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Yo! I'd like to apologize ahead of time. I'm feeling pretty lazy and so I'm probably just gonna answer the question point-blank.

1) Definitely. When I first read the social description, I was thinking, "Oh no, this can't be me. I'm too much of a mess to be this," but when I looked at the descriptions for the others and how social reacts to different stackings, it dawned on me.

2) Less flamboyant. I'd say I'm less eccentric in social environments because I"m trying to adapt to the situation and not push my own desires onto my peers. I think it makes me unwittingly agreeable, which is something I'd rather not be because I feel like a outcast and a pushover at the same time. What an oxymoron.

3) Pretty damn social. For example, right now I'm sitting in my school's student lounge. The moment I walked in, my first instinct was to sniff out my friend so I could sit by her, talk animatedly about my weekend for a minute or two, listen to her gossip, and then silently sit together. However, this does not make me an extrovert. If I were dragged to a night-club, you best bet that I'm going to take a book and journal with me so I can read or people-watch.

4) While I'm not too out-there like some 4 sx's, I've definitely had moments to display my eccentric nature. When I was younger, I'd run off into my backyard or grandparent's woods and scream at the sky and God to give me a purpose or meaning to my life. As I grow older, I didn't hesitate to bash other people's taste in shows and music, ignoring the fact that I listen to some WEIRD stuff (ie progressive death metal and folk operas). I'm more protective of my passions than I am of myself.
 

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Hello! I think I'm an so/sx (potentially sx/so) and I wanted to ask some questions. Feel free to write at length.

1.Did you struggle to figure out your stacking?
2. How would you say you differ from sx/so?
3. How social are you?
4. How does the sx instinct manifest?
I thought I was an sx/sp at first "because of my depth" (and my modesty, apparently).

Deep connection doesn't really matter to me with every single person. Actually, there's quite a lot of people I *don't* want to get close to or know deeply.

For me, the social instinct is all about groups, and when I realized that I am always looking at and evaluating "the group," who's in charge? What's the hierarchy? What are we trying to do? What are we about? etc, etc, then I realized I was a social main instinct in the enneagram theory.

My sociability comes out when I feel useful and valuable, like I have something to add that could benefit someone or the group.

I am not sociable just to be sociable, but I am very sociable and extraverted at work and doing charity work or something where I can excel and be useful/valuable.

In my understanding, SX is about connection, intensity, merging, unity, and the like.

I read somewhere that the main instict is the one that we're **compelled** to act upon, and it is where a lot of the problems, or perceived problems for the ego arise, so for social doms, most of the struggles or complaints would have to do with the group dynamics, acceptance, belonging, etc.

And the 2nd instinct in the stacking is where we're most at ease, so in that idea, so/sx's are able to get very close with people and travel as far as they're willing to go (and share at the same depth too), but it's not that big of a deal if there's only a surface level relationship.

For an SX dom, it would bother them immensely for someone to keep things at a surface level when they wanted to go deeper, as it would bother an SO dom to be kept out of a group they wanted to be in or accepted in. (I guess these are all basic human desires, but I guess it's about values, somewhat)

But if we're talking about an sx/so, it wouldn't bother them that much to be left out of the group, (or at least as much as an SO dom) they'd just find a way to fulfill SX needs.

Hopefully that makes sense and was helpful
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Yo! I'd like to apologize ahead of time. I'm feeling pretty lazy and so I'm probably just gonna answer the question point-blank.

1) Definitely. When I first read the social description, I was thinking, "Oh no, this can't be me. I'm too much of a mess to be this," but when I looked at the descriptions for the others and how social reacts to different stackings, it dawned on me.

2) Less flamboyant. I'd say I'm less eccentric in social environments because I"m trying to adapt to the situation and not push my own desires onto my peers. I think it makes me unwittingly agreeable, which is something I'd rather not be because I feel like a outcast and a pushover at the same time. What an oxymoron.

3) Pretty damn social. For example, right now I'm sitting in my school's student lounge. The moment I walked in, my first instinct was to sniff out my friend so I could sit by her, talk animatedly about my weekend for a minute or two, listen to her gossip, and then silently sit together. However, this does not make me an extrovert. If I were dragged to a night-club, you best bet that I'm going to take a book and journal with me so I can read or people-watch.

4) While I'm not too out-there like some 4 sx's, I've definitely had moments to display my eccentric nature. When I was younger, I'd run off into my backyard or grandparent's woods and scream at the sky and God to give me a purpose or meaning to my life. As I grow older, I didn't hesitate to bash other people's taste in shows and music, ignoring the fact that I listen to some WEIRD stuff (ie progressive death metal and folk operas). I'm more protective of my passions than I am of myself.
.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I thought I was an sx/sp at first "because of my depth" (and my modesty, apparently).

Deep connection doesn't really matter to me with every single person. Actually, there's quite a lot of people I don't want to get close to or know deeply.

For me, the social instinct is all about groups, and when I realized that I am always looking at and evaluating "the group," who's in charge? What's the hierarchy? What are we trying to do? What are we about? etc, etc, then I realized I was a social main instinct in the enneagram theory.

My sociability comes out when I feel useful and valuable, like I have something to add that could benefit someone or the group.

I am not sociable just to be sociable, but I am very sociable and extraverted at work and doing charity work or something where I can excel and be useful/valuable.

In my understanding, SX is about connection, intensity, merging, unity, and the like.

I read somewhere that the main instict is the one that we're compelled to act upon, and it is where a lot of the problems, or perceived problems for the ego arise, so for social doms, most of the struggles or complaints would have to do with the group dynamics, acceptance, belonging, etc.

And the 2nd instinct in the stacking is where we're most at ease, so in that idea, so/sx's are able to get very close with people and travel as far as they're willing to go (and share at the same depth too), but it's not that big of a deal if there's only a surface level relationship.

For an SX dom, it would bother them immensely for someone to keep things at a surface level when they wanted to go deeper, as it would bother an SO dom to be kept out of a group they wanted to be in or accepted in. (I guess these are all basic human desires, but I guess it's about values, somewhat)

But if we're talking about an sx/so, it wouldn't bother them that much to be left out of the group, (or at least as much as an SO dom) they'd just find a way to fulfill SX needs.

Hopefully that makes sense and was helpful
.
 

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You talk about 'the group' and that's a term I often see people use to talk about the social instinct. Would you say that you sometimes struggle to see people as individuals, because of your social instinct?
Yeaaaaa, this is true. It's like you see the individual like this. At leas tfor me, but I'm SO/SP so I still have the SO Dom.

You see people in these ways.

1. Who they are in the group
2. Who they are compared to you in the group
3. Who they are compared to you when it's just the two of you.



If I'm the cool guy in the group and the person is a quiet shy person I can fear having a 1 on 1 long conversation with them alone because they might find out I'm not so cool and confident anymore and that they are alot more confident then me. Like I fear that that image I put in the group won't sustain in 1 on 1 conversation sometimes. And it'll turn from cool guy and shy person to, not so cool guy and not so shy person lol.

I'm also very extraverted at work like the other poster said which is funny lol. And my SO feels super col when I get glances from people seeing how much I stand out in the group, only problem is I can sense some of them want me to approach them and have some 1 on 1 conversation and I just keep bouncing from person to person. If I ever land on someone they are a very good friend already.

My Sp just complains lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Yeaaaaa, this is true. It's like you see the individual like this. At leas tfor me, but I'm SO/SP so I still have the SO Dom.

You see people in these ways.

1. Who they are in the group
2. Who they are compared to you in the group
3. Who they are compared to you when it's just the two of you.



If I'm the cool guy in the group and the person is a quiet shy person I can fear having a 1 on 1 long conversation with them alone because they might find out I'm not so cool and confident anymore and that they are alot more confident then me. Like I fear that that image I put in the group won't sustain in 1 on 1 conversation sometimes. And it'll turn from cool guy and shy person to, not so cool guy and not so shy person lol.

I'm also very extraverted at work like the other poster said which is funny lol. And my SO feels super col when I get glances from people seeing how much I stand out in the group, only problem is I can sense some of them want me to approach them and have some 1 on 1 conversation and I just keep bouncing from person to person. If I ever land on someone they are a very good friend already.

My Sp just complains lol.
.
 

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Interesting, that you say you bounce around because that's sort of stereotypically so/sx, constantly moving between people, but you dislike 1 on 1 conversations. I'm still not sure about my variants but I actually prefer one to one over group interactions because then it gives the me the opportunity to see who that person really is. Occasionally I find somebody that I click with and in group settings I'll stick with that person, try to get closer to them individually and move my way into a group of people that way. I think that's usually how I connect with people.
Ok that might be because I have no SX. If you have SO/SX then yea I can see you sticking to one person.
 

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Consider myself "revealed."

Did you struggle to figure out your stacking?
Immensely. In any of the more simple understandings of the word "social," it would be clear that I'd be Social last. The anti-social Social. The loner type Social. So I typed at Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx, neither really sitting well because really, my Self Pres is absolutely horrible. I had considered Social before, few of the reasons being that I've been struggling with social anxiety for a great number of years, something that I'm finally beginning to turn around, and also my great hyper awareness of expectations, which of course only worsens the anxiety. On top of that, one of the best skills I posses is my ability for observing people. It's just what I do. I've always seen and connected people in a web of archetypes, similar to how the Enneagram itself does it. Yet, I have been my own blindspot.
My isolation and negative attitude around much of the social world have prevented me from typing at Social first.​

How would you say you differ from sx/so?
For as flashy and eye-catching and unique and interesting I can dress, I act in the most appropriate way towards people. I am kind and friendly, virtually always (not on these boards - different social setting :wink:). I am not a firecracker, a firestarter. I am not someone to draw attention to myself for the sake of stirring up the environment so that I could increase the potential of being noticed and attracting the "right" person. No. I am far too aware of the need for social acceptance, even if I stand on the sidelines - always. But my own neurosis and anxiety around the social realm is too great for me to cause such upheaval and draw so much critical attention to myself. I'd sink through the floor in embarrassment. Awareness of expectations is too high, too debilitating to handle the social element in such a care-free way. I put too much of my self-worth in how other people see and treat me. It's too sensitive, too vulnerable, too...
I am also not as obsessed with the relationship the way they are. Oh I get obsessed about a person alright, but I don't feel the need to talk and talk about the relationship. To me, once the relationship is established, that is my foundation and it is unshakable. I don't have much way of stress around it.​

How social are you?
I am not. Just not. Yes, I am friendly, I know how to placate people, how to seem approachable and I am an expert at getting people to like me. I am invested in seeing myself as charming, as someone who knows how to "handle" people. Yet, I am a loner. I am an observer of people, one on the sidelines. Anti-social. Do not want to be involved with people. I dread the expectations, feels like I can't be myself.​

How does the sx instinct manifest?
In my desire to desire. I am very easily aware of the spark, the fire, between myself and.. anyone and anything. I shows up in my need to dress colorful, making a powerful impact on people (lot of social in that too), my style being very unique and eye-catching. A need to stand out, to let people know what I am and what I'm after.​
 

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@Daeva, if you don't mind me asking, what made you change your instinct to So/sx?

I have always kind of seen you as stereotypical SX first, likely Sx/so instead of sx/sp. I am also super shy in groups, but then I am an introvert. And yeah I can get nervous and feel restrained very much because of that awareness of social dynamics, but my SO despite being secondary, isn't that weak; it's pretty strong. I do however, feel that my SX is easily more vulnerable to trauma, and that I have been hurt and find it harder to recover in this area compared to my SO. I still would hate to make a fool of myself socially, and it would probably hurt me and make me cry a bit, but I will get over it I think. While issues with my SX just feel too overwhelming...ha.

Are you aware of the things SO firsts are? Not just that the social world exists, which I mean, I am aware of also, but a lot more nuanced intelligence, or "gear-like thoughts" as they call them, that apparently SO firsts have. Being aware of the relationship between members of a group, the hierarchy involved, etc.

EDIT: I do notice though, unlike SX firsts, you may not put as much of yourself out there. Which is why I have trouble typing you, in the past. But some people, SX first or not, are naturally more private than others. So, I don't know.
 

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@Daeva, if you don't mind me asking, what made you change your instinct to So/sx?

I have always kind of seen you as stereotypical SX first, likely Sx/so instead of sx/sp. I am also super shy in groups, but then I am an introvert. And yeah I can get nervous and feel restrained very much because of that awareness of social dynamics, but my SO despite being secondary, isn't that weak; it's pretty strong. I do however, feel that my SX is easily more vulnerable to trauma, and that I have been hurt and find it harder to recover in this area compared to my SO. I still would hate to make a fool of myself socially, and it would probably hurt me and make me cry a bit, but I will get over it I think. While issues with my SX just feel too overwhelming...ha.

Are you aware of the things SO firsts are? Not just that the social world exists, which I mean, I am aware of also, but a lot more nuanced intelligence, or "gear-like thoughts" as they call them, that apparently SO firsts have. Being aware of the relationship between members of a group, the hierarchy involved, etc.

EDIT: I do notice though, unlike SX firsts, you may not put as much of yourself out there. Which is why I have trouble typing you, in the past. But some people, SX first or not, are naturally more private than others. So, I don't know.
The first time I came to PerC, the Enneagram forum specifically, I immediately knew who the "big players" were. What "camps" there were, and if I were to interact with them, which one I'd "belong" to. Which was a curious thing, because I don't have the habit to seeing me "fit in" with people. Really, it was one of the big reasons why I was typing at "Beta NF" as well. The attunement to group- and power dynamics. I feel like I have a good sense of how to leverage this too. I'm a decent navigator of these things, but one that usually stands on the sidelines. Hell, I was the one telling @Animal how much of an influence she had here. She's blissfully unaware lol.

And yeah, Sx/So people aren't always going to be razing hell all the time. The ones I know are actually quite smooth. But that's what I feel I am missing for myself; that smoothness, that ease with which Sx/So approaches the social realm. I know that they have their self-consciousness with it, but at the same time they use it well and aren't as enslaved by this awareness the way I am. Like what you say about the trauma, I feel like that with Social. I've had great difficulties adjusting to a society that, the way I see it, doesn't care for people like me. "People like me" being dreamers, idealists, people who live from the heart first. I feel a great injustice there, and it's been the cause of great prolonged suffering in my life. Feeling like I'm on national tv anytime there are people around. Hyper self-consciousness, to the point that it really fucks me over. It feels like something I can never really escape, and those chains are horror for me.

Sx issues on the other hand.. it's like how you talk about the Social stuff. I do obsess, and I do hurt over it, but I do move on. And that is something I don't see in the Sx/So people that I know.
 

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@Daeva
While I can't say the idea of Social for you is very shocking, I'm wondering what brought on this typing change now?
A process of severe disillusionment and disappointment in the attitudes and approaches of the Enneagram community at large. As in, I was right about the flaws that I feared would exist in the supposed teachers, though I wasn't expecting to be this disappointed. Hope for better can be a real downer lol. So in essence, I basically let my sadness run through me, not forcefully rejecting the system, not hopelessly clinging to it. Just feel the pain over time. It's strange, I've always known this had to happen, because the emotional foundation I had in my approach to the Enneagram was too... needy. I knew the tower had to come down, so I let it. Too much left-brain thinking, overthinking and over rationalizing. The bane of mistypes. In moments of true disappointment and hopelessness is where my heart is the clearest. And in such a moment, I had said that, by any definition and description of the type, I'm a type four. I've seen my archetype, the potential for good or evil, and it's one that falls decidedly in the role of the romantic. The fallen knight. The sad paladin. The search for myself has been the central theme of my life. It's my trap and my liberation. A search for magic.

 

Helion the Sunveil Paladin by Simon Dubuc

 

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No worries about the reply! I think it's interesting that you say that you are social. How much of that do you think is influenced by your three wing, as most 4w3's tend to be more social than 4w5s? I know a lot of unhealthy so 4's can be very anti-social and despise society but I don't really feel that way. I spend a lot of time alone and I don't mind most of the time but I do relate to what you said about you speak to your friend.
I do attribute a lot of my more extroverted habits to the w3 rather than my instinctual stacking. For me, being social is not necessarily about getting my fill of human interaction for the week. As a barista and a tutor, I don't need to set aside more time to feel like I'm in the loop (besides, am I ever fully in the loop or is tihs just another fruitless pursuit?). It's more like a courtesy thing as pretentious as that sounds. I mean that if one of my friends wants to hang out or if they're just chilling by their lonesome, I'll initiate contact first so that I know their needs are met and that they don't need me to be shoulder to cry on or a verbal punching bag for them to vent. And hey, if I'm having fun with them, no harm done, right?

When I'm focused on my own social needs, it's typically because I'm trying to network and climb my way into better chances, lol. I'm an emotional artist but a stone-cold friend. I guess that's why I even have them; they like the honesty.
 

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Hello ! Hope it's not too late...

1.Did you struggle to figure out your stacking?
2. How would you say you differ from sx/so?
3. How social are you?
4. How does the sx instinct manifest?

1/
Kind of... I eliminated self-preservation rather quickly, but between social and sexual...
I would have said sexual first because I'm usually more comfortable face to face than in a large group, but I do care a lot about social dynamics, what are the norms, why are they so etc...
And the theme of "shame" in a social 4 fits me better than the theme of "competition" in the sexual 4. Although I do experience it sometimes.

2/
The competition aspect. I'm never a competitor "in the field", I do not try that hard to win over somebody as long as I'm learning something or I'm enjoying myself.
On the other hand, I have this recurring fantasies of "making it" (ie becoming a popular writer/singer/musician/tv analyst or some variant), fantasizing less on the performance itself than on the admiration I would get from a select few people (loved ones, close ones, people who have doubted me)
I imagine sexual 4s are more direct, more anger-prone, more in-your-face. I'm subdued in comparison.

3/
It's weird. I can be social, but I need my pilot fish... If I have an extraverted outgoing friend with me, I let loose. I'm comfortable, people view me as nice, charming, literate, clever, generally attractive.
If I'm on my own, it's hit or miss. Somebody notices me and starts engaging me, then it's all good. If I don't get attention right away, I go back into my shell and as time goes by it gets more difficult to get out of it.
I don't really care about neighbors, most of the time it's just "hello" or passing by while they don't notice me. But from time to time I will feel like it and strike conversation.
Even if it's only for a few banalities, I always try to sneak in some lame joke and I feel really proud of myself afterwards.
At work... When I'm comfortable with the workplace mood, I'm funny and engaging. If not, I'm cold and remote. I like it light and funny but not overly noisy and crowded, not all the time at least.
I hate cautious environments, walking on eggshells.
I should have said that at the beginning, but I can definitely spend several days in a row without needing social contact. I feel the itch of it eventually, but later than most people I know.

4/
To be brief about it, I crave for deep connection with one person in particular.
Twenty people I know in a party, yet I can spend the whole night talking to only one person if the conversation is interesting.
I'm also quite addictive.
 
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