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Just stumbled in here a few days ago and I've been reading voraciously; this after devouring 3 books on the Enneagram. (Typical 7 behavior, right?)

ANYWAY... as I began studying the Enneagram I was INSTANTLY sure I was a 2. I'm forever helping others with time, encouragement and money. I've bought several cars for people who needed the help, paid for some house remodeling for a friend whose son was seriously injured after being hit by a car and didn't have any money to change the tub to a shower, install handrails, etc., etc., etc. I happily pay for friends to travel, etc. etc., etc. In short- I love "helping" others... usually to excess. Classic 2, right?

That said- I am the first to admit that in about 95% of these cases it's women I help: usually attractive women who are recently divorced, etc.. :rolleyes: Needless to say this causes my wife LOTS of emotional stress- understandably. I feel "drawn" to help these individuals and they really ARE difficult situations where help is desperately needed... but still.

I fit several other aspects of 2ness as well and I absolutely LOVE the positive strokes and feedback my generosity produces from these individuals- but also appreciation from a wider audience as well: "Wow! You're such a great guy- so generous and kind and caring!" 2's can never get enough "attaboys".

BUT....

Studying further in the Enneagram brought me to sevens. The overwhelmingly dominant force in my life is PURE 7! With plenty of disposable income, I indulge my every passing interest, buying several cars each year, boats, collectibles, musical instruments, etc., etc., etc. Boredom is anathema to me and my mind is continuously swirling with "plans" and researching every new topic under the sun. Yet each acquisition brings ZERO satisfaction after 24 hours and it's on to the next topic or acquisition. It's exhausting frankly. I'm the life of every party, the consummate entertainer, storyteller, sit and there's always a crowd around me. In short- as I read about sevens... it's ME! Start to finish, top to bottom- I'm a seven.

So now... back to the 2 behaviors. I think it's POSSIBLE that each of these individuals (as I said, usually single, attractive women) that need help simply pop onto my radar like the latest guitar or sports car- an appealing, interesting, charming "acquisition" that's really more about exploring something new and shiny than genuinely helping someone for altruistic reasons. There is admittedly almost always a sexual attraction and usually an "energy" between the two of us- though it has never lead to any inappropriate behavior and I wouldn't ever want it to. But it's exciting and "tingly" to experience each new relationship and to genuinely make a difference in someone's difficult situation.

Bottom line: I have NO DOUBT I'm a 7 at my core... actually a 7w6 specifically. But I'm trying to understand HOW this 2-like behavior ties into my 7ness as I want to become more purposeful and integrated in my behavior.

Thoughts??
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I've just read a little about tritypes, but not enough to understand it yet. That's worth looking into more deeply. Thanks for the heads-up and the link. Clearly there's some SX and some "2" going on in my head! LOL!
 

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Just stumbled in here a few days ago and I've been reading voraciously; this after devouring 3 books on the Enneagram. (Typical 7 behavior, right?)

ANYWAY... as I began studying the Enneagram I was INSTANTLY sure I was a 2. I'm forever helping others with time, encouragement and money. I've bought several cars for people who needed the help, paid for some house remodeling for a friend whose son was seriously injured after being hit by a car and didn't have any money to change the tub to a shower, install handrails, etc., etc., etc. I happily pay for friends to travel, etc. etc., etc. In short- I love "helping" others... usually to excess. Classic 2, right?

That said- I am the first to admit that in about 95% of these cases it's women I help: usually attractive women who are recently divorced, etc.. :rolleyes: Needless to say this causes my wife LOTS of emotional stress- understandably. I feel "drawn" to help these individuals and they really ARE difficult situations where help is desperately needed... but still.

I fit several other aspects of 2ness as well and I absolutely LOVE the positive strokes and feedback my generosity produces from these individuals- but also appreciation from a wider audience as well: "Wow! You're such a great guy- so generous and kind and caring!" 2's can never get enough "attaboys".

BUT....

Studying further in the Enneagram brought me to sevens. The overwhelmingly dominant force in my life is PURE 7! With plenty of disposable income, I indulge my every passing interest, buying several cars each year, boats, collectibles, musical instruments, etc., etc., etc. Boredom is anathema to me and my mind is continuously swirling with "plans" and researching every new topic under the sun. Yet each acquisition brings ZERO satisfaction after 24 hours and it's on to the next topic or acquisition. It's exhausting frankly. I'm the life of every party, the consummate entertainer, storyteller, sit and there's always a crowd around me. In short- as I read about sevens... it's ME! Start to finish, top to bottom- I'm a seven.

So now... back to the 2 behaviors. I think it's POSSIBLE that each of these individuals (as I said, usually single, attractive women) that need help simply pop onto my radar like the latest guitar or sports car- an appealing, interesting, charming "acquisition" that's really more about exploring something new and shiny than genuinely helping someone for altruistic reasons. There is admittedly almost always a sexual attraction and usually an "energy" between the two of us- though it has never lead to any inappropriate behavior and I wouldn't ever want it to. But it's exciting and "tingly" to experience each new relationship and to genuinely make a difference in someone's difficult situation.

Bottom line: I have NO DOUBT I'm a 7 at my core... actually a 7w6 specifically. But I'm trying to understand HOW this 2-like behavior ties into my 7ness as I want to become more purposeful and integrated in my behavior.

Thoughts??
are you sure you're typed correctly? although we're generally friendly and sociable, 7s by nature are selfish and hedonistic. we may help people, but it's generally not something we spend the majority of our time doing. and we don't have much use for "attaboys". I think you are a 2w3 with a 7w6 fix and definitely So dom
 

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I'm similar. I'm 7w8-2w1-8w9sx/so Tritype & this whole "7's are selfish & hedonistic" stuff is putting me off. I've always scored high with 7, 7 has always SLIGHTLY won over 2. For a while I thought I was 2-7-8, my recent research though tells me I've had it kinda flipped & that I'm 7-2-8. I COMPLETELY relate with 7 when it comes to every single behavior & trait in all the descriptions except for a couple things, 1 of those things is putting yourself before others. I don't do that, I've never done that, I never will. I'm about as selfless as it gets. According to my research, only descriptions of UNhealthy 7's show signs of great selfishness. I've read that if you're pretty balanced & healthy, that being selfish isn't a very common thing. Though, there are a ton of selfish people in this world, maybe a decent fraction of those people are 7's & that's why there is this generalization/stereotype? I despise that some people on these forums tend to emphasize that some types are better than others, that certain types have more "good" traits within them. I see selfishness as a very negative unnecessary thing, something to grow away from & better yourself. Negative things should never be considered a part of personality. Negative means unhealthy, therefore, not you're true form. That's just my belief. :)
 

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Honestly, it's really just @Swordsman of Mana that I see constantly saying things like 7's are selfish and care more about their happiness than others. Hedonistic, I've seen in other texts, but not selfishness. If anything, so 7's can seem very similar to 2's and can actually like helping people. The only difference is that a 2 doesn't mind helping others the majority of the time whereas a 7 can sometimes feel conflicted about helping others versus pursuing their own goals.
 

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I'm similar. I'm 7w8-2w1-8w9sx/so Tritype & this whole "7's are selfish & hedonistic" stuff is putting me off. I've always scored high with 7, 7 has always SLIGHTLY won over 2. For a while I thought I was 2-7-8, my recent research though tells me I've had it kinda flipped & that I'm 7-2-8. I COMPLETELY relate with 7 when it comes to every single behavior & trait in all the descriptions except for a couple things, 1 of those things is putting yourself before others. I don't do that, I've never done that, I never will. I'm about as selfless as it gets. According to my research, only descriptions of UNhealthy 7's show signs of great selfishness. I've read that if you're pretty balanced & healthy, that being selfish isn't a very common thing. Though, there are a ton of selfish people in this world, maybe a decent fraction of those people are 7's & that's why there is this generalization/stereotype? I despise that some people on these forums tend to emphasize that some types are better than others, that certain types have more "good" traits within them.
7 is an Id type. Id types in general are more selfish. 3s seek their own gratification, victory, acclaim etc; 8s seek power, control; 7s seek pleasure and entertainment and avoid pain and boredom (obviously, a 7 may like helping people, be caring and considerate, etc, but no core 7 is going to devote their life to others. that's just not happening

I see selfishness as a very negative unnecessary thing, something to grow away from & better yourself.
this is where we differ. I see selfishness as a very positive thing. selfish people get what they want. selfish people are also happier, experience less pain and are less conscientious

Negative things should never be considered a part of personality. Negative means unhealthy, therefore, not you're true form. That's just my belief. :)
you're missing the entire point of the enneagram if you think including negative characteristics in descriptions should not be done. the enneagram is a tool to give people the reality bitch slap, akin to "you are delusional, wake up!". the enneagram is a distortion in one's view of reality. a distortion which causes certain ego fixations and negative behavior patterns. the positive traits of an enneagram type are side effects to an overall harmful delusion. (in the case of 7, their fixation leads to difficulty with delayed gratification, struggles with discipline/hard work, difficulty concentrating and similar issues)
btw, you seem to have a tendency to think "the negative isn't important, let's ignore it and focus on the positive" and this is very much a bias of the positive outlook triad (2s, 7s and 9s)


@leadintea
Hedonistic, I've seen in other texts, but not selfishness. If anything, so 7's can seem very similar to 2's and can actually like helping people
you can be selfish and still like to help people (and you're right, a large number of 7s do) they may even be service oriented, in fact, the majority of descriptions say that we tend to be generous when we can afford to be, but what I'm saying is that the vast majority of the 7's mental resources are not geared toward "how can I help others?" the primary focuses of 7s are comfort, escapism, hedonism and entertaining themselves. obviously, enneagram related interests don't account for the only significant influence on one's thoughts (there are several) but the core fixations of 7s are selfish in nature.


EDIT: @Boompa
sorry for the derail
my opinion of your type is 2w3-7w6-9w1 in some order, but not core 9. reading through it a second time, the fact that you have disposable income is very relevant. 7s tend to be quite generous when they have plenty of extra income (but not when they don't) and this can look very 2-ish. you also mentioned that much of the time, they tend to be single, attractive women, in which case your generosity is not type related and has to do with the fact that you're a guy and feel compelled to help them because they're hot.
 

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@leadintea

you can be selfish and still like to help people (and you're right, a large number of 7s do) they may even be service oriented, in fact, the majority of descriptions say that we tend to be generous when we can afford to be, but what I'm saying is that the vast majority of the 7's mental resources are not geared toward "how can I help others?" the primary focuses of 7s are comfort, escapism, hedonism and entertaining themselves. obviously, enneagram related interests don't account for the only significant influence on one's thoughts (there are several) but the core fixations of 7s are selfish in nature.
I see where you're coming from. Thanks for the clarification.
 

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I see where you're coming from. Thanks for the clarification.
interesting. I was prepared for a long debate, I wasn't expecting to come to an agreement so soon XD (I think part of it is I'm used to getting into disagreements with Ts, where two NFs in a disagreement are more about trying to come to a mutual understanding)
@Boompa
here's a few more key differences
- 2s tend to think in a slightly more obligatory way. "I need to help him" ""we have to do something about this" 7s on the other hand rarely if ever think in terms of obligation. 2s consider helping people a responsibility; 7s do not, they do it because they want to/feel like it. it's an in the moment thing rather than in the case of the 2 in which it's often much more premeditated (now that I think about it
- similarly, the 2 tends to be somewhat more conscientious than the 7. the natural demeanor of type 7 is very much "devil may care" where the 2s natural demeanor runs more towards "let's help the family" (particularly if they're So first. I don't know much about Sp dom 2s, they are probably a lot harder to spot)

2s and 7s both tend to have friendly, sociable demeanors, but their internal struggles are completely different
- the 2 struggles with self worth. there internal subconscious dialogue is "I will be valuable with I am a good person and people love me" 2s integrate to 4 when they learn to get in touch with their own feelings and learn to accept themselves unconditionally "what do I want?" "I don't need to constantly put myself in positions where people need me in order to be worth something"
- the 7 struggles with fear. this is less obvious at first (7s are in the denial triad along with 9 and 3 and in the head center, so they deny fear), but it is the route of their problems. most people procrastinate at least a little bit and somethings find hard work a drag, but for the 7 this is more severe. 7s are afraid of hard work, they are afraid of boredom or feeling unsatisfied (to use a personal example. I've noticed I'm often a little bit nervous when I place an order. the concept of them messing up something and bringing me a meal I don't find delicious kinda scares me. I know, pathetic right? LOL). most of all though, the 7 fears pain. pain is the antithesis of the 7's internal world.
 

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but no core 7 is going to devote their life to others. that's just not happening
Oh yes they will, particularly if they are their own flesh and blood.
And it will feel like an obligation, and a responsibility, and it will drain them to be needed all the time.
My bliss is when I can get away and not think about all those that depend upon me. Though I love them dearly and will do my very best by them...it's still WORK...rewarding, yet very hard work.
(As I'm using escapism to deal with just being in the vicinity of people who need me.)



Oh, and to answer the OP.
I had a bit of a god complex for a while. I wanted people to want me, need me, depend on me, acknowledge how great I was. I thought I was being selfless, but when it came down to it, I liked the strokes it gave me. It drained my emotional resources and kept me from focusing on myself and my obligations. It may have been yet another form of escapism. It was a symptom of unhealth in me. Be careful.
 

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interesting. I was prepared for a long debate, I wasn't expecting to come to an agreement so soon XD (I think part of it is I'm used to getting into disagreements with Ts, where two NFs in a disagreement are more about trying to come to a mutual understanding)
My qualm with your original post was about 7's being selfish, but since you explained how you personally view selfishness as a positive thing, I was able to see what you mean by your post.
 

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Oh yes they will, particularly if they are their own flesh and blood.
no

And it will feel like an obligation, and a responsibility,
7s do not place obligation on themselves. mature 7s learn the ability to be responsible (like everyone else needs to) but they do not view helping people as a responsibility

and it will drain them to be needed all the time.
this we can agree one

My bliss is when I can get away and not think about all those that depend upon me. Though I love them dearly and will do my very best by them...it's still WORK...rewarding, yet very hard work.
(As I'm using escapism to deal with just being in the vicinity of people who need me.)

Oh, and to answer the OP.
I had a bit of a god complex for a while. I wanted people to want me, need me, depend on me, acknowledge how great I was. I thought I was being selfless, but when it came down to it, I liked the strokes it gave me. It drained my emotional resources and kept me from focusing on myself and my obligations. It may have been yet another form of escapism. It was a symptom of unhealth in me. Be careful.
I suggest looking more into 2w1, 1w2 or 6w7. you are clearly a superego core type (at the very least, you cannot be 7-2-4. 2 and 4 are both in the heart center)
 

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Well I am a 7, so there! :p
you are clearly a superego core type
I don't even know what you mean by superego...all I know is that I was terribly insecure and was compensating by trying to find value in very bad relationships. It was unhealthy and toxic to me. I can't explain it all to you or the process of healing I needed to go through to be freed of the restraints, oppression, and hurts that I had suffered.
I have found my bliss and I'm confident that I am typed properly, whether you agree or not.
 

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Well I am a 7, so there! :p

I don't even know what you mean by superego...all I know is that I was terribly insecure and was compensating by trying to find value in very bad relationships. It was unhealthy and toxic to me. I can't explain it all to you or the process of healing I needed to go through to be freed of the restraints, oppression, and hurts that I had suffered.
I have found my bliss and I'm confident that I am typed properly, whether you agree or not.
Articles - The Freudian Theory of Enneagram
 

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My qualm with your original post was about 7's being selfish, but since you explained how you personally view selfishness as a positive thing, I was able to see what you mean by your post.
I should clarify that their are bad forms of selfishness. overall, I separate selfishness into two categories
1) disregard for others. not respecting other people's rights and treating them without dignity
2) self focused. your primary is focus is getting more or yourself, getting ahead in life and focusing primarily on your own needs and desires.

the latter is the good kind, and the kind 7s generally display. in fact, anyone who does not have this type of selfishness is going to have difficulty getting ahead in life and will likely experience much more stress than someone who does.
the former is definitely NOT a good kind (probably more likely found in unhealthy 8s and unhealthy 1s)
 

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I should clarify that their are bad forms of selfishness. overall, I separate selfishness into two categories
1) disregard for others. not respecting other people's rights and treating them without dignity
2) self focused. your primary is focus is getting more or yourself, getting ahead in life and focusing primarily on your own needs and desires.

the latter is the good kind, and the kind 7s generally display. in fact, anyone who does not have this type of selfishness is going to have difficulty getting ahead in life and will likely experience much more stress than someone who does.
the former is definitely NOT a good kind (probably more likely found in unhealthy 8s and unhealthy 1s)
It makes sense but the word "selfish" has a negative connotation to it and people will often attribute it to the former. The latter description you gave has many positive synonyms so your decision to use the word "selfish" is, again why I had a problem with what you said.
 

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Ok, thanks for sharing the article about how the Enneagram relates to superego. Very helpful to know what you're saying. :)
I am not a superego. Definitely not. I could care less about being "corrupt or defective." Truth be told, to the core, I don't believe I am.

My basic fear is deprivation and pain. I accommodated people because they were abusive and I wanted to avoid pain. I was insecure in those relationships, not in myself or my own choices. I did not want to be deprived of primary relationships and that was used as a threat over me. Simple as that.

I don't want to miss out on ANYTHING...I truly want it all! And I don't want to be hurt. Period.
 

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Ok, thanks for sharing the article about how the Enneagram relates to superego. Very helpful to know what you're saying. :)
I am not a superego. Definitely not. I could care less about being "corrupt or defective." Truth be told, to the core, I don't believe I am.
My basic fear is deprivation and pain. I accommodated people because they were abusive and I wanted to avoid pain. I was insecure in those relationships, not in myself or my own choices. I did not want to be deprived of primary relationships and that was used as a threat over me. Simple as that.
I don't want to miss out on ANYTHING...I truly want it all! And I don't want to be hurt. Period.
interesting, so, basically, you were compliant in order to avoid pain, but then this tendency became internalized and you developed a sort of Stockholm Syndrome-esque response which you since gotten over. I see, that could make you seem a lot like a superego type. still, you can't have 2w1 and 4w3 in your tritype. I think your third fix is 1.
 
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still, you can't have 2w1 and 4w3 in your tritype. I think your third fix is 1.
Oh, please tell me more, oh Guru of the Enneagram.
I wanted to find my tritype and took the top three scores (7, then 2, then 4) on the quiz and read about them and their wings.
They seemed the most like me. Do I have two in the same triad? Is that a no-no? I am a quick learner if you're willing to school me. ;)


type
score
type behavior motivation
7
26
I must be fun and entertained to survive.
2
23
I must be helpful and caring to survive.
4
22
I must be unique/different to survive.
3
21
I must be impressive and attractive to survive.
8
20
I must be strong and in control to survive.
 

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reading through it a second time, the fact that you have disposable income is very relevant. 7s tend to be quite generous when they have plenty of extra income (but not when they don't) and this can look very 2-ish. .
Yes this! I can be quite generous with some tight friends, to the point where they're almost suspicious of me. I'm not terribly wealthy but compared to some mates I can get by a lot more easily so I try to share a bit -- to me as a 7 I think of them being in discomfort and since I like avoiding anything that isn't pleasurable I try to extend the feeling to my friends. It's not that I NEED to help them, my generosity is a way of letting these select few into my personal Seven Pleasure Dome. Also that I think money isn't THAT important (aka. it's not a status symbol for me; I'm not in financial trouble and can afford to help) so I can stand to part with it for the right people. It bothers me when my friends are unhappy about small things like money matters because it keeps us from properly having fun so I don't mind paying for them in cases like this.

But yeah I don't overextend myself in trying to make people's lives easier if it makes my life more difficult, like how Twos might be more wont to do. At the end of the day I'm still on the top of my priorities.
 
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