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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Source:Quora hidden/Anonymous-see user
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Question: What is your take on all the MBTI functions like Si, Se, Ni, Ne, Fi, Fe, Ti and Te? How do you differentiate between them? Can you provide any deep insights into them?
Warning: Long answer below.

According to the MBTI (Myers-Briggs Type Indicator) theory, a person has 4 Functions โ€“ 2 are for Perceiving (P), 2 are for Judging (J).

The 2 Perceiving Functions are: Sensing (S) and Intuition (N).

The 2 Judging Functions are: Feeling (F) and Thinking (T).

Each of these functions can be either Introverted (i) or Extroverted (e).

Hence, there are a total of 8 functions. In this article, we shall be looking intuitively at each of the eight functions.

1.) Introverted Sensing (or Si):
(Memory)
What is Si ?
  • The natural preference to look at a situation by a core internal set of empirical elements like memory, familiarity, hierarchy, habits and tradition.
  • Having an internal positioning framework that is self-generated, self-referenced, inward-oriented, convergent (eliminating), and is independent of time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ "Identity".
  • The ability to import an external reality into the mind, and then transpose it onto one's internal positioning framework, to arrive at an understanding of the situation โ€“ "Experience".
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the internal empirical standards is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Concrete information and details are given priority over meanings and imagination โ€“ while reliability, preservation and diligence are given precedence over adaptability, gratification and impulsiveness โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to be comfortable in the full range and depth of one's own identity without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Heritage".
  • The compulsion to create and follow an internal code of empirical practices that should not be violated โ€“ "Duty".
Let's go deeper to understand Si...
(Memory)
  • Secure Si: A person with pronounced Si is solidly anchored to his own heritage and self-assured in the knowledge that his identity is unshakeable. Such a person castles himself in and walls off his identity system from external influences. He tends to hoard his heritage, guard it from the world, and is less willing to share it with others. Whenever he wants, he has the native ability to pierce through the clutter to grasp the essence of the situation without needing much external help or guidance.
  • Si Tolerance: Once such a person has secured himself, he can now afford to be selective about entertaining a wide variety of conflicting external details and traditions without the risk of being discomforted by them too much. And hence, he makes little effort to control the cultural atmosphere around him. This makes him extremely non-judgemental and tolerant of other people and their identity systems (as long as they don't threaten the person's core identity).
  • Si Protestor: But if anyone tries to question the person's core identity and asks him to act against it, then it is considered as an attack on the castle walls. The person vehemently protests and fights back to defend his traditions.
  • Retarded Se (see below for Se): Since the person with high Si is convinced of his self-sufficiency in cultural and identity systems, he feels that he does not need to solicit any more of the same from outside. Such a person becomes complacent and neglects his Se. This negatively affects his ability to showcase his own culture and imbibe the cultures of others around him. He can come across as clannish, unsophisticated, self-conscious, unadventurous and culturally outdated. It diminishes the ability to effectively impress another person or group.
  • Non-adaptive Si: If the person's conservative internal identity system is later found to be inaccurate, out-of-depth and out-of-sync with that of a changing world, then that person finds himself stuck in the sand and isolated โ€“ unwilling and incapable of changing his habits โ€“ until he takes steps to develop and hone his Se.
  • Se Burnout: When a person with high Si attempts to do Se things, it causes the expenditure of a lot of mental energy accompanied by confusion, discomfort and stress. After a while, he will feel overworked, tired and mentally drained. So he instinctively aborts the process and turns back to recharge and recover.
  • Se Resistance: If a person with high Si is thrust into a high Se environment, he may find it repulsive and choking to live up to its ways, and may respond with evasion, defiance and even revolt against the prevailing cultural order.
  • Se Overcompensator: If, out of desperation or desire to fit in, such a person forces himself to blend in with a Se crowd and tries his best to mask his unrefined Se, his inexperience causes him to misinterpret and overplay the required role. He places excessive emphasis on the wrong details, and exhibits styles that are disproportionate with everyone else's. This makes him look phony, fake, disjointed, and ironically, he ends up standing out from the others with greater contrast than before.
  • The more the mind is directed inwards towards Si, the more it is focused away from Se. Every step taken towards Si is a step away from Se. Therefore, someone with a pronounced Si will have a diminished Se (and vice versa).
  • So paradoxically, it turns out that the more self-identity one has inside, the less he capable he is to project them outside. The more culturally and experientially strong one is, the less stylish and presentable he appears. The more traditional and dutiful one is, the less inclined he is to impose them onto others.
2.) Extroverted Sensing (or Se):
(Sensation)
What is Se ?
  • The natural preference to look at a situation by an expansive external set of empirical elements like details, novelty, spontaneity, presentation and style.
  • Having an external positioning framework that is foreign-originated, multi-referenced, outward-oriented, divergent (accumulating), and is dependent on time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ a "Situational Awareness".
  • The ability to seek, sense and absorb the identity, hierarchy and culture from external sources and interconnect them โ€“ without giving too much regard to the underlying meanings and motives โ€“ to arrive at an understanding of the situation.
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the external empirical reality is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Concrete information and details are given priority over meanings and imagination โ€“ while adaptability, gratification and impulsiveness are given precedence over reliability, preservation and diligence โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to outwardly project impressions and style, which are in consonance and harmony with the external empirical atmosphere, without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Trend-fitting".
  • The compulsion to create and enforce an external code of empirical metrics that should not be violated โ€“ "Culture" (think "Fashion Police").
Let's go deeper to understand Se...
(Sensation)
  • Si Void: A person with pronounced Se is someone with an underdeveloped Si. He can't quite locate his own internal seat of identity. So every time something triggers a self-seeking response, the act of trying to understand it causes the expenditure of a lot of mental energy accompanied by confusion, discomfort and stress. After a while, he will feel overworked, overwhelmed and mentally drained. To avoid being put into such a predicament again, he resorts to painstakingly create his own mental positioning framework for future reference, as a hedge to compensate for the lack of Si.
  • Se Mapping: To acquire a sense of each situation, the person with pronounced Se starts at a subconscious level by acutely observing external objects around him, and correlating their details and styles to their subsequent impressions and benefits. After such validation, they slowly get good at being attuned to the identity and status of others.
  • Se Mimic: As the person comes to grip with the language of impressions, he begins to communicate with others in the same language, by closely dressing up the details nearest to the impression he wants to convey. This way he opens up a two-way street towards cultural understanding and camaraderie, establishing excellent impressionable skills and enhances the ability to effectively impress another person or group.
  • Se Repertoire: As the years go by, and the statistical number of observations and interactions increase with various objects, the person has steadily built-up a sizeable mental framework to deal with each new situation according to a past data-set. Over time, their repository of identity and style have swelled to such levels that sometimes they can deal with a situation in a better way than people with Si.
  • Se Dead-End: However, when a novel and hitherto-unseen situation appears, a person with high Si can natively make sense of it. But, for the person with high Se, it has landed outside the purview of his mental positioning framework and hit a blind spot. So he once again finds himself confused, disoriented and without answers, unable to judge for himself. Such powerlessness in the face of uncertainty can be a source of great discomfort, nervousness and stress. The way out is another cycle of studying, gathering and validating styles.
  • Controller Se: If such a person is put in charge of a group setting, working with too many people can mean handling too much diversity and chaos. He will be terrified by the prospect of accidentally encountering an unknown style in their midst which can overwhelm him and cause a mental meltdown. Therefore, to avoid such a predicament, a person with high Se develops a compulsive urge to control others and limit their scope of possible detailing to a small predictable set he can manage coherently with the best harmonious effect, without the risk of being surprised by unforeseen impressionable consequences.
  • Intolerant Se: Since a person with high Se is unable to endure a discordant detailing environment, he resorts to being judgemental about others' outward styles, and persuades or forces them to fall in line with the accepted cultural trends.
  • Si Angel: At some point in time, every person with high Se has secretly wished that someone would show him who he truly is, and provide answers to whether his judgement is sound in tradition.
  • The more the mind is directed outwards towards Se, the more it is focused away from Si. Every step taken towards Se is a step away from Si. Therefore, someone with a pronounced Se will have a diminished Si (and vice versa).
  • So paradoxically, it turns out that the more sensations one seeks outside, the less capable he is to recall them inside. The more flamboyant one appears, the less substantial he is. The more strongly they impose their style and cultural trends, the less strongly they understand it themselves.
3.) Introverted Intuition (or Ni):
(Perspectives)
What is Ni ?
  • The natural preference to look at a situation by a core internal set of abstract elements like meanings, patterns, prospects, strategy and insight.
  • Having an internal path-finding framework that is self-generated, self-referenced, inward-oriented, convergent (eliminating), and is independent of time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ "Instinct".
  • The ability to import an external reality into the mind, and then transpose it onto one's internal path-finding framework, to arrive at an understanding of the situation โ€“ "Prescience".
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the internal abstract paradigm is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Meanings and imagination are given priority over concrete information and details โ€“ while probabilities, planning and deconstruction are given precedence over possibilities, potential and transformation โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to be comfortable in the full range and depth of one's own instincts without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Transcendence".
  • The compulsion to create and follow an internal code of conceptual practices that should not be violated โ€“ "Conviction".
Let's go deeper to understand Ni...

  • Secure Ni: A person with pronounced Ni is solidly anchored to his own insights and self-assured in the knowledge that his instincts are unshakeable. Such a person castles himself in and walls off his instinct system from external influences. He tends to hoard his insights, guard them from the world, and is less willing to share them with others. Whenever he wants, he has the native ability to pierce through the clutter to grasp the essence of the situation without needing much external help or guidance.
  • Ni Tolerance: Once such a person has secured himself, he can now afford to be selective about entertaining a wide variety of conflicting external ideas and perspectives without the risk of being discomforted by them too much. And hence, he makes little effort to control the conceptual atmosphere around him. This makes him extremely non-judgemental and tolerant of other people and their instinct systems (as long as they don't threaten the person's core instincts).
  • Ni Protestor: But if anyone tries to question the person's core instincts and asks him to act against them, then it is considered as an attack on the castle walls. The person vehemently protests and fights back to defend his insights.
  • Retarded Ne (see below for Ne): Since the person with high Ni is convinced of his self-sufficiency in meanings and instinct systems, he feels that he does not need to solicit any more of the same from outside. Such a person becomes complacent and neglects his Ne. This negatively affects his ability to explain his own insights and appreciate the ideas of others around him. He can come across as incoherent, unimaginative, stubborn, weird and creatively infertile. It diminishes the ability to effectively lead another person or group.
  • Non-adaptive Ni: If the person's conservative internal instinct system is later found to be inaccurate, out-of-depth and out-of-sync with that of a changing world, then that person finds himself stuck in the sand and isolated โ€“ unwilling and incapable of changing his views โ€“ until he takes steps to develop and hone his Ne.
  • Ne Burnout: When a person with high Ni attempts to do Ne things, it causes the expenditure of a lot of mental energy accompanied by confusion, discomfort and stress. After a while, he will feel overworked, tired and mentally drained. So he instinctively aborts the process and turns back to recharge and recover.
  • Ne Resistance: If a person with high Ni is thrust into a high Ne environment, he may find it repulsive and choking to live up to its ways, and may respond with evasion, defiance and even revolt against the prevailing thought order.
  • Ne Overcompensator: If, out of desperation or desire to fit in, such a person forces himself to blend in with a Ne crowd and tries his best to mask his unrefined Ne, his inexperience causes him to misinterpret and overplay the required role. He places excessive emphasis on the wrong ideas, and exhibits perspectives that are disproportionate with everyone else's. This makes him look phony, fake, disjointed, and ironically, he ends up standing out from the others with greater contrast than before.
  • The more the mind is directed inwards towards Ni, the more it is focused away from Ne. Every step taken towards Ni is a step away from Ne. Therefore, someone with a pronounced Ni will have a diminished Ne (and vice versa).
  • So paradoxically, it turns out that the more insights one has inside, the less he capable he is to explain them outside. The more conceptually strong one is, the less coherent he appears. The more meaningful and strategic one is, the less inclined he is to impose them onto others.
4.) Extroverted Intuition (or Ne):
(Exploration)
What is Ne ?
  • The natural preference to look at a situation by an expansive external set of abstract elements like ideas, concepts, opinions, paradigms and perspective.
  • Having an external path-finding framework that is foreign-originated, multi-referenced, outward-oriented, divergent (accumulating), and is dependent on time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ "Panorama".
  • The ability to seek, sense and absorb the meanings, patterns and concepts from external sources and interconnect them โ€“ without giving too much regard to the underlying details and style โ€“ to arrive at an understanding of the situation.
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the external abstract perspective is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Meanings and imagination are given priority over concrete information and details โ€“ while possibilities, potential and transformation are given precedence over probabilities, planning and deconstruction โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to outwardly project ideas and prospects, which are in consonance and harmony with the external conceptual atmosphere, without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Creativity".
  • The compulsion to create and enforce an external code of abstract metrics that should not be violated โ€“ "Vision" (think "Thought Police").
Let's go deeper to understand Ne...
(Exploration)
  • Ni Void: A person with pronounced Ne is someone with an underdeveloped Ni. He can't quite locate his own internal seat of instincts. So every time something triggers a predictive response, the act of trying to understand it causes the expenditure of a lot of mental energy accompanied by confusion, discomfort and stress. After a while, he will feel overworked, overwhelmed and mentally drained. To avoid being put into such a predicament again, he resorts to painstakingly create his own mental path-finding framework for future reference, as a hedge to compensate for the lack of Ni.
  • Ne Mapping: To acquire a sense of each situation, the person with pronounced Ne starts at a subconscious level by acutely observing people's external opinions, and correlating their ideas and concepts to their subsequent meanings and prospects. After such validation, they slowly get good at being attuned to the strategies and insights of others.
  • Ne Mimic: As the person comes to grip with the language of ideas, he begins to communicate with others in the same language, by closely voicing the prospects nearest to the idea he wants to convey. This way he opens up a two-way street towards conceptual understanding and shared goals, establishing excellent negotiating skills and enhances the ability to effectively lead another person or group.
  • Ne Repertoire: As the years go by, and the statistical number of observations and interactions increase with various concepts, the person has steadily built-up a sizeable mental framework to deal with each new situation according to a past data-set. Over time, their repository of insights and strategies have swelled to such levels that sometimes they can deal with a situation in a better way than people with Ni.
  • Ne Dead-End: However, when a novel and hitherto-unseen situation appears, a person with high Ni can natively make sense of it. But, for the person with high Ne, it has landed outside the purview of his mental path-finding framework and hit a blind spot. So he once again finds himself confused, disoriented and without answers, unable to judge for himself. Such powerlessness in the face of uncertainty can be a source of great discomfort, nervousness and stress. The way out is another cycle of studying, gathering and validating meanings.
  • Controller Ne: If such a person is put in charge of a group setting, working with too many people can mean handling too much diversity and chaos. He will be terrified by the prospect of accidentally encountering an unknown predictive situation in their midst which can overwhelm him and cause a mental meltdown. Therefore, to avoid such a predicament, a person with high Ne develops a compulsive urge to control others and limit their scope of possible ideas to a small predictable set he can manage coherently with the best harmonious effect, without the risk of being surprised by unforeseen transformative consequences.
  • Intolerant Ne: Since a person with high Ne is unable to endure a discordant predictive environment, he resorts to being judgemental about others' outward ideas, and persuades or forces them to fall in line with the accepted visionary ideals.
  • Ni Angel: At some point in time, every person with high Ne has secretly wished that someone would show him the purpose and meaning in life, and provide answers to whether his judgement is sound in insight.
  • The more the mind is directed outwards towards Ne, the more it is focused away from Ni. Every step taken towards Ne is a step away from Ni. Therefore, someone with a pronounced Ne will have a diminished Ni (and vice versa).
  • So paradoxically, it turns out that the more ideas one comes up with outside, the less capable he is to validate them inside. The more inspirational one appears, the less sure he is. The more strongly they impose their opinions and visionary ideals, the less strongly they understand it themselves.
5.) Introverted Feeling (or Fi):
(Authenticity)
What is Fi ?
  • The natural preference to judge a situation by a core internal set of subjective elements like feelings, values, morals, principles and character.
  • Having an internal subjective framework that is self-generated, self-referenced, inward-oriented, convergent (eliminating), and is independent of time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ a "Universal Moral Code".
  • The ability to import an external reality into the mind, and then transpose it onto one's internal subjective framework, to arrive at an understanding of the situation โ€“ "Empathy".
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the internal subjective standards is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Humane considerations are given priority over logic and rationality โ€“ while individual good of one-and-all is given precedence over collective good of a group โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to be comfortable in the full range and depth of one's own emotions without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Emotional Intelligence".
  • The compulsion to create and follow an internal code of subjective practices that should not be violated โ€“ "Integrity".
Let's go deeper to understand Fi...
(Authenticity)
  • Secure Fi: A person with pronounced Fi is solidly anchored to his own emotions and self-assured in the knowledge that his values are unshakeable. Such a person castles himself in and walls off his value system from external influences. He tends to hoard his feelings, guard them from the world, and is less willing to share them with others. Whenever he wants, he has the native ability to pierce through the clutter to grasp the essence of the situation without needing much external help or guidance.
  • Fi Tolerance: Once such a person has secured himself, he can now afford to be selective about entertaining a wide variety of conflicting external values and principles without the risk of being discomforted by them too much. And hence, he makes little effort to control the emotional atmosphere around him. This makes him extremely non-judgemental and tolerant of other people and their value systems (as long as they don't threaten the person's core values).
  • Fi Protestor: But if anyone tries to question the person's core values and asks him to act against them, then it is considered as an attack on the castle walls. The person vehemently protests and fights back to defend his principles.
  • Retarded Fe (see below for Fe): Since the person with high Fi is convinced of his self-sufficiency in emotions and value systems, he feels that he does not need to solicit any more of the same from outside. Such a person becomes complacent and neglects his Fe. This negatively affects his ability to express his own feelings and pick up the feelings of others around him. He can come across as stiff, unengaging, selfish, clumsy and socially inappropriate. It diminishes the ability to effectively manage another person or group.
  • Non-adaptive Fi: If the person's conservative internal value system is later found to be inaccurate, out-of-depth and out-of-sync with that of a changing world, then that person finds himself stuck in the sand and isolated โ€“ unwilling and incapable of changing his values โ€“ until he takes steps to develop and hone his Fe.
  • Fe Burnout: When a person with high Fi attempts to do Fe things, it causes the expenditure of a lot of mental energy accompanied by confusion, discomfort and stress. After a while, he will feel overworked, tired and mentally drained. So he instinctively aborts the process and turns back to recharge and recover.
  • Fe Resistance: If a person with high Fi is thrust into a high Fe environment, he may find it repulsive and choking to live up to its ways, and may respond with evasion, defiance and even revolt against the prevailing social order.
  • Fe Overcompensator: If, out of desperation or desire to fit in, such a person forces himself to blend in with a Fe crowd and tries his best to mask his unrefined Fe, his inexperience causes him to misinterpret and overplay the required role. He places excessive emphasis on the wrong emotion, and exhibits expressions that are disproportionate with everyone else's. This makes him look phony, fake, disjointed, and ironically, he ends up standing out from the others with greater contrast than before.
  • The more the mind is directed inwards towards Fi, the more it is focused away from Fe. Every step taken towards Fi is a step away from Fe. Therefore, someone with a pronounced Fi will have a diminished Fe (and vice versa).
  • So paradoxically, it turns out that the more feelings one has inside, the less he capable he is to express them outside. The more emotionally strong one is, the less socially graceful he appears. The more moral and righteous one is, the less inclined he is to impose them onto others.
6.) Extroverted Feeling (or Fe):
(Harmony)
What is Fe ?
Vultology Tutorial 8: Fe Signals
  • The natural preference to judge a situation by an expansive external set of subjective elements like emotions, expressions, body-language, etiquette and ethics.
  • Having an external subjective framework that is foreign-originated, multi-referenced, outward-oriented, divergent (accumulating), and is dependent on time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ a "Situational Social Reality".
  • The ability to seek, sense and absorb the feelings, emotions and context from external sources and interconnect them โ€“ without giving too much regard to the underlying facts and reasoning โ€“ to arrive at an understanding of the situation.
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the external subjective reality is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Humane considerations are given priority over logic and rationality โ€“ while collective good of a group is given precedence over individual good of one-and-all โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to outwardly project expressions and emotions, which are in consonance and harmony with the external subjective atmosphere, without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Social Intelligence".
  • The compulsion to create and enforce an external code of subjective metrics that should not be violated โ€“ "Harmony" (think "Moral Police").
Let's go deeper to understand Fe...
(Harmony)
  • Fi Void: A person with pronounced Fe is someone with an underdeveloped Fi. He can't quite locate his own internal seat of feelings. So every time something triggers an emotional response, the act of trying to understand it causes the expenditure of a lot of mental energy accompanied by confusion, discomfort and stress. After a while, he will feel overworked, overwhelmed and mentally drained. To avoid being put into such a predicament again, he resorts to painstakingly create his own mental subjective framework for future reference, as a hedge to compensate for the lack of Fi.
  • Fe Mapping: To acquire a sense of each situation, the person with pronounced Fe starts at a subconscious level by acutely observing people's external expressions, and correlating their emotions and body-language to their subsequent physical behaviour and reactions. After such validation, they slowly get good at being attuned to the feelings and needs of others.
  • Fe Mimic: As the person comes to grip with the language of emotions, he begins to communicate with others in the same language, by closely imitating the behaviour nearest to the emotion he wants to convey. This way he opens up a two-way street towards emotional understanding and rapport, establishing excellent interpersonal skills and enhances the ability to effectively manage another person or group.
  • Fe Repertoire: As the years go by, and the statistical number of observations and interactions increase with various people, the person has steadily built-up a sizeable mental framework to deal with each new situation according to a past data-set. Over time, their repository of emotions and responses have swelled to such levels that sometimes they can deal with a situation in a better way than people with Fi.
  • Fe Dead-End: However, when a novel and hitherto-unseen situation appears, a person with high Fi can natively make sense of it. But, for the person with high Fe, it has landed outside the purview of his mental subjective framework and hit a blind spot. So he once again finds himself confused, disoriented and without answers, unable to judge for himself. Such powerlessness in the face of uncertainty can be a source of great discomfort, nervousness and stress. The way out is another cycle of studying, gathering and validating emotional reactions.
  • Controller Fe: If such a person is put in charge of a group setting, working with too many people can mean handling too much diversity and chaos. He will be terrified by the prospect of accidentally encountering an unknown emotional situation in their midst which can overwhelm him and cause a mental meltdown. Therefore, to avoid such a predicament, a person with high Fe develops a compulsive urge to control others and limit their scope of possible emotions to a small predictable set he can manage coherently with the best harmonious effect, without the risk of being surprised by unforeseen emotional consequences.
  • Intolerant Fe: Since a person with high Fe is unable to endure a discordant emotional environment, he resorts to being judgemental about others' outward behaviour, and persuades or forces them to fall in line with the accepted social etiquettes.
  • Fi Angel: At some point in time, every person with high Fe has secretly wished that someone would show him how to feel things inside, and provide answers to whether his judgement is sound in principle.
  • The more the mind is directed outwards towards Fe, the more it is focused away from Fi. Every step taken towards Fe is a step away from Fi. Therefore, someone with a pronounced Fe will have a diminished Fi (and vice versa).
  • So paradoxically, it turns out that the more emotions one shows outside, the less capable he is to feel them inside. The more emotionally adept one appears, the less empathetic he is. The more strongly they impose their morality and social code, the less strongly they understand it themselves.
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7.) Introverted Thinking (or Ti):
(Accuracy)
What is Ti ?
Vultology Tutorial 7: Ti Signals
  • The natural preference to judge a situation by a core internal set of objective elements like logic, reason, theory, efficiency and intellect.
  • Having an internal objective framework that is self-generated, self-referenced, inward-oriented, convergent (eliminating), and is independent of time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ "The Objective Truth".
  • The ability to import an external reality into the mind, and then transpose it onto one's internal objective framework, to arrive at an understanding of the situation โ€“ "Critical Thinking".
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the internal objective standards is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Logic and rationality are given priority over humane considerations โ€“ while logical purity and efficiency are given precedence over practicality and effectiveness โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to be comfortable in the full range and depth of one's own logic without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Intellectual Intelligence".
  • The compulsion to create and follow an internal code of objective practices that should not be violated โ€“ "Honesty".
Let's go deeper to understand Ti...
(Accuracy)
  • Secure Ti: A person with pronounced Ti is solidly anchored to his own rationality and self-assured in the knowledge that his logic is unshakeable. Such a person castles himself in and walls off his logic system from external influences. He tends to hoard his thinking, guard them from the world, and is less willing to share them with others. Whenever he wants, he has the native ability to pierce through the clutter to grasp the essence of the situation without needing much external help or guidance.
  • Ti Tolerance: Once such a person has secured himself, he can now afford to be selective about entertaining a wide variety of conflicting external theories and reasoning without the risk of being discomforted by them too much. And hence, he makes little effort to control the argumentative atmosphere around him. This makes him extremely non-judgemental and tolerant of other people and their logic systems (as long as they don't threaten the person's core logic).
  • Ti Protestor: But if anyone tries to question the person's core logic and asks him to act against them, then it is considered as an attack on the castle walls. The person vehemently protests and fights back to defend his theory.
  • Retarded Te (see below for Te): Since the person with high Ti is convinced of his self-sufficiency in rationality and logic systems, he feels that he does not need to solicit any more of the same from outside. Such a person becomes complacent and neglects his Te. This negatively affects his ability to provide verifiable proof of his own theories and accept the evidence of others around him. He can come across as inattentive, unenterprising, indecisive, lazy and professionally incompetent. It diminishes the ability to effectively execute another operation or project.
  • Non-adaptive Ti: If the person's conservative internal logic system is later found to be inaccurate, out-of-depth and out-of-sync with that of a changing world, then that person finds himself stuck in the sand and isolated โ€“ unwilling and incapable of changing his thinking โ€“ until he takes steps to develop and hone his Te.
  • Te Burnout: When a person with high Ti attempts to do Te things, it causes the expenditure of a lot of mental energy accompanied by confusion, discomfort and stress. After a while, he will feel overworked, tired and mentally drained. So he instinctively aborts the process and turns back to recharge and recover.
  • Te Resistance: If a person with high Ti is thrust into a high Te environment, he may find it repulsive and choking to live up to its ways, and may respond with evasion, defiance and even revolt against the prevailing official order.
  • Te Overcompensator: If, out of desperation or desire to fit in, such a person forces himself to blend in with a Te crowd and tries his best to mask his unrefined Te, his inexperience causes him to misinterpret and overplay the required role. He places excessive emphasis on the wrong data, and exhibits actions that are disproportionate with everyone else's. This makes him look phony, fake, disjointed, and ironically, he ends up standing out from the others with greater contrast than before.
  • The more the mind is directed inwards towards Ti, the more it is focused away from Te. Every step taken towards Ti is a step away from Te. Therefore, someone with a pronounced Ti will have a diminished Te (and vice versa).
  • So paradoxically, it turns out that the more logic one has inside, the less he capable he is to prove them outside. The more rationally strong one is, the less officially enthusiastic he appears. The more structured and efficient one is, the less inclined he is to impose them onto others.
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8.) Extroverted Thinking (or Te):
(Effectiveness)
What is Te ?
Vultology Tutorial 9: Te Signals
  • The natural preference to judge a situation by an expansive external set of objective elements like facts, evidence, actions, rules and competence.
  • Having an external objective framework that is foreign-originated, multi-referenced, outward-oriented, divergent (accumulating), and is dependent on time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ "The Objective Reality".
  • The ability to seek, sense and absorb the logic, reasoning and rationale from external sources, and interconnect them โ€“ without giving too much regard to their underlying feelings and emotional expressions โ€“ to arrive at an understanding of the situation.
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the external objective reality is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Logic and rationality are given priority over humane considerations โ€“ while practicality and effectiveness are given precedence over logical purity and efficiency โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to outwardly project facts and actions, which are in consonance and harmony with the external objective atmosphere, without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Organizational Intelligence".
  • The compulsion to create and enforce an external code of objective metrics that should not be violated โ€“ "Authority" (think "Military Order").
Let's go deeper to understand Te...
(Effectiveness)
  • Ti Void: A person with pronounced Te is someone with an underdeveloped Ti. He can't quite locate his own internal seat of logic. So every time something triggers a theoretical response, the act of trying to understand it causes the expenditure of a lot of mental energy accompanied by confusion, discomfort and stress. After a while, he will feel overworked, overwhelmed and mentally drained. To avoid being put into such a predicament again, he resorts to painstakingly create his own mental objective framework for future reference, as a hedge to compensate for the lack of Ti.
  • Te Mapping: To acquire a sense of each situation, the person with pronounced Te starts at a subconscious level by acutely observing their subjects' external facts, and correlating their evidences and actions to their subsequent proofs and results. After such validation, they slowly get good at being attuned to the logic and objectives of others.
  • Te Mimic: As the person comes to grip with the language of proofs/results, he begins to communicate with others in the same language, by closely tailoring the evidence/action nearest to the proof/result he wants to convey. This way he opens up a two-way street towards factual understanding and trust, establishing excellent interoperative skills and enhances the ability to effectively execute another operation or project.
  • Te Repertoire: As the years go by, and the statistical number of observations and interactions increase with various things, the person has steadily built-up a sizeable mental framework to deal with each new situation according to a past data-set. Over time, their repository of facts and actions have swelled to such levels that sometimes they can deal with a situation in a better way than people with Ti.
  • Te Dead-End: However, when a novel and hitherto-unseen situation appears, a person with high Ti can natively make sense of it. But, for the person with high Te, it has landed outside the purview of his mental objective framework and hit a blind spot. So he once again finds himself confused, disoriented and without answers, unable to judge for himself. Such powerlessness in the face of uncertainty can be a source of great discomfort, nervousness and stress. The way out is another cycle of studying, gathering and validating facts/actions.
  • Controller Te: If such a person is put in charge of a group setting, working with too many people can mean handling too much diversity and chaos. He will be terrified by the prospect of accidentally encountering an unknown professional/official situation in their midst which can overwhelm him and cause a mental meltdown. Therefore, to avoid such a predicament, a person with high Te develops a compulsive urge to control others and limit their scope of possible actions to a small predictable set he can manage coherently with the best harmonious effect, without the risk of being surprised by unforeseen official consequences.
  • Intolerant Te: Since a person with high Te is unable to endure a discordant official environment, he resorts to being judgemental about others' outward actions, and persuades or forces them to fall in line with the accepted official rules.
  • Ti Angel: At some point in time, every person with high Te has secretly wished that someone would show him how to think things through, and provide answers to whether his judgement is sound in logic.
  • The more the mind is directed outwards towards Te, the more it is focused away from Ti. Every step taken towards Te is a step away from Ti. Therefore, someone with a pronounced Te will have a diminished Ti (and vice versa).
  • So paradoxically, it turns out that the more actions one shows outside, the less capable he is to think about them inside. The more authoritarian and decisive one appears, the less thoughtful and logical he is. The more strongly they impose their rules and official orders, the less strongly they understand it themselves.
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You may have a feminine or masculine cognitive function (unrelated to sex or gender)

Holistic: Feminine functions Ni, Si, Ne, Se, Te, Ti, Fe

Analytical: Masculine functions Ni, Si, Ne, Se, Te, Ti, Fe, Fi

Sexual Modalities(unrelated to gender):

Masculine Savior:
Detailed memory, great at recalling details

Feminine Savior: Visual memory, great at recalling visual

Masculine De: More confident with tribe, moveable with self, pushy

Feminine De: More confident with self, moveable with tribe, agreeable
Masculine & Feminine Functions

IxxJ, ExxP Observer: Can calmly use both reasons and values, not too much people-pleaser or self-centered, either very specialist or very generalist, likes to get more imformation

IxxP, ExxJ Decider: Can calmly see both realities and concepts, not too much generalist or specialist, either very people-pleaser or very self-centered, likes to be decisive


๐—™๐˜‚๐—ป๐—ฐ๐˜๐—ถ๐—ผ๐—ป ๐—ฃ๐˜‚๐—ฟ๐—ฝ๐—ผ๐˜€๐—ฒ ๐—ฅ๐—ผ๐—น๐—ฒ:

Ti, Fi Self: Needs their deicsions to be aligned with their reasons/values

Te, Fe Tribe: Needs their decisions to be validated by othersโ€™ reasons/values

Se, Ne Gather: Generalist, likes to know a bit about everything, does not mean master of none

Si, Ni Organize: Specialist, likes to know a lot about one thing, does not mean close-minded


๐—™๐˜‚๐—ป๐—ฐ๐˜๐—ถ๐—ผ๐—ป ๐—ฃ๐—ฟ๐—ผ๐—ฐ๐—ฒ๐˜€๐˜€๐—ฒ๐˜€:
Te, Ti Thinking: Using impersonal reasoning

Fe, Fi Feeling: Using personal values

Se, Si Sensing: Getting the realities, discrete facts, practical

Ne, Ni Intuiting: Getting the possibilities, connections, conceptual


Animal Stack:
Oe/De Play:
Spending energy, doing, energetic, may be fidgety, has to do something

Oi/Di Sleep: Preserving energy, calming down, placid, may be stagnant, easily sits still and does nothing

Oe/Di Blast: Giving known information to others

Oi/De Consume: Getting new information for yourself




886397

๏ฟผ
Font Paper Symmetry Document Paper product

886401

OP Database - Airtable
 

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One possible answer:



What
functions
are
and
what
theyโ€™re
not


funkymbtifiction:

SUBMITTED by Steve
image

Introverted Sensing
What itโ€™s not: Memory, traditions, conservatism, obsession over details
What it is: Subjective impressions of sensory data and experiences, archived away so it can be used for future references
Extroverted Sensing

What itโ€™s not: Athleticism, pleasure/thrill-seeking, disregard for consequences
What it is: Seeing things as they are first hand and reacting to them accordingly in the moment
Introverted Intuition

What itโ€™s not: 6th sense, esoteric powers and obsession over personal goals
What it is: searching for the implication of things, getting to the bottom line and synthesizing an idea that hasnโ€™t been concretely proven yet, whether it is right or wrong.
Extroverted Intuition
What itโ€™s not: Mental hyperactivity, flight of ideas and flakiness. Arguing different points of view just to be rattle people or being unique.
What it is: Exploring the different facets of reality, wanting to find different ways of interpreting data.
Introverted Feeling
What itโ€™s not: Repressing emotions so that no one can see them. Being deep and mysterious for the sake of being deep and mysterious.
What it is: Analyzing and acting on data according to oneโ€™s own personal feeling tone to it. Making personal sense of everything.
Extroverted Feeling
What itโ€™s not: Having emotions worn on their sleeves, abiding by social protocol even if it doesnโ€™t want to
What it is: Tapping into and adapting to the emotional atmosphere, considering the impact of oneโ€™s actions on others
Introverted Thinking
What itโ€™s not: Analyzing everything, being ruthlessly honest about oneโ€™s opinions because peopleโ€™s emotions donโ€™t matter
What it is: Analyzing and acting on data according to oneโ€™s own personal logical tone to it. Mentally taking apart things to make impersonal sense of it.
Extroverted Thinking
What itโ€™s not: Being a leader, wanting to control and getting things done at the expense of one and otherโ€™s feelings
What it is: Acting on what makes logical sense to oneself and others, arguing for rationality over emotions
(via mbti-resources)
 

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One thing I find intriguing about these eight functions is they are all either i or e. Question: Just how opposing are the i and e side? They must be in theory as one is introvertedly oriented while the other is extroverted. Does one favor the one so avidly that the other is forced to be unpleasantly developed? That is, is the other function shunted to the unconscious unless necessity is forced upon one?

I can elaborate myself as an example if anyone wishes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
One thing I find intriguing about these eight functions is they are all either i or e. Question: Just how opposing are the i and e side? They must be in theory as one is introvertedly oriented while the other is extroverted. Does one favor the one so avidly that the other is forced to be unpleasantly developed? That is, is the other function shunted to the unconscious unless necessity is forced upon one?

I can elaborate myself as an example if anyone wishes.
That's an interesting thought, I highly appreciate your introverted thinking. The way you think is interesting.:)
 
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One thing I find intriguing about these eight functions is they are all either i or e. Question: Just how opposing are the i and e side? They must be in theory as one is introvertedly oriented while the other is extroverted. Does one favor the one so avidly that the other is forced to be unpleasantly developed? That is, is the other function shunted to the unconscious unless necessity is forced upon one?

I can elaborate myself as an example if anyone wishes.
Xi and Xe rely on exactly the same function X.
If, without loss of generality, you are using Xi, then it isn't Xe that is pushed into unconsciousness.
What is pushed into unconsciousness is "e"(extraversion) and Y, where Y is the alternative function of the same group as X.

So, for instance, this :
Te, Fe Tribe: Needs their decisions to be validated by othersโ€™ reasons/values
Is a complete nonsense. Te doesn't need validation of others and it isn't "manager function". This "tribe/validation" crap comes from Objective Personality Theory, which is a scam cult that makes stuff up in an ad-hoc fashion to "explain" whatever they want and make people buy their "stories" about them. 16personalities test reveals more about you than OPT.
 

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Xi and Xe rely on exactly the same function X.
Each Xi and Xe have sensing, feeling, intuition or thinking in common.

If, without loss of generality, you are using Xi, then it isn't Xe that is pushed into unconsciousness.
There must be a better way of putting this. When Xi is used, Xe is not used. It can be ready in the subconscious.

What is pushed into unconsciousness is "e"(extraversion) and Y, where Y is the alternative function of the same group as X.
Would you accept that Xi or Xe can be used as a unified function or it can be separated into X, e, and i? That is, Xz is a whole and Xe and Xi are its parts?

Is a complete nonsense. Te doesn't need validation of others and it isn't "manager function". This "tribe/validation" crap comes from Objective Personality Theory, which is a scam cult that makes stuff up in an ad-hoc fashion to "explain" whatever they want and make people buy their "stories" about them. 16personalities test reveals more about you than OPT.
Complete? Te alone wouldn't need validation but if Fe is present it might be sought for verification as Te is fallible.

Crap? Is this your Fi speaking? I look for what truth is present. The rest may be no good.
 

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I can elaborate on myself as an example, not that anyone is interested, lol.
If I'm an INTP, INTP = Ti Ne Si Fe

Ti - I like to see how things might work underneath. There can be a beauty and truth in that if it ever finishes up.
Te - I hate to see these things put together as their application seems arbitrary to me. A necessary practicality.

Ne - A great supplier of what is out there to supply input to Ti.
Ni - A personal bias. Pretty vague for input. I can listen but there are alternatives.

Si - Another supplier of input for Ti which is specific, not general.
Se - Transient. I have to use it to exist but waste no love on it.

Fe - The escape from loneliness. It's where I seek validation.
Fi - Always there, but like Ni is a useful bias not representing general truths.
=============================================================

What about an INTJ = Ni Te Fi Se?
These guys are great for input. They have all the opposite functions.

Ni - I don't know what is going on. They will tell me if I'm wrong.
Te - Great to check out for universality for which I will seek what is missing.
Fi - I have to be careful not to offend as Fi is real.
Se - I will accept that they are practical. I am not ... at least in the short run.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
If I'm an INTP, INTP = Ti Ne Si Fe

Ti - I like to see how things might work underneath. There can be a beauty and truth in that if it ever finishes up.
Te - I hate to see these things put together as their application seems arbitrary to me. A necessary practicality.

Ne - A great supplier of what is out there to supply input to Ti.
Ni - A personal bias. Pretty vague for input. I can listen but there are alternatives.

Si - Another supplier of input for Ti which is specific, not general.
Se - Transient. I have to use it to exist but waste no love on it.

Fe - The escape from loneliness. It's where I seek validation.
Fi - Always there, but like Ni is a useful bias not representing general truths.
=============================================================

What about an INTJ = Ni Te Fi Se?
These guys are great for input. They have all the opposite functions.

Ni - I don't know what is going on. They will tell me if I'm wrong.
Te - Great to check out for universality for which I will seek what is missing.
Fi - I have to be careful not to offend as Fi is real.
Se - I will accept that they are practical. I am not ... at least in the short run.
That's terrific! it makes perfect sense, Extroverted attitudes attempt to make the inner self more like the outer world's objective ideal. Introverted attitudes attempt to make the outer world more like the inner self's subjective ideal. It appears to be correct; how would you describe the eight cognitive functions in the most accurate refined way? could you define the functions in more depth, based on your experiences or perspectives?

Ni, Ne, Se, Si, Te, Ti, Fe, Fi & [Xe, Xi, Ji, Je, Pi, Pe]

Ji=Ti, Fi
Je=Te, Fe
Pe=Ne, Se
Pi=Si, Ni

How would you define them? In your own Ti way? What are these functions saying to you?

You said feelings are real to Fi users, what about Fe users are feelings real to them? Do Fe users feel exactly the feelings of others or is it just sympathy? What's your take on that? Tell us about your Fe.
 

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There must be a better way of putting this. When Xi is used, Xe is not used. It can be ready in the subconscious.
No, there is a reason why I put it this way. X is like tea, while i/e is just temperature/shape of cup or a type of cookies that you picked for the tea.
This parameter doesn't change the nature of the tea itself, you end up drinking it in any case.

It can be ready in the subconscious.
"It" in this case is just "e".

Would you accept that Xi or Xe can be used as a unified function or it can be separated into X, e, and i? That is, Xz is a whole and Xe and Xi are its parts?
Xi or Xe are both "applications" of function X, rather than individual, separate psychological processes.
They can be separated into X, e and i components, yes, where X is the function, and "i" and "e" - attitudes that specify subject vs object relationship.

Ti - I like to see how things might work underneath. There can be a beauty and truth in that if it ever finishes up.
Te - I hate to see these things put together as their application seems arbitrary to me. A necessary practicality.
Both functions are about understanding how things work underneath and neither one is specific about being pragmatic.

Te is application of T under the object > subject order, which commands more objective/empirical approach that can be roughly exemplified by scientific method.
It's goal is to achieve pure, perfectly accurate understanding of the reality and complete logical-intellectual consistency in everything. Not to become the biggest boss and earn all the money in the world. That is merely a positive side-effect.

Ti is application of T under the subject > object attitude, which adds "metaphysical"/philosophical flavor to what T offers. Subjective ideas by themselves become driving motivation. Objective data is only instrumental, a means to prove the validity of ideas to others or serve as source of inspiration.

Both in the end seek to establish object = subject connection, but they approach it from different ends.
Ti wants to adjust the external/objective world to make it fit to it's subjective set of ideas/concepts.
Te wants to adjust its internal world of ideas to conceptualize the external world more accurately.
 

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how would you describe the eight cognitive functions in the most accurate refined way? could you define the functions in more depth, based on your experiences or perspectives?
I don't care to do that just now. Why? Suppose you asked me to define "warm." I don't care to do that either. I'd have to go through too many situations and if I'm lucky, come up with a workable generalization. Let another try it. Another comment is, each cognitive function is there to distinguish it from alternatives. Each is fuzzy, not precise as is warm versus cold. I can see defining warm versus cold but not each as an absolute.

J - choice making
P - observation making

Ji=Ti, Fi
Je=Te, Fe
Pe=Ne, Se
Pi=Si, Ni
Ji=Ti, Fi - each makes a choice versus some other choice, but in the inner world of the individual
Je=Te, Fe - same thing but in the social world
Pe=Ne, Se - My favorite meaning (not held by all) is one is about generalities outside the self; the other is about specifics
Pi=Si, Ni - I see Si as about specific experience as remembered while Ni is about a proposed generality observed by an individual
 
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No, there is a reason why I put it this way. X is like tea, while i/e is just temperature/shape of cup or a type of cookies that you picked for the tea.
This parameter doesn't change the nature of the tea itself, you end up drinking it in any case.
That is not clear to me. Sure you drink the tea. You are thinking of tea as being homogeneous throughout. If it were a cake, it would have a frosting, a topping and dough inside. They are different but remain cake as you say.

Xi or Xe are both "applications" of function X, rather than individual, separate psychological processes.
They can be separated into X, e and i components, yes, where X is the function, and "i" and "e" - attitudes that specify subject vs object relationship.
Would you accept that, yes, they are the same psychological processes but they cover different areas and are treated slightly differently as they exist in different contexts. An analogy is a sportsman can do wrestling or gymnastics. They remain an athlete but have different subtle attitudes.

Subject vs object? Not sure I understand that. Is that distinction useful? It doesn't quite ring with me.

Both functions are about understanding how things work underneath and neither one is specific about being pragmatic.

Te is application of T under the object > subject order, which commands more objective/empirical approach that can be roughly exemplified by scientific method.
It's goal is to achieve pure, perfectly accurate understanding of the reality and complete logical-intellectual consistency in everything. Not to become the biggest boss and earn all the money in the world. That is merely a positive side-effect.

Ti is application of T under the subject > object attitude, which adds "metaphysical"/philosophical flavor to what T offers. Subjective ideas by themselves become driving motivation. Objective data is only instrumental, a means to prove the validity of ideas to others or serve as source of inspiration.

Both in the end seek to establish object = subject connection, but they approach it from different ends.
Ti wants to adjust the external/objective world to make it fit to it's subjective set of ideas/concepts.
Te wants to adjust its internal world of ideas to conceptualize the external world more accurately.
Damned if I don't agree with that but the way you say it throws me for a loop. I'll quote you again and break it down.

"Both functions are about understanding how things work underneath and neither one is specific about being pragmatic." -
I'll live with that.

"Te is application of T under the object > subject order, which commands more objective/empirical approach that can be roughly exemplified by scientific method."
I'll live with that also, but why the object>subject reference? Does object mean the outside world and subject mean the user?

"Its goal is to achieve pure, perfectly accurate understanding of the reality and complete logical-intellectual consistency in everything. Not to become the biggest boss and earn all the money in the world."
Did you say you are an engineer? What kind? I want to say not everything.

"Ti is application of T under the subject > object attitude, which adds "metaphysical"/philosophical flavor to what T offers. Subjective ideas by themselves become driving motivation."
Why do I feel insulted by that? Meta/philo bullshito. I say Ti can propose a way of different looking at things, perhaps a classification not offered by Te. To the Te person that looks subjective. Maybe it is but maybe it is objective also. I think this needs work if we are going to see eye-to-eye.

"Both in the end seek to establish object = subject connection, but they approach it from different ends."
Okay.

"Ti wants to adjust the external/objective world to make it fit to it's subjective set of ideas/concepts.
Te wants to adjust its internal world of ideas to conceptualize the external world more accurately."
Alright. Note quite. Each one want to kick ass, but doesn't Te want to make things actually work? Ti says, try this. It may work.
 

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That is not clear to me. Sure you drink the tea. You are thinking of tea as being homogeneous throughout. If it were a cake, it would have a frosting, a topping and dough inside. They are different but remain cake as you say.
Yes, I selected homogeneous tea intentionally, because in both of its servings tea is equal not only conceptually, but is also the same in its fragrance and taste. Integrity of its substance is invariant to this complementary factor. Xi / i = Xe / e.

Another example can be just negative and positive charges or numbers or anything that involves polarity/dualities/symmetries.

Would you accept that, yes, they are the same psychological processes but they cover different areas and are treated slightly differently as they exist in different contexts. An analogy is a sportsman can do wrestling or gymnastics. They remain an athlete but have different subtle attitudes.
I wouldn't, unfortunately, because the domains and the ranges of these "functions" are the same, as it is exactly the same function.
The break in consistency for this specific analogy is the functional differences between wrestler and gymnast. One can't do what the other does with the same efficiency.
Reformulation or further specification is required.

Subject vs object? Not sure I understand that. Is that distinction useful? It doesn't quite ring with me.
Yes, I do find it quite useful, both in theory and in practice. Your own stance in this conflict, for instance, is self-evident and it helps with predicting your own motivations/processes.

I'll live with that also, but why the object>subject reference? Does object mean the outside world and subject mean the user?
Yes, object means objective data broadly. Not social world, not "thoughts of the others" narrowly, but what is invariant to the subject.
And subject means user, his personal/subjective world of ideas/impressions/feelings.
o>s means that you habitually prefer to change the internal to incorporate the change in the external.

Did you say you are an engineer? What kind?
Software, but this is mostly irrelevant.

I want to say not everything.
What makes you want to say so, your current internalized concepts? What I described is mostly the idealized principle of extraverted T. Realistically though, one won't be able to concern himself with the consistency of literally everything without any discrimination.

Why do I feel insulted by that? Meta/philo bullshito.
I say Ti can propose a way of different looking at things, perhaps a classification not offered by Te. To the Te person that looks subjective. Maybe it is but maybe it is objective also. I think this needs work if we are going to see eye-to-eye.
Haha. Well, my description can be biased unintentionally. Ti certainly can be objective and by being "subjective" I didn't mean to say useless/irrelevant.
Subjective factor is just as fundamental and inescapable part of our reality. And real people are never purely objective/subjective or reducible to some function.

Each one want to kick ass, but doesn't Te want to make things actually work? Ti says, try this. It may work.
Somewhat inaccurate, but these is some truth in that.
Te may want to make things actually work, but not because it doesn't care how they work and just wants to earn a lot of money asap.
It's just that its interest lies in the object, in the external. In the equations and laws that decide everything in the case of T specifically.

Ti can want this too, but mostly because it may want to see his own, personal ideas becoming a reality.
Not to make things consistent with these universal laws/equations, they are merely his tools.
 

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One thing I find intriguing about these eight functions is they are all either i or e. Question: Just how opposing are the i and e side? They must be in theory as one is introvertedly oriented while the other is extroverted. Does one favor the one so avidly that the other is forced to be unpleasantly developed? That is, is the other function shunted to the unconscious unless necessity is forced upon one?

I can elaborate myself as an example if anyone wishes.
As far as application goes, the opposition varies, as on a continuum. The more balanced the psyche, the less someone heavily relies on one side one over the other (or in other words, can consciously access and value both objective/extraverted and subjective/introverted criteria). So, yeah, the bolded statement would be a result if there is too much conscious focus on one side to the deficit of the other. This is the basis of the concept of dominant and inferior functions.

Both functions are about understanding how things work underneath and neither one is specific about being pragmatic.

Te is application of T under the object > subject order, which commands more objective/empirical approach that can be roughly exemplified by scientific method.
It's goal is to achieve pure, perfectly accurate understanding of the reality and complete logical-intellectual consistency in everything. Not to become the biggest boss and earn all the money in the world. That is merely a positive side-effect.

Ti is application of T under the subject > object attitude, which adds "metaphysical"/philosophical flavor to what T offers. Subjective ideas by themselves become driving motivation. Objective data is only instrumental, a means to prove the validity of ideas to others or serve as source of inspiration.

Both in the end seek to establish object = subject connection, but they approach it from different ends.
Ti wants to adjust the external/objective world to make it fit to it's subjective set of ideas/concepts.
Te wants to adjust its internal world of ideas to conceptualize the external world more accurately.
I don't think this is quite right, either... the common denominator for thinking isn't "understanding how things work underneath" but using a thinking process, in general. One could just as easily use Feeling, Intuition, or Sensation to make sense of "how things work."

It is possible to engage in a style of thinking that has almost no relationship to objective data - that would be like a "pure" Ti. In contrast, it is possible to completely ignore the subjective factors in thinking, and that would be a "pure" Te. The results are irrelevant to the process except for providing clues as to the character (more likely to be on a continuum in practice). So, the scientific method, empirical approaches, accuracy, pragmatism, philosophy, etc. aren't intrinsic to the process but only suggestive of it. And, the more unconscious that process is the harder it would be to determine how extraverted/introverted it might be.

I don't care to do that just now. Why? Suppose you asked me to define "warm." I don't care to do that either. I'd have to go through too many situations and if I'm lucky, come up with a workable generalization.
How do you justify "warm" being in your vocabulary if you can't be bothered to define it? A case-by-case basis? Context? How does it follow with:

"Ti - I like to see how things might work underneath. There can be a beauty and truth in that if it ever finishes up.
Te - I hate to see these things put together as their application seems arbitrary to me. A necessary practicality. "

Tangential, but might provide some insight into how your mind works, lol.

Subject vs object? Not sure I understand that. Is that distinction useful? It doesn't quite ring with me.
This is the basis of introversion and extraversion in Jungian type theory. That you've gotten this far in typology without that knowledge is pretty impressive (unless I'm missing something). Perhaps very Ti of you? :p
 

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I don't think this is quite right, either... the common denominator for thinking isn't "understanding how things work underneath" but using a thinking process, in general. One could just as easily use Feeling, Intuition, or Sensation to make sense of "how things work."
I didn't intend to pose understanding as a key feature of thinking. My point was that both functions could serve this purpose in equal measure.
It is possible to engage in a style of thinking that has almost no relationship to objective data - that would be like a "pure" Ti. In contrast, it is possible to completely ignore the subjective factors in thinking, and that would be a "pure" Te.
Not that I claimed otherwise.
Although, both styles will be just as "pure" or, rather, "sterile" in their results.
The results are irrelevant to the process except for providing clues as to the character (more likely to be on a continuum in practice). So, the scientific method, empirical approaches, accuracy, pragmatism, philosophy, etc. aren't intrinsic to the process but only suggestive of it. And, the more unconscious that process is the harder it would be to determine how extraverted/introverted it might be.
These scientific methods and philosophies merely illustrated the superficial character of each style.
 

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I don't strongly disagree with anything you've said. It's just that I seek useful clarity, not that I will know how to find it.

object means objective data broadly. Not social world, not "thoughts of the others" narrowly, but what is invariant to the subject.
And subject means user, his personal/subjective world of ideas/impressions/feelings.
true enough, but I am sneaky. I can find subjectivity in objective rendering and objectivity in subjective expression. This leads me to not want to use the terms "objective" and "subjective."

Ti can want this too, but mostly because it may want to see his own, personal ideas becoming a reality.
Not to make things consistent with these universal laws/equations, they are merely his tools.
This could be a bad example. The square has objective properties that everyone accepts (Te). However Ti can go after the square and propose usages. Those usages may be objectively acceptable in some way, but the acceptance of which among a dozen choices will be subjective.
 

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As far as application goes, the opposition varies, as on a continuum. The more balanced the psyche, the less someone heavily relies on one side one over the other (or in other words, can consciously access and value both objective/extraverted and subjective/introverted criteria). So, yeah, the bolded statement would be a result if there is too much conscious focus on one side to the deficit of the other. This is the basis of the concept of dominant and inferior functions.
If the Myers-Briggs theory has any merit, people will favor one end of the continuum even if it is a continuum. I think that is the case, but anyone can dispute that.

How do you justify "warm" being in your vocabulary if you can't be bothered to define it? A case-by-case basis? Context? How does it follow with:
My first unthought out reaction is it is contextual.

How does it follow with:
"Ti - I like to see how things might work underneath. There can be a beauty and truth in that if it ever finishes up.
Te - I hate to see these things put together as their application seems arbitrary to me. A necessary practicality. "
Here is how it might follow. I might not want to do a Ti on "warm." The result will be no result.

If a Te person presents a hot stove as warm and a rocket exhaust as warm, I won't be enlightened. I will want to know why both are warm even if I believe both are warm. Without doing Ti, I observe those examples as ugly because warm is left hanging. No relationship is presented. There is no relationship. After thinking about it a while I can to a Ti proposal as to why both are warm. Then the Te person can check the proposal out.

@Allostasis. BTW can either of you define "thinking"? I once saw a seminar of Ph.D.s where they couldn't do it. That set me to try to nail them to the wall. Sometimes Ph.D.s just can't cut the mustard.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
If the Myers-Briggs theory has any merit, people will favor one end of the continuum even if it is a continuum. I think that is the case, but anyone can dispute that.


My first unthought out reaction is it is contextual.


Here is how it might follow. I might not want to do a Ti on "warm." The result will be no result.

If a Te person presents a hot stove as warm and a rocket exhaust as warm, I won't be enlightened. I will want to know why both are warm even if I believe both are warm. Without doing Ti, I observe those examples as ugly because warm is left hanging. No relationship is presented. There is no relationship. After thinking about it a while I can to a Ti proposal as to why both are warm. Then the Te person can check the proposal out.

@Allostasis. BTW can either of you define "thinking"? I once saw a seminar of Ph.D.s where they couldn't do it. That set me to try to nail them to the wall. Sometimes Ph.D.s just can't cut the mustard.
Yeah, Ti doms, who have an internal logic analysing function and can think deeply, have been the most forerunners of technology and inventions.

Te doms can't think for themselves, so they frequently have to read books or collect and obsorb external information. Te users, like Fe users who obsorbs Fi, Te users obsorb the thinking of Ti users.

Fe users, unlike Fi users, do not have an internal feeling reaction analyser, which makes them less neurotic and causes them to mirror Fi users.

Te users will mirror the Ti user, giving the impression that the Te user is smarter, yet it is the Ti user and not the Te users who is intelligent.

Unlike Te users Ti users don't need to take notes to logically understand something, they can understand it in their own unique way. Most technologies have been developed and designed by Ti users.

Te users can understand and obsorb all that information but they can't think for themselves until they have absorbed a lot from the Ti users around them, However, Te users are extremely sensitive to being labelled dumb, so they put on a show of intelligence to avoid being labelled as such.

The Fears of the Extraverted Thinker Te:
โ€œYouโ€™re weak.โ€
โ€œYouโ€™re incompetent.โ€
โ€Youโ€™re stupid.โ€
โ€œYou talk nonsense.โ€
โ€œYou donโ€™t know what youโ€™re talking about.โ€

Wish:
โ€œYouโ€™re strong and bold.โ€
โ€œYou can do this and youโ€™ll get it done.โ€
โ€œYouโ€™re smart.โ€
โ€œYou make sense.โ€
โ€œYou speak firmly and with confidence. You must know very well what youโ€™re talking about.โ€

The fears of the Introverted Thinker (Ti):
โ€œYouโ€™re believing lies.โ€
โ€œYouโ€™re lying.โ€
โ€œYouโ€™re incoherent.โ€
โ€œYouโ€™re inconsistent and defective.โ€
โ€œPieces are missing. You are hiding something from me.โ€

Wish:
โ€œYouโ€™re discerning.โ€
โ€œYouโ€™re truthful.โ€
โ€œYouโ€™re brilliant.โ€
โ€œYouโ€™re original and innovative.โ€
โ€œYouโ€™re highly proficient at describing and explaining concepts.โ€

 

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View attachment 886393

Warning: Long answer below.

According to the MBTI (Myers-Briggs Type Indicator) theory, a person has 4 Functions โ€“ 2 are for Perceiving (P), 2 are for Judging (J).

The 2 Perceiving Functions are: Sensing (S) and Intuition (N).

The 2 Judging Functions are: Feeling (F) and Thinking (T).

Each of these functions can be either Introverted (i) or Extroverted (e).

Hence, there are a total of 8 functions. In this article, we shall be looking intuitively at each of the eight functions.

1.) Introverted Sensing (or Si):
(Memory)
What is Si ?
  • The natural preference to look at a situation by a core internal set of empirical elements like memory, familiarity, hierarchy, habits and tradition.
  • Having an internal positioning framework that is self-generated, self-referenced, inward-oriented, convergent (eliminating), and is independent of time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ "Identity".
  • The ability to import an external reality into the mind, and then transpose it onto one's internal positioning framework, to arrive at an understanding of the situation โ€“ "Experience".
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the internal empirical standards is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Concrete information and details are given priority over meanings and imagination โ€“ while reliability, preservation and diligence are given precedence over adaptability, gratification and impulsiveness โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to be comfortable in the full range and depth of one's own identity without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Heritage".
  • The compulsion to create and follow an internal code of empirical practices that should not be violated โ€“ "Duty".
Let's go deeper to understand Si...
(Memory)

2.) Extroverted Sensing (or Se):
(Sensation)
What is Se ?
  • The natural preference to look at a situation by an expansive external set of empirical elements like details, novelty, spontaneity, presentation and style.
  • Having an external positioning framework that is foreign-originated, multi-referenced, outward-oriented, divergent (accumulating), and is dependent on time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ a "Situational Awareness".
  • The ability to seek, sense and absorb the identity, hierarchy and culture from external sources and interconnect them โ€“ without giving too much regard to the underlying meanings and motives โ€“ to arrive at an understanding of the situation.
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the external empirical reality is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Concrete information and details are given priority over meanings and imagination โ€“ while adaptability, gratification and impulsiveness are given precedence over reliability, preservation and diligence โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to outwardly project impressions and style, which are in consonance and harmony with the external empirical atmosphere, without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Trend-fitting".
  • The compulsion to create and enforce an external code of empirical metrics that should not be violated โ€“ "Culture" (think "Fashion Police").
Let's go deeper to understand Se...
(Sensation)

3.) Introverted Intuition (or Ni):
(Perspectives)
What is Ni ?
  • The natural preference to look at a situation by a core internal set of abstract elements like meanings, patterns, prospects, strategy and insight.
  • Having an internal path-finding framework that is self-generated, self-referenced, inward-oriented, convergent (eliminating), and is independent of time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ "Instinct".
  • The ability to import an external reality into the mind, and then transpose it onto one's internal path-finding framework, to arrive at an understanding of the situation โ€“ "Prescience".
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the internal abstract paradigm is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Meanings and imagination are given priority over concrete information and details โ€“ while probabilities, planning and deconstruction are given precedence over possibilities, potential and transformation โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to be comfortable in the full range and depth of one's own instincts without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Transcendence".
  • The compulsion to create and follow an internal code of conceptual practices that should not be violated โ€“ "Conviction".
Let's go deeper to understand Ni...


4.) Extroverted Intuition (or Ne):
(Exploration)
What is Ne ?
  • The natural preference to look at a situation by an expansive external set of abstract elements like ideas, concepts, opinions, paradigms and perspective.
  • Having an external path-finding framework that is foreign-originated, multi-referenced, outward-oriented, divergent (accumulating), and is dependent on time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ "Panorama".
  • The ability to seek, sense and absorb the meanings, patterns and concepts from external sources and interconnect them โ€“ without giving too much regard to the underlying details and style โ€“ to arrive at an understanding of the situation.
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the external abstract perspective is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Meanings and imagination are given priority over concrete information and details โ€“ while possibilities, potential and transformation are given precedence over probabilities, planning and deconstruction โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to outwardly project ideas and prospects, which are in consonance and harmony with the external conceptual atmosphere, without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Creativity".
  • The compulsion to create and enforce an external code of abstract metrics that should not be violated โ€“ "Vision" (think "Thought Police").
Let's go deeper to understand Ne...
(Exploration)

5.) Introverted Feeling (or Fi):
(Authenticity)
What is Fi ?
  • The natural preference to judge a situation by a core internal set of subjective elements like feelings, values, morals, principles and character.
  • Having an internal subjective framework that is self-generated, self-referenced, inward-oriented, convergent (eliminating), and is independent of time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ a "Universal Moral Code".
  • The ability to import an external reality into the mind, and then transpose it onto one's internal subjective framework, to arrive at an understanding of the situation โ€“ "Empathy".
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the internal subjective standards is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Humane considerations are given priority over logic and rationality โ€“ while individual good of one-and-all is given precedence over collective good of a group โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to be comfortable in the full range and depth of one's own emotions without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Emotional Intelligence".
  • The compulsion to create and follow an internal code of subjective practices that should not be violated โ€“ "Integrity".
Let's go deeper to understand Fi...
(Authenticity)

6.) Extroverted Feeling (or Fe):
(Harmony)
What is Fe ?
Vultology Tutorial 8: Fe Signals
  • The natural preference to judge a situation by an expansive external set of subjective elements like emotions, expressions, body-language, etiquette and ethics.
  • Having an external subjective framework that is foreign-originated, multi-referenced, outward-oriented, divergent (accumulating), and is dependent on time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ a "Situational Social Reality".
  • The ability to seek, sense and absorb the feelings, emotions and context from external sources and interconnect them โ€“ without giving too much regard to the underlying facts and reasoning โ€“ to arrive at an understanding of the situation.
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the external subjective reality is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Humane considerations are given priority over logic and rationality โ€“ while collective good of a group is given precedence over individual good of one-and-all โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to outwardly project expressions and emotions, which are in consonance and harmony with the external subjective atmosphere, without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Social Intelligence".
  • The compulsion to create and enforce an external code of subjective metrics that should not be violated โ€“ "Harmony" (think "Moral Police").
Let's go deeper to understand Fe...
(Harmony)

View attachment 886405
7.) Introverted Thinking (or Ti):
(Accuracy)
What is Ti ?
Vultology Tutorial 7: Ti Signals
  • The natural preference to judge a situation by a core internal set of objective elements like logic, reason, theory, efficiency and intellect.
  • Having an internal objective framework that is self-generated, self-referenced, inward-oriented, convergent (eliminating), and is independent of time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ "The Objective Truth".
  • The ability to import an external reality into the mind, and then transpose it onto one's internal objective framework, to arrive at an understanding of the situation โ€“ "Critical Thinking".
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the internal objective standards is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Logic and rationality are given priority over humane considerations โ€“ while logical purity and efficiency are given precedence over practicality and effectiveness โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to be comfortable in the full range and depth of one's own logic without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Intellectual Intelligence".
  • The compulsion to create and follow an internal code of objective practices that should not be violated โ€“ "Honesty".
Let's go deeper to understand Ti...
(Accuracy)

View attachment 886404
8.) Extroverted Thinking (or Te):
(Effectiveness)
What is Te ?
Vultology Tutorial 9: Te Signals
  • The natural preference to judge a situation by an expansive external set of objective elements like facts, evidence, actions, rules and competence.
  • Having an external objective framework that is foreign-originated, multi-referenced, outward-oriented, divergent (accumulating), and is dependent on time, place, person and circumstances โ€“ "The Objective Reality".
  • The ability to seek, sense and absorb the logic, reasoning and rationale from external sources, and interconnect them โ€“ without giving too much regard to their underlying feelings and emotional expressions โ€“ to arrive at an understanding of the situation.
  • Anything that is found to be inconsistent and incongruent with the external objective reality is red-flagged, isolated and questioned.
  • Logic and rationality are given priority over humane considerations โ€“ while practicality and effectiveness are given precedence over logical purity and efficiency โ€“ before arriving at the value of a decision.
  • The ability to outwardly project facts and actions, which are in consonance and harmony with the external objective atmosphere, without feeling confused or exhausted โ€“ "Organizational Intelligence".
  • The compulsion to create and enforce an external code of objective metrics that should not be violated โ€“ "Authority" (think "Military Order").
Let's go deeper to understand Te...
(Effectiveness)

View attachment 886395
You may have a feminine or masculine cognitive function (unrelated to sex or gender)

Holistic: Feminine functions Ni, Si, Ne, Se, Te, Ti, Fe

Analytical: Masculine functions Ni, Si, Ne, Se, Te, Ti, Fe, Fi

Sexual Modalities(unrelated to gender):

Masculine Savior:
Detailed memory, great at recalling details

Feminine Savior: Visual memory, great at recalling visual

Masculine De: More confident with tribe, moveable with self, pushy

Feminine De: More confident with self, moveable with tribe, agreeable
Masculine & Feminine Functions

IxxJ, ExxP Observer: Can calmly use both reasons and values, not too much people-pleaser or self-centered, either very specialist or very generalist, likes to get more imformation

IxxP, ExxJ Decider: Can calmly see both realities and concepts, not too much generalist or specialist, either very people-pleaser or very self-centered, likes to be decisive


๐—™๐˜‚๐—ป๐—ฐ๐˜๐—ถ๐—ผ๐—ป ๐—ฃ๐˜‚๐—ฟ๐—ฝ๐—ผ๐˜€๐—ฒ ๐—ฅ๐—ผ๐—น๐—ฒ:

Ti, Fi Self: Needs their deicsions to be aligned with their reasons/values

Te, Fe Tribe: Needs their decisions to be validated by othersโ€™ reasons/values

Se, Ne Gather: Generalist, likes to know a bit about everything, does not mean master of none

Si, Ni Organize: Specialist, likes to know a lot about one thing, does not mean close-minded


๐—™๐˜‚๐—ป๐—ฐ๐˜๐—ถ๐—ผ๐—ป ๐—ฃ๐—ฟ๐—ผ๐—ฐ๐—ฒ๐˜€๐˜€๐—ฒ๐˜€:
Te, Ti Thinking: Using impersonal reasoning

Fe, Fi Feeling: Using personal values

Se, Si Sensing: Getting the realities, discrete facts, practical

Ne, Ni Intuiting: Getting the possibilities, connections, conceptual


Animal Stack:
Oe/De Play:
Spending energy, doing, energetic, may be fidgety, has to do something

Oi/Di Sleep: Preserving energy, calming down, placid, may be stagnant, easily sits still and does nothing

Oe/Di Blast: Giving known information to others

Oi/De Consume: Getting new information for yourself




View attachment 886397
๏ฟผ
View attachment 886398
View attachment 886401
OP Database - Airtable
Too much all at once... need to take it all in...
 

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Te doms can't think for themselves, so they frequently have to read books or collect and obsorb external information. Te users, like Fe users who obsorbs Fi, Te users obsorb the thinking of Ti users.
Question: Assuming you are an INTJ, you are a Te user. What brought you to post such a favorable Ti message? (This is my Fe speaking which I'm aware of.) I compliment you for stepping out of a Te frame ... or did you since you copied (LOL) a link!

Here is an addition to Myers-Briggs theory. There is another dimension besides the S/N, F/T, P/J one. That is one of developed action. A user may not have developed their favorite function. They may not have developed their "shadow" function. This is not just overlooked. It's not part of the Myers-Briggs theory unless I've missed it.

Apply to Ti versus Te. Te works with the outside world not developing theory. They get outside world things done though not necessarily in the best way. Ti works levels down, spending their energy on that which means they may never finish, thus failing to develop a working object at all.
 
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@BigApplePi Thinking is thinkingโ€ฆ more curious a question is what is an โ€œunthoughtโ€? Can you unthink a thought, or is it more like a fuzzy and unsubstantiated thought? Iโ€™ve had plenty of those. Probably 90% of them would qualify as โ€œunthoughtsโ€ which cannot discern meaning without being tested first.

Speaking of,

@Allostasis I misunderstood some of your statements. Thanks for clarifying!
 
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