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This is a discussion on Let's talk about duals! within the Socionics Forum forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; Originally Posted by Wisteria Get lost with your dumb ISFJ stereotypes. That is typism and it's against the forum rules. ...

  1. #101

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
    Get lost with your dumb ISFJ stereotypes. That is typism and it's against the forum rules. You accuse me for not thinking for myself then call ISFJ's superficial for having Fe aux?

    I don't want an explanation for why Fe is actually superficial according to you either, so don't even waste your time explaining it. It's irrelevant in both this thread and entire forum anyway. If you're not going to use socionics then go to the MBTI forum seriously.

    If I saw that post earlier i wouldn't have bothered engaging you in the first place.
    fe is superficial to me, as an entp. that's how it feels for me. you are not even able to understand what you read. get lost with your dumb brain.

  2. #102
    Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaoticEvil View Post
    tf socionics invented that you can't derive from mbti with common sense?
    -You can't derive IM (information metabolism) from mbti, socionics got that from Kepinski

    -You can't derive intertype relationships (not in the IM way socionics does it at least) from mbti. But I'm sure you can create some other generic "intertype relations" based on observation I guess.

    Specifically the concept of duality was indirectly stated by Jung (sensors attract intuitives, feelers attract thinkers etc). In this case you can derive these things but no one else did so...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaoticEvil View Post
    i'm talking about "invention" there. i'm not saying myers perfectly integrated jung into her system... tf are you talking about?
    No, that's not what you said, you said socionics got the cognitive functions from myers briggs (core invention?), I said they got from Jung. Later socionics sort of "mbtied" their own system by including the xSTj xNFp etc. nomenclature besides the letter code (ILI, ESI etc.) to try to translate their types into the already existing system I guess, no wonder many say you just have to switch the J and P for introverts.

    But that isn't always the case, switching the J and P won't always translate to the same type. There are tons of people typing ENTJ in myers briggs that are SLE (ESTp) in socionnics or ILI (INTp) in socionics and INFP in myers briggs.

    Anyway, I didn't read all posts so I'm not sure why you're trippin about socionics but this is getting off topic.

  3. #103
    Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
    Ugh I can't even think about socionics right now
    Relax

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  5. #104

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Damn bro, the accuracy here is real lol. In my experience at least.

    I don't know what ENTP in relationship looks like, but I do know that when ENTP does their entp say fucked up shit for attention or whatever thing, first 100 times INFP will try to change ENTP for the better. after 1000 times INFP gets exhausted loses hope and just chalks it up to that's how the ENTP is, INFP might try to adjust and grow thick skin, when they realize they don't have thick enough skin they will beat themselves up for being too sensitive, then slowly spend less and less time around ENTP keeping them at arms length because they cannot deal with the fucked up shit as much as they thought they could, especially when the fucked up shit is aimed at them. Me and my ENTP friend are like brothers, and he tries to encourage me to vent to him when I am going through something, or for me to tell him about my childhood like you also said, like I did in the beginning, but eventually that sensitive information will be used as a weapon forged against me, since ENTPs know how to attack people's insecurities, and he might not even realize it to catch himself before he says the thing he says, but that does not stop the pain. All the awareness in the world of knowing that's just how he is won't stop something from hurting. Time and distance will though. SEI can give that same Fi supervision to ENTP and probably be less hurt by their more blunt Ti, because they can always chalk it up to "Yea what they said is mean, but it's the truth."
    so if we turn back to beginning, i mentioned infps because i was thinking what relationship can be more romantic / dramatic / with zig and zags / interesting / fun / challenging / dynamic and a lot of make up sex after little fighty fights and less pragmatic for entp?

    i said to myself, socionics keep talking about this dual thing but i really am not interested with developing my si... boring shit. sorry, socionics. i guess that's what i "must" do. but i don't want to. you know? i will prefer infp over an isfj for all those reasons. but yeah, this is my last comment in this section, categorical and rigid thinking going on here is rather annoying.

  6. #105
    Unknown


    @Felipe @Wisteria

    How unsure are both of you of your sociotype?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaoticEvil View Post
    fe is superficial to me, as an entp. that's how it feels for me.
    Sounds more ENFp than ENTp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe View Post
    -You can't derive IM (information metabolism) from mbti, socionics got that from Kepinski

    -You can't derive intertype relationships (not in the IM way socionics does it at least) from mbti. But I'm sure you can create some other generic "intertype relations" based on observation I guess.

    Specifically the concept of duality was indirectly stated by Jung (sensors attract intuitives, feelers attract thinkers etc). In this case you can derive these things but no one else did so...
    Correct. However, I'm convinced that you can go from Socionics to MBTI. Why? The Socionics Jungian dichotomies measure everything that MBTI does. Socionics just has a lot more to it than four dichotomies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe View Post
    But that isn't always the case, switching the J and P won't always translate to the same type. There are tons of people typing ENTJ in myers briggs that are SLE (ESTp) in socionnics or ILI (INTp) in socionics and INFP in myers briggs.
    I've tested as ENTJ as often as I've tested as ESTP. ESFP in third place. The real issue is "MBTI's" "functions:" MBTI types are used as shorthand for Jungian functions, even in situations when they very clearly do not match (i.e. Ti and Fi dominants being "perceivers").
    Last edited by Bastard; 09-18-2018 at 07:33 PM.
    L P thanked this post.

  7. #106

    Non-romantically: Duals make for good buddies and someone who'll have your back when you need it.
    Romantically: Duals just get you without having to constantly put on aires or having to be "on" all the time. Especially valuable if you're a public figure or someone who's considered a pillar of the community or simply of taking the role of the head of one's family as many Gammas are tend to be.
    L P thanked this post.

  8. #107

    Quote Originally Posted by Bastard View Post
    @Felipe @Wisteria

    How unsure are both of you of your sociotype?
    Very unsure? :D I've ruled out a lot of sociotypes by the process of elimination though. Probably Beta/Delta and Process if I got my dual right earlier in this thread.

    Sounds more ENFp than ENTp.
    No it's just someone who is overemotional and labels superficial people as Fe types. People probably beleive Fe is "superficial" because their social skills or understanding is lacking.

  9. #108
    Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by Bastard View Post
    I've tested as ENTJ as often as I've tested as ESTP. ESFP in third place. The real issue is "MBTI's" "functions:" MBTI types are used as shorthand for Jungian functions, even in situations when they very clearly do not match (i.e. Ti and Fi dominants being "perceivers").
    yep

    Quote Originally Posted by Bastard View Post
    How unsure are both of you of your sociotype?
    I'm 30% unsure

    Quote Originally Posted by Bastard View Post
    However, I'm convinced that you can go from Socionics to MBTI. Why? The Socionics Jungian dichotomies measure everything that MBTI does. Socionics just has a lot more to it than four dichotomies.
    I'm not sure if you mean go from "working with" socionics to mbti or if you mean someone can assume mbti system through socionics. Either way, I hardly think so. If it's the first case, I don't see it happening often cause mbti is more popular anyway, so people go there first, then to socionics, then they find socionics complicated and go back.

    If it's the second case, the more natural approach is to go to mbti first. Meaning the person derived the 16 types by reading Jung 'cause they ended up noticing by the end he mentions you can couple all of the 8 types with one of the 2 auxiliary functions and then came to the same conclusion as modern mbti that the third function is opposite in direction the the auxiliary. (Although, if you want to discuss some other time I have plenty of reasons to be convinced that Jung actually meant that all the other functions are opposite to the main: for instance an INTP would be Ti > Ne > Se > Fe)

  10. #109
    Unknown


    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe View Post
    I'm 30% unsure
    Elaborate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe View Post
    I'm not sure if you mean go from "working with" socionics to mbti or if you mean someone can assume mbti system through socionics. Either way, I hardly think so. If it's the first case, I don't see it happening often cause mbti is more popular anyway, so people go there first, then to socionics, then they find socionics complicated and go back.
    I mean that if you apply your sociotype to the Jungian dichotomies (Introvert/Extravert, Logical/Ethical, Intuitive/Sensing, Rational/Irrational), then you can transfer this result to an MBTI type. This is one way because MBTI is solely dichotomies, Socionics is not.

    Doesn't matter what "people do" or what is "natural," tbh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
    Very unsure? :D I've ruled out a lot of sociotypes by the process of elimination though. Probably Beta/Delta and Process if I got my dual right earlier in this thread.
    EIE, LSI, LSE or EII?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaoticEvil View Post
    categorical and rigid thinking going on here is rather annoying.
    is bad, isn't it?
    Last edited by Bastard; 09-20-2018 at 07:55 PM.

  11. #110

    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe View Post
    I'm 30% unsure
    what's the 70% that you are sure of?

    I'm not sure if you mean go from "working with" socionics to mbti or if you mean someone can assume mbti system through socionics. Either way, I hardly think so. If it's the first case, I don't see it happening often cause mbti is more popular anyway, so people go there first, then to socionics, then they find socionics complicated and go back.
    MBTI can tell you something about your socionics TIM, like which functions you are currently using. And finding your MBTI is easy af, all you have to do is take the test.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bastard View Post
    I mean that if you apply your sociotype to the Jungian dichotomies (Introvert/Extravert, Logical/Ethical, Intuitive/Sensing, Rational/Irrational), then you can transfer this result to an MBTI type. This is one way because MBTI is solely dichotomies, Socionics is not.
    J/P doesn't translate into Irrational/Rational. That's not my opinion or anything, it's just what I read.

    EIE, LSI, LSE or EII?
    Actually in the reinin test I got all the process extroverts from choosing only a couple dichotomies that I was most sure of (EIE, SEE, ILE and LSE)

    I thought Beta/Delta because of Si-Te. Could be wrong about that though, because I did type as SEI (Si-Fe).

    is bad, isn't it?
    imao


     
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