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2K views 23 replies 16 participants last post by  Siriusly McGonagall 
#1 ·
Hey everyone, I have a theory concerning the relation of (the acceptance of) authority and MBTI types (cognitive functions) and I just wanted to ask you all, how you see authorities:
Do you usually find yourself in a position somehow defending authorities and reasoning that by saying that since they are that certain authority, they must've done something in their life to get there, or do you normally question authorities and tend to (first) disregard them, because that status doesn't mean anything? (please tell me which scenario seems more likely + your type!)
For anyone who's interested, here's my theory (please be honest & answer first):
I think the Te-Fi/Fi-Te types (esp. as dom & inf functions) are more likely to just accept authorities, whereas Ti-Fe/Fe-Ti types question them. My explanation would be, that Te-Fi types thrive for a logically organized environment, in order to express their true-self (Fi-Te thrives to express their true self to gain a logically organized environment), and therefore they see an authority as something to keep everything organized, so it's something good. Furthermore, Te is known for accepting logical facts quite easily, without analyzing their logical consistency in depth. Fe-Ti however wants to create that same organized environment when it comes to values and feelings, in order to express that universal truth (Ti-Fe wants to express universal truth to create a value-organized environment). Ti wants to understand and analyze logical things in depth; they want to find out if that authority is really that good. A different example would be 1+1=2. Te would just accept that and move on, in order to have that as a logical 'basis', whereas Ti would want to analyze that and fit that into their internal logical framework. It's the same thing with the authority. What are your thoughts on that?
 
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#3 ·
For me it depends on the type of authority. There are two criteria that strongly influence my relationship with authority. The first is whether the authorities have earned their power or whether they were merely given (or inherited) their power. The second is whether the authorities are using their power to improve or protect society rather then abusing their power for personal gain.

When it comes to the police and the military, I'm usually one to defend them because they almost always fulfill both criteria. In contrast, I tend to doubt and question authority figures like politicians and bureaucrats because they tend to not fulfill one or both of my criteria.
 
#4 ·
Te/Fi tends to disdain moral authority, religious leaders, political leaders, etc. who simply don't fit their ethical standards. They may appreciate authority when it leads to efficiency. For example, managers tend to be associated with Te. This changes with types with high Fi and low Te. INFPs for example tend to dislike "the system" which includes more Te-related things like management.

Ti/Fe tends to disdain intellectual authority. It is a good quote from ENTPs to say that your only valid authority is your own intellect. If an authority's rules don't make sense, then don't follow them. Ti types tend to dislike management and strongly favor horizontal approaches to work rather than vertical hierarchies. They function independently as "partners" rather than managers and supervisors trying to control things. The story from above is similar with types with low Fe. Although they aren't parading their own authenticity as an INFP would, an INTP wouldn't be a slouch in being strongly opposed to irrational religious cult leaders. But most likely for different reasons than an INFP would. Look at the difference between Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins according to celebrity types. Dawkins uses dispassionate language to move his points forward. While Hitchens uses passion and force when attacking religious authority. Different reactions, but the enemy is pretty much the same.
 
#5 ·
This is actually very interesting.. Especially what you said about the different approaches of INTP's and INFP's. Fi would critisize an authority if it's against their value system (and therefore be very passionate about it), whereas Ti focusses on whether that authority makes sense and somehow fits into their inner framework of logic, which leads to them not being as passionate about it as Fi's.
 
#6 ·
I am automatically anti-authority on basically everything, and regularly am debating my ESFJ wife on this.

She is a big fan of authority - she respects police, bosses, basically any authority figure, she just assumes they've earned their position and deserve respect.


I am the exact opposite. I detest authority. I do not respect police officers or my bosses purely because they're technically a "higher level" than me.

I openly question people in positions of power if they so much as look at me the wrong way.


I can't see past the corruption.
It goes all the way to the top muthafuckers, all fields, all arms of the government, the lot.


One of my least favourite things is people abusing their power or authority, and I've witnessed this enough times to simply believe that's all they all do.


Guilty until proven innocent to me.


I mean I even sit here and wonder why the hell do people want to get into those positions.
The answer is obviously to abuse their power.


Can't stand authority. Hate it.


Matter of fact I hate it so much I have a hard time with my studies sometimes because I find it difficult to adhere to proper citation guidelines and I'm iffy on citing anyone in the first place because according to whom exactly, is a particular person an expert in their field, or someone worthy of listening to and following blindly.

I simply don't believe in it. I could write for years.



Let me ask you a question - when you've done nothing wrong - when a cop car is behind you, do you feel safe, or paranoid?
 
#8 ·
I understand what you mean, even though I don't exactly feel the same way. I mean don't get me wrong, I'd be the last one to support the system, but still - I sometimes do find myself having a deep respect for authorities.. I haven't quite understood why myself, perhaps it's because of my ISTJ dad or whatever, but I thought it might have something to do with my inferior Te. But thank you for your answer, I feel like a lot of INFJ's feel that way.
 
#7 ·
Hmmm... I don't think your conclusions are quite right, as I see ESFJs/ISFJs as pretty accepting of authority most of the time, and this seems like a big loophole. I also don't see ISFPs as very respecting of authority.

This is how I see it for Fe-Ti/Ti-Fe users:
Intuitive Fe-Ti (INFJ, ENFJ): Outwardly respecting of authority, inwardly always questioning their expertise
Sensing Fe-Ti (ISFJ, ESFJ): Respecting of authority until they make a mistake; forgiving if the mistake was well-intended
Intuitive/sensing Ti-Fe (ESTP, ISTP, ENTP, INTP): Not respecting of authority until they prove that they are intelligent and capable
 
#9 ·
Yup, after seeing a lot of answers on here I've come to the same conclusion. I still believe that Fe-Ti and Te-Fi plays a certain role in that, but I guess there are also other factors, like Ni vs. Si. But what I don't understand is how both INTP's and ISTP's have a very similar outlook on authority, but INFP's and ISFP's (from my experience) don't. But perhaps I'll just have to ask more Fi-dominants to see a clear pattern. Anyways, thank you for your answer :)
 
#10 · (Edited)
While I'm definitely not "automatically" anti-authority, it really holds no special power over me, either. Respect for authority is not inherent... it has to be earned.

I think that SJs... and, particularly, we ISTJs... do appreciate the stabilizing nature of some type of authoritative structure. When we disagree with the status quo, our tendency is to work within the existing structure to affect change incrementally rather than staging a destabilizing, rebellious assault on the authority. I think a lot of people misconstrue that tendency to not be blatantly disruptive as "blind adherence to authority" but, to us, it's more about maintaining our own stability than it is about loyalty or adherence to any particular authority.

I also think that the root of this behavior in SJs is the Si "survival instinct". Although there may be differences in exactly how it plays out for Te/Fi STJs versus Fe/Ti SFJs, the tendency to not "go nuclear" and blow up the status quo at the drop of a hat is rooted in Si's need for maintaining a stable platform from which to navigate the way forward.
 
#22 ·
I know that this post is a couple months old, but I have a question for you.
Would you compare your adjustment of a system you didn't like to fixing certain aspects of a messy desk, one at a time? This is if a "destabilizing, rebellious assault on the authority" would be an act of getting rid of the old system completely and writing a new one, like swiping everything off of a messy desk to organize it in a different way than before.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I am neither with or against authority. I respect people based on merit with position. Even authorities come in a variety of flavors. Some make great use of power and can be kind while stand to reason and be solid and not shirk off things simply because of a position. Than there are other kinds who think that a position, status, or title in itself is what gets respect (fuck no, not from me) especially if they abuse their power for personal gain or pushing off responsibilities onto others, or if they talk down to people on a regular basis where it's absolutely not necessary.

I am not some silly goose who just despises all authority for sake of representation. Nor do I salute it. A good example is a cop. I treat cops how they treat me (I pay their salary). I will be polite to a polite one doing a traffic stop, and I will be rude if the person is antagonizing me (just either give me a ticket or don't either way, I am not going to listen to you quiz and preach fuck no). I have said "well are you going to let me go or give me a ticket" when they have been like that.

I think any rebels without a cause who simply just judge all authority as one and the same who are not adolescent are just a tad immature. Just because someone is a boss for example and has to make tough calls does not bug me. As long as they are fair minded and I can see work ethic and consistency. I respect that more than the flakey bosses who try and be buddy buddy with everyone and end up with favorites and a bad work environment.

I would say I am very much in the middle. To start and neutral. But I can actually grow to really respect authority or absolutely disdain.

ESTP

As far as other tests I think I tests as Casual Formal approach or something like that. Which would make sense with my varied view on authority.
 
#14 ·
My relationship with authority depends on the authorities, but my relationship with authoritarianism is absolutely antagonistic.

First, let's clear up the difference between authorities and authoritarians.
Authorities are people in authority; defined and only defined by the power they officially hold, de-jure and de-facto.
Authoritarians are those who ideologically believe that people should have limited liberties for any reason and advocate authority restricting and controlling others.

Authoritarians (in power) believe, enforce, and have others believe that they have more merit because they are in a higher position; the so-called "appeal to authority". The idea that an official scientist would be right about something because he is an official scientist, is, while logically invalid, often held. If a poor junkie who dropped out of high school explained the exact same thing in the exact same manner, it would make no difference whatsoever.
While it's true that a scientist is more likely to be right about science, but he isn't right because he is a scientist - Correlation does not equal causation.

The very idea of silencing those for not having a high enough position already disgusts me in how stupidly cruel it is, but the idea of exploiting the stupidity of the masses to pass logical fallacies to justify silencing those of a low position...
...now that's fucking evil.

In fact, spreading logical fallacies by itself is evil, but doing so in order to increase the power of authority to restrict and control others is psychopathic.

...

As to hierarchies, I tend to ignore them completely unless it's much easier and more convenient to go along with the shtick and would cause unnecessary conflict if I didn't.

Someone being in a higher position doesn't make them right about anything.
"Undermining authority" is not an argument. If you're wrong, you're wrong. It's that simple.

People in authority have called me assertive for seizing "the last word".

No, no, that's not how it works. If there is something to be said, I'll say it. If there is nothing to be said, I won't.
If there's nothing to add or object to in your statement, I won't say anything because there is nothing to say.

If you want to have the last word, stop being a fucking idiot.
 
#15 ·
I hold them to a higher standard than "lower levels" of authority. If they've really deserved the power to control others, they better live up to it. Not saying they can't make minor mistakes, everybody does. However, they need to consistently prove that they deserve the respect and obedience they demand. I will have no strong opinion of them at first, no awe or disdain...maybe just discomfort as I'd have to "behave" better depending on the situation, as even though it is not strong, there is a certain paranoia to it. If they do things that I view as undeserving like being a manager but not knowing as much as their staff, or preaching moralities but behaving immoral, they will pretty much lose all credibility with me. If I continue to comply afterwards, understand it is all due to fear of consequences of not complying, not respect at all.

For purposes of the thread, I am Fi-Te.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Your theory makes sense to me, and I find it to be true based on my experiences. I've had lots of bad experiences with authority and suffered much. Because of that, I keep my eyes opened at all times and I am very critical of those above me. In answer to your question, I actually do both (too much bad experience to not take into consideration). But before my bad experiences, I defended and respected authorities. In the modern world today, people in authority figures are actually painted in a bad light (due mainly to their own wrong doings) so it's not a surprise to me when I find that most people do not trust or respect authority figures. Authorities are, after all individuals. So I want to know the individual behind that badge/title. What do they stand for and what morals do they live by?


 

I absolutely despise having XXTPs above me. I really HATE it. Their sense of judgment is different from Te. They play favorites, and they are very unfair. That is the biggest thing that pisses me off about them. I know a lot of them on this forum talk about 'fairness' being a value that they hold highly, but that's not true in real life. All it takes is one person to butter them up, and they'll serve them like no other (whether they're aware of this happening or not). Their 'fairness' is inconsistent, and that is a problem because they need to be fair to EVERYONE not just whoever is pleasing them in the moment and whenever their spontaneous nature kicks in. If I were to be harsh, I'd describe it as having selective hearing and sight. If you don't feed their Fe, you will be singled out to be heavily critiqued (about the subject/work). Those who feed their Fe won't be singled out or critiqued. ExTPs especially enjoy critiquing others harshly yet if that were said to them, they wouldn't be able to take it. That's too hypocritical for me to have any respect for.

I once had an IxTP math teacher who gave a girl extra points on a question of a test that had an error. It turns out that same error occurred on my test as well, and I wanted correction/extra points for it. I was rejected, and when I asked why he basically had no explanation. "That's just how it is..." was his reply. Another experience was with an ISTP female professor that taught lab class. I had come back to class from our meal break, and she announced the importance of tying up our hair. While she was speaking, she was directing her attention specifically and intently at me the entire time. I had just gotten a very short haircut the day before, and a hairband wasn't enough to pull everything up. I forgot about this, including that I needed to buy bobby pins. I was disgusted that I was singled out when there were others who also had their hair down. These are just two of my many experiences with xxTPs in authority figures.


I don't expect authority figures to be 'perfect'. What I expect out of them is to fix mistakes when they've made them (if possible) and to have at least a basic moral code (honesty, fair treatment, real work for pay, good intents, etc.). They need to have reasonable expectations that they themselves can meet (don't be a hypocrite). People in authority need to genuinely care for others, since they are working for them. I can't stand those who abuse their power for selfish gain or pride. I also can't stand those who use their figure to gossip and spread rumors about others. Is it a coincidence that all of these problems I've experienced happened to be with those having Ti/Fe? :rolleyes:

 

It's funny that the authority figures I enjoyed being with the most were ESTJs, especially the women. Not only were they very fair, but they were also very considerate of others. They took the situations of others into account, and no unreasonable demand was ever made on others that I saw. ESTJs in authority are usually the ones that work the longest and the hardest, and they actually walk the talk. Despite the bad rep they get here, I find it relaxing to be under them.
 
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