DCNH is for you :)

DCNH is for you :)

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  1. #1

    DCNH is for you :)

    I want to make this thread to promote DCNH, because I feel it doesn't get the attention it deserves.

    DCNH is not only beautiful and cool. It is also very accurate, and fills a gap in the understanding of Socionics and compatibiliy.

    Socionics is great, but DCNH makes it easier to see, because it sorts out some things, makes them clearer.

    It's a whole world, and can give incredible satisfaction and joy.

    It might sound formal and complicated. But it isn't.

    There are three good articles on the subject. Read them!
    System of DCNH subtypes
    Subtypes: the empirical portrait
    Descriptions

    So, the basics: A person can show strengths of different functions, regardless of type. These strengths or "energizations" come in pairs. We get these subtypes:

    FeTe = Dominant subtype
    NeSe = Creative subtype
    TiFi = Normalizing subtype
    SiNi = Harmonizing subtype

    The main compatibilities are these: D and N fit together, and H and C fit together. This is not only theory, in my observations a majority of married couples follow this pattern.

    IMPORTANT!
    Strengthening a pair of functions in this context means that you focus on the content of the information, the experience, it's very practical, not just processing. It does NOT mean that you start using the function more in the model A structure. For example, if a SEI strengthens Ni (Harmonizing), it is NOT the same as emphasizing the role (that would feel stressful). This is why some people have misunderstood DCNH because they think that it is against the rules of socionics to strengthen for example Si and Ni at the same time. But this is in fact the rule, this kind of strengening happens in pairs.

    But, in addition to this strengthening in pairs, there is another kind of strengthening that actually is about functions in the model A structure. So D has strengthened base, C has strong creative, N role and H PoLR. This shows in different ways. For example the C is focused on self-actualization, very difficult to work with uninteresing tasks, unpredictable. N has problems working for himself, needs a social environment, direction.

    I can give you one example from my type (SEI): Focusing on...

    Ni (H subtype): meditative, receptive, attentive state of mind, perceptive of environment, percieving deep, "spiritual"dynamics of events

    ... and that's not the same as this:

    Ni-role: acute awareness of flow of time. Feeling of being late, feeling of being in a slight hurry all the time, need to adapt, punctuality, especially in social context, work etc. This shows more as the person becomes socialized, maturing.

    But DCNH is not difficult. Forget the theory. It's easiest to learn through examples. I couldn't find that many celebreties of N subtype, for obvious reasons.

    EXAMPLES
    I really hope the links work. Some of these videos give a good insight into what this is all about.

    Dominant:
    David Hasselhoff (ESI/ISFj), Spencer Stern (LII/INTj), Angela Merkel (LII/INTj), Kirk Hammett(SEI/ISFp), Doctor Phil (LSI/ISTj), Richard Dawkins (ILE/ENTp)

    Creative:
    Woody Allen (ILI/INTp), Russell Brand (ILE/ENTp), Björk (SEI/ISFp), Charles Manson (EIE/ENFj), Gordon Ramsay (LSI/ISTj), Slavoy Zizek (ILI/INTp),Jack Nicholson (SLE/ESTp), Roman PolanskyIEI/INFp

    Normalizing:
    Noam Chomsky (LII/INTj), Rick DeLong (IEE/ENFp)

    Harmonizing:
    Emanuelle Seigner (IEI/INFp), Lisa Mitchell(SEI/ISFp), George Michael (SLE/ESTp), George Michael (young), Madonna (SLE/ESTp), Eva Rydberg (LIE/ENTj)

    DCNH doesn't compete with model A. Model A is still the same. Just specifying intra-type differences.

    Comparing main Socionics with DCNH I would say that Socionics model A focuses on the information processing but DCNH focuses on the awareness or immidiate approach to things. DCNH is a more shallow but visible phenomenon. It's a big part of your "personality". Often I can know the subtype of a person, but not the main type, until I get to know them more.

    DCNH AND CHANGE
    DCNH subtype can change during your life. But it is a slow process. Things like severe illness, emotional stress, life crisis can trigger a change. But often what is needed is sustained training of the pair of functions. DCNH can be compared to mood. The mood, the kind of awareness, can change during the day or during longer periods depending on what you do. But usually we swing back to our default subtype very soon. If you spend lot's of time with a another subtype it can also trigger change, or at least give you alternative ways of being that can inspire you to change.

    Change usually happens ignoring -> connecting. So N begins to change towards H and C towards D.

    Gulenko has suggested that Steve Jobs might have undergone a subtype change, at least partially. He is usually typed EIE. As young (in the 70ies-80ies he seems C, later, when he is older he seems more D. That's understandable thinking about how his tasks /the company has evolved.

    DCNH AND MISTYPINGS
    D and C introverts can often be confused for extravers. And H and N extroverts of course confused for being introverts. Cs are generally difficult to type.

    DCNH and MBTI
    Se in Myers Briggs seems very close to Se-Creative in DCNH. There are probably also other things one could point out. Or Normalizing intuitives will sometimes be typed as sensors in MBTI because they often lack imagination (in some sense) and are detail focused.

    EXPANDING TO 8 SUBTYPES
    ... is easy. In some people one function in the pair seems to be stronger. So you can have Fe-dominants or Te-dominants etc. Young Yoko Ono would be an example of Ni-H-SEI. Compare her with Lisa Mitchell who is much more Si-H-SEI. But in most people the functional pair is pretty even.

    HOW TO LEARN DCNH
    Look at married couples and you'll find the main compatibilities. Not always but very often. Compare people of the same sociotype. Also keep in mind that this is a structural-analytical approach and you shouldn't worship the definitions when typing people. Try to look around and learn what is intended by the model. Not all Ds are "dominant" in a traditional sense, for example. But DCNH is not trivial, it actually refers to something in the mind. It is not just about "some people are a little like this, and some are like that".

    When typing DCNH one can look at the functions, the dichotomies, or the descriptions. Or all of them. Basically the same thing.

    WHY DCNH IS GREAT!
    Many reasons, but it finally teaches you socionics in practise, because it subtracts a layer from the general personality so you can see model A clearer. Or the opposite: You can ignore model A and just enjoy observing DCNH in people. In the same way it separates a layer of compatibility so you can understand the socionics relations better, or the opposite, understand the DCNH compatibilities better. This is analytical psychology at its best. DCNH is all around us. Happy observing!




    * astheno-neurotic means something like sensitivity to smells, colors, body-sensations, tiredness, muscle-weakness, moodyness. It's a term used in Eastern European medicine.
    MNiS, MNiS, MNiS and 68 others thanked this post.



  2. #2

    Interesting.
    I think I'd be a Ni-H-LII.

    Explains my strong identification with Ni and being mistyped sometimes as an ILI or IEI without being either.

  3. #3

    The only thing this theory has succeeded thus far is giving me a headache as I can't type myself at all in it and I honestly feel it's convoluted compared to Gulenko's other theories. I can't make much sense of it at all.
    Last edited by Entropic; 11-30-2013 at 05:18 AM.
    FreeBeer, marckos, SisOfNight and 1 others thanked this post.

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  5. #4

    Quote Originally Posted by Fractals and Pterodactyls View Post
    Interesting.
    I think I'd be a Ni-H-LII.

    Explains my strong identification with Ni and being mistyped sometimes as an ILI or IEI without being either.
    Paul Auster is definitely Harmonizing. I think he might be LII, nor really sure though, but it's my best guess so far. You might want to look into him.

  6. #5

    Very interesting. I have seen DCNH but not come into contact with it that much. At first glance I think I am an N but I can't say for sure.
    Helios, Helios, Helios and 12 others thanked this post.

  7. #6

    My inner LSI is seriously disturbed by this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepy View Post
    DCNH is not only beautiful and cool. It is also very accurate, and fills a gap in the understanding of Socionics and compatibiliy.
    In what way is it accurate? The problem with Gulenko's presentation of it is that it produces a concept that has a successive loss of meaning the more all-encompassing it is trying to be.

    Socionics is great, but DCNH makes it easier to see, because it sorts out some things, makes them clearer.
    At a more simply defined level I would agree, but irks me to suggest that IMs in the super-ego and the super-id block can be strengthened. If we leave out the application of pairs to individuals then I do see the appeal of this.

    IMPORTANT!
    Strengthening a pair of functions in this context means that you focus on the content of the information, the experience, it's very practical, not just processing. It does NOT mean that you start using the function more in the model A structure. For example, if a SEI strengthens Ni (Harmonizing), it is NOT the same as emphasizing the role (that would feel stressful). This is why some people have misunderstood DCNH because they think that it is against the rules of socionics to strengthen for example Si and Ni at the same time. But this is in fact the rule, this kind of strengening happens in pairs.
    Since you are using the terms "focus" and "strengthening" interchangeably I do not see how I have misunderstood the concept. How exactly is "emphasizing the role" supposed to differ from some kind of "practical" application of the strengthened pair?

    But, in addition to this strengthening in pairs, there is another kind of strengthening that actually is about functions in the model A structure.
    What is the difference?

    I can give you one example from my type (SEI): Focusing on...

    Ni (H subtype): meditative, receptive, attentive state of mind, perceptive of environment, percieving deep, "spiritual"dynamics of events

    ... and that's not the same as this:

    Ni-role: acute awareness of flow of time. Feeling of being late, feeling of being in a slight hurry all the time, need to adapt, punctuality, especially in social context, work etc. This shows more as the person becomes socialized, maturing.
    While I do agree that there is a major difference in how you describe the two, I do not see how your description of "Ni-H-SEI" subtype falls outside of the general definition of Si. Where does Ni come into this? Apparently it does not since you state yourself that your Ni role (your actual use of Ni) is not being affected by specifically being an Ni subtype.

    DCNH doesn't compete with model A. Model A is still the same. Just specifying intra-type differences.
    If the application to the individual would only be strengthening the base, creative, ignoring or demonstrative then I do agree that it does not compete with Model A.

    DCNH AND CHANGE
    DCNH subtype can change during your life. But it is a slow process. Things like severe illness, emotional stress, life crisis can trigger a change. But often what is needed is sustained training of the pair of functions. DCNH can be compared to mood. The mood, the kind of awareness, can change during the day or during longer periods depending on what you do. But usually we swing back to our default subtype very soon. If you spend lot's of time with a another subtype it can also trigger change, or at least give you alternative ways of being that can inspire you to change.
    Hm... Wouldn't the most apparent logical conclusion to this be that you can use and display any of the 8 IMs while your subtype does not change?

    But if we go by the assumption that you do strengthen both of the pair in some way, how would that in your case be that you are strengthening both yet does not take on the Ni role that you have as an SEI? Is it that SEI of the "Ni-H" subtype takes on their role more often? But if so, are we not back at where we started, where you stated that this does not put emphasis on your Ni role?

    Gulenko has suggested that Steve Jobs might have undergone a subtype change, at least partially. He is usually typed EIE. As young (in the 70ies-80ies he seems C, later, when he is older he seems more D. That's understandable thinking about how his tasks /the company has evolved.
    Using celebrities as examples is a bit dodgy. However, the reason that he seems more like D (I assume as in Te-D) is because he actually is an LIE. Take a look at this video, I can assure you that this person certainly is not using his Role in such excess.

    EXPANDING TO 8 SUBTYPES
    ... is easy. In some people one function in the pair seems to be stronger. So you can have Fe-dominants or Te-dominants etc. Young Yoko Ono would be an example of Ni-H-SEI. Compare her with Lisa Mitchell who is much more Si-H-SEI. But in most people the functional pair is pretty even.
    How can anyone in their right mind suggest that a person of a DCNH subtype that has a pair where one is the creative and the other one is the PoLR is even able to have fairly equal strength? This happens in one out of four DCNH subtypes in all of the 16 types.

    When typing DCNH one can look at the functions, the dichotomies, or the descriptions. Or all of them. Basically the same thing.
    I am scratching my head at this. I did not see anything resembling "basically the same thing" as Ni in your own written example of "Ni-H-SEI".
    Helios, Helios, Helios and 12 others thanked this post.

  8. #7

    Questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepy
    For example, if a SEI strengthens Ni (Harmonizing), it is NOT the same as emphasizing the role (that would feel stressful).


    What would you say it does mean?

    This is another part I'm confused about:

    So D has strengthened base, C has strong creative, N role and H PoLR. This shows in different ways. For example the C is focused on self-actualization, very difficult to work with uninteresing tasks, unpredictable. N has problems working for himself, needs a social environment, direction.
    If I were to look at H-LII as example, how would I reconcile all this? A strengthening of Pi (including Si) yet a strengthening of Se? Does this latter interpretation of D~strengthened base etc interact with the former (D~Je, etc)?
    Inguz, Inguz, Inguz and 27 others thanked this post.

  9. #8

    I can propose to semi-answer (nay, really ramble mostly incoherently in hopes someone makes something of it) regarding my own questions based on what I read something of a while ago, which is to say Gulenko seems to think that, while the position of information elements in Model A is specific to how the type engages in various aspects of mental and vital activity, a strengthening of certain information elements naturally also corresponds to certain roles of information elements within the model A structure.

    Example, "N" is "normalizing," and the function of normalizing seems to naturally involve doses of Ji, if I recall correctly particularly Fi. Examining the "role" function, we can sort of see why the term "normalizing" may correspond to the role function. But it seems, while various IE may take on the role function position depending on type, the presence of "normalizers" with strong Fi / Ti i.e. static evaluative standards injects something essential into the formative aspects of society. The IE-role-function might somewhat correspond to how the individual adapts to this society, whereas the presence of individuals with strengthened Ji might constitute an essential feature of even having something to fit into.

    This function is two-dimensional: with it the person constantly manages only norms and is capable of giving estimates to their observance. Not only does time become discrete, leading to unpredictability in a person’s behavior, but also space – a person is not oriented as to what rules of behavior to observe; therefore he is capable of acting inappropriately, not in the correct manner required for the time and place. But if a person industriously observes precisely those standards of behavior, which are accepted in his society,






  10. #9

    @Inguz

    There were some questions. I'll try to answer short.

    Well, if you read the descriptions like an "LSI" or should I say Normalizer, then you can have problems with them being too broad and all-emcompassing. But Gulenko really gives so many hints on what to look for so if you really are interested it shouldn't be a problem to see it. The DCNH compatibilities are so common in real life so by beginning to look at couples one will already find many D-N and C-H combinations, and then one can get more familiar with the phenomenon and go from there. The videos I linked should also give some idea of what this is all about.

    The strengthening in pairs (H=SiNi, D=TeFe etc.) is really quite independent of the model A structure. I guess I didn't make that clear enough. There is a difference between awareness and information processing. One simply has to get used to that this is the case. I cannot give a perfect explanation of this, though.

    These pairs are not hard to see, it's really obvious that it is so. But first one has to get an idea of what the DCNH phenomenon is all about, what it looks like.

    @bearotter, yes, it is important that the normalizer is a Role-person. Ti/Fi "energization" is not enough to explane the behaviour of this subtype. Same thing with Creative, who often is the most non-standard person. I'm not exactly sure what the connection betwenn PoLR and H is, but my guess is that is has to do with the H being the "weakest link". H is often a sensitive person with self-doubt, at least more than other subtypes.

    Two things have been important for me while learning this.

    - The compatibilities. They are very important. D-N and C-H create a feeling of intimacy, of being naturally connected to the other person.
    - The dichotomy connecting/ignoring. (H & D have it) "sensitivity to changes in environment". Very interesting to observe.

    By the way, I am a Normalizer. But I have a tendency for connectivity nowadays, so I can gravitate towards H sometimes. When I was younger I was much more ignoring, a pure Normalizer, and that also showed in my relationships with D.

  11. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepy View Post
    @Inguz

    There were some questions. I'll try to answer short.
    However it does not answer my questions.

    Well, if you read the descriptions like an "LSI" or should I say Normalizer, then you can have problems with them being too broad and all-emcompassing.
    No! I am D but it's not like I change to N every time I utilize Ti.

    But Gulenko really gives so many hints on what to look for so if you really are interested it shouldn't be a problem to see it. The DCNH compatibilities are so common in real life so by beginning to look at couples one will already find many D-N and C-H combinations, and then one can get more familiar with the phenomenon and go from there. The videos I linked should also give some idea of what this is all about.
    This is not my concern at all. I am looking for answers about how exactly the pair thing is supposed to work without breaking Model A. The videos doesn't help to answer questions about the theory of DCNH.

    The strengthening in pairs (H=SiNi, D=TeFe etc.) is really quite independent of the model A structure. I guess I didn't make that clear enough.
    You did write "DCNH doesn't compete with model A. Model A is still the same. Just specifying intra-type differences." in your first post, so make up your mind! In Model A the PoLR is piss poor and this is in direct conflict with the supposed idea that one of these pairs in a subtype will enhance your Creative and PoLR at the same time.

    There is a difference between awareness and information processing. One simply has to get used to that this is the case. I cannot give a perfect explanation of this, though.
    It is a very crucial point in explaining why both of the IMs that constitutes each pair are strengthened and not just one of them. If "Ni-H-SEI" is a thing then "Te-D-SEI" should be too, right? Both of them are placed in the superego block of an SEI.

    These pairs are not hard to see, it's really obvious that it is so. But first one has to get an idea of what the DCNH phenomenon is all about, what it looks like.
    What is it all about? You keep referencing to your personal experience but the problem is that it has nothing to do with what Gulenko formulated. Neither did you address my question surrounding why you consider yourself to be "Ni-H-SEI" and not just "Si-H-SEI" since you did not display anything but Si with the personal example that you made, and in addition to that wrote yourself that it does not mean that you are emphasizing your Ni role. So what does the Ni in "Ni-H-SEI" really mean?


     
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