what do you mean? What will happen to the animals overtime as the world hypothetically goes vegan? Are we just going to not let the animals reproduce? Animals like cows will reproduce. They often reproduce more than themselves. Isn't not allowing them to reproduce cruelty? They are individuals after all according to you. If there are so little animals that they will be in sanctuaries, then that means they will be close to extinction. That's really not a good idea. Sanctuaries and these things are for rare animals and if we do in the future, that's extremely expensive.
    Again, veganism is a boycott. While I definitely do believe people going vegan is making a difference, I'd still be vegan even if I was making no difference just because I believe it's the right thing to do.

    The amount of people eating meat is increasing in the developing world, true. This is less so the case in the developed world, especially with more and more people consuming meat and dairy alternatives on a regular basis. We're seeing all the time that restaurants, grocery stores, and even schools and hospitals are providing plant-based options because there's an increased demand. Taking environmental demands into consideration, I'd be very surprised if we didn't see a substantial decrease in per-capita meat consumption over the next few decades in the developed world.

    You're still missing my point about cows. If the world hypothetically started eating less and less meat, we'd see fewer and fewer animals being bred, as the only reason they're being bred is to meet demand. In a world with a lower demand for meat, domesticated animal populations would shrink, not grow. If this world were also to go vegan eventually, the demand for these animals would be so low that there'd be very few of them still in captivity.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomDudeOnTheInternet View Post
    Also the plant increase isn't because of people actually caring about being vegan. It's more to do with religion. India is the second most populated country in the world. They also have high amounts of immigrants. Therefore, companies have to adapt.
    True. A lot of people adopt more plant-centric diets for health, environmental, or religious reasons. You do understand the main point, though, which is regardless of the reason why people adopt these diets, "companies have to adapt."

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomDudeOnTheInternet View Post
    Saying there are worse issues is not a bad argument. We have hundreds of issues in the world right now. They are dealing with human life. As you said, humans take more priority than animals. I didn't say it's not an issue. Well I don't think it's an issue, because I straight up don't really care. As do most people, because vegans are a minority.
    It is a bad argument because it can be used to dismiss almost any issue, regardless of what that issue is. LGBT rights? There are "worse issues." Women's rights and Me Too? There are "worse issues." Are you starting to see the problem with that argument? Just because there are "worse issues" doesn't mean the issue in question isn't worth focusing on, especially since we as human beings have the ability to focus on more than one issue at a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomDudeOnTheInternet View Post
    Dude. People are not cows. People take more priority than cows. Killing a random person is not the same thing as killing a random cow.
    True. But killing either is unnecessary when you can thrive on plant-based foods. That's why it's a waste to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomDudeOnTheInternet View Post
    You are contradicting yourself now. You said a vegan lifestyle isn't the healthiest. Therefore there's no thriving on a vegan diet. It's not unnecessary as said before. There are so many uses of animals.
    I never said it's emphatically not the healthiest. I just said there's no proof of it being the healthiest. What's important is that it's a healthy way to live, and as I've shown, it definitely can be, provided you're eating a well-balanced diet.

    Just because an animal has "uses" doesn't mean killing said animal is necessary. To prove this act of killing is necessary, you'd first have to show that the products you get from the animal can't be found or manufactured anywhere else. Then you'd have to prove the products themselves are necessary for human health and/or survival. If the aforementioned uses fail to meet both of these criteria, then killing animals for these uses is not an act of necessity.

  6. #35

    Unfotunately, I have to double post because the quote explanation didn't turn out right, and the site still won't let me edit. Let me try this again. What I've been doing is adding [/QUOTE] to the end of what I'm quoting, and I've been copying [QUOTE=RandomDudeOnTheInternet;43337765] and putting it at the beginning of each quote. Hopefully that makes sense.
    RandomDudeOnTheInternet thanked this post.

  7. #36

    Meat eating FTW = it tastes great and vegan food sucks. The number 1 reason to become vegan: do it if you're into masochism.

  8. #37

    Best reason for someone to go vegan = more meat for the rest of us. I appreciate their generosity!

    Real talk, Oreos, potato chips and soda are all vegan. Something tells me if this regimen is about getting healthier, it wasn't very well thought out.

  9. #38

    IMO rather than pushing vegetarian/vegan lifestyles it'd be better to just invite people to try more genuinely good food like black bean burgers, fried tofu, etc.

    I used to be an on-off vegetarian/vegan and I'm not anymore, but I'm sure I'm eating less animal products overall because I've learned so many food alternatives that I actually enjoy.


     
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4

Similar Threads

  1. Laki ~ The Road To Vegan
    By Lakigigar in forum Health and Fitness
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-30-2018, 04:10 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:33 PM.
Information provided on the site is meant to complement and not replace any advice or information from a health professional.
© 2014 PersonalityCafe
 

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0