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I am a 2 (An ENFP? A 2? Why I never. /sarcasm) with a 3 wing, and quite new to this Enneagram business.

Though I can agree with a good chunk of the 2w3 description, my general want to give to people is truly out of wishes for them to be happy. It's always good to be thought of as kind, but it's even better to see someone else smile.
Also, there's this backlash against 2w3's and their abilities to be in a relationship of any sort. What's with that? Everyone's prone to being unhealthy from time to time, but I've never gone in to "stalker/obsession" mode. That just sounds awful and ruins everything for anyone involved. If I feel any type of bitterness towards anyone, I just tell them for the benefit of both of us. No one deserves to be secretly loathed, and if something isn't working out, why not just end it? Everyone deserves to be happy, and an unhealthy relationship is no way to do that.

Sorry for this rant, I'm just so massively confused. It just seems like we're kind of the villains of the Enneagram.
 

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Do you doubt yourself though? Sometimes, you have contradictions - if I'm so 'selfless', than why don't I just give myself all away. Thus I'm somehow 'selfish' - and being known as selfish is like a goddamn time bomb for ENFP. A 'bad' comment from anyone will set it off.

Anyways, I'm an ENFP 2w3 as well. Damnit :crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Do you doubt yourself though? Sometimes, you have contradictions - if I'm so 'selfless', than why don't I just give myself all away. Thus I'm somehow 'selfish' - and being known as selfish is like a goddamn time bomb for ENFP. A 'bad' comment from anyone will set it off.

Anyways, I'm an ENFP 2w3 as well. Damnit :crazy:
I think all ENFPs have a part of them that totally doubts themselves, therefore we try to give more. Sadly, once you given almost all of yourself away, you tend to go "Hey wait a sec. I think I need to take a little me time." and you are then called selfish. This in turn sets off a huge anxiety attack in the ENFP because they don't feel like they're good enough, thus they give themselves to everyone else, and begin to breakdown.

It's a vicious cycle.
 

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I think all ENFPs have a part of them that totally doubts themselves, therefore we try to give more. Sadly, once you given almost all of yourself away, you tend to go "Hey wait a sec. I think I need to take a little me time." and you are then called selfish. This in turn sets off a huge anxiety attack in the ENFP because they don't feel like they're good enough, thus they give themselves to everyone else, and begin to breakdown.

It's a vicious cycle.
Haha, you described it more eloquently!

Sucks, huh? When you feel that you have to heal everyone around you, and you don't feel worthy of yourself. But usually, with self confidence/love, that will always be overcome. I try to love myself the best way I can. (and I think you should too :happy: Though I'm pretty sure you are anyways)

And yes, usually when I do good things, it comes from my heart. Though at other times I doubt, even though I KNOW I didn't do it for selfish reasons, whether or not I'm actually acting with strings attached - at least subconsciously.

I think we're the supposed 'villains' of the ennegram because we are so theoretically 'nice' - and society these days always portray to us that people are corrupt/selfish - that there is no true good for the world, and that there is no real 'hope' for anyone. And people are scared if someone does good things, thinking whether or not they have an ulterior motive (Eg, sex, money, etc.)

Sigh, don't you just wish that all people would just give 1 dollar to the person next to them? I hope they would just smile more - stop being so depressed and all. Then I realize I'm being a hypocrite. *facepalm*

Anyways, you don't happen to have been endlessly criticized as a kid? (Just curious)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Depends on what you mean by criticized.

Yeah. I genuinely care about people, and want to really make them happy, so I'm no longer surrounded by unhappy people, so we can all be happy together, which I guess in itself is an ulterior motive, but not a bad one. I just don't like seeing people unhappy. It causes me to feel really troubled and unhappy.

Funnily enough, I totally gave a random woman two bucks yesterday, because she was short a couple bucks in the grocery line. :laughing: And I honestly wasn't trying to move it along any faster, I just wanted to help.

As for that loving myself thing, I definitely have gotten better at that in recent time. I went through a lot of stuff in my early life, that caused me to do nothing but hate myself. One day I had an epiphany about how the was really counterproductive, and caused me to actually bring down the people around me, which is the opposite of what I wanted. I've come to believe that if you're not happy, you really can't make those around you happy. We all have to take a moment and let ourselves take a breather before we continue to lend a helping hand.

I think the enneagram stuff may be based on the idea that no matter which type you are, these are your flaws and that's what drives you. There doesn't seem to be much room for any goodness behind the helping hand of twos, just negative ulterior motives, which completely goes against the MBTI idea that ENFPs are just out there to truly want to help people and make the best of the world. Enneagram is the dark side of MBTI. :laughing:
 

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Lol, I think Enneagram 8s are more known for being the villains of the enneagram. I know a 2w3, who I'm kind of debating is either an ISFP or ENFP, and although I am aware of his type 2-ness, I quite enjoy it. :O I haven't read enough about e2, but every enneagram type has its unhealthy aspects. I know an INFJ e2, and she has this strange psychic ability to have the right words all the time for me. My new 2w3 friend is also really good at offering advice and motivating me to face the challenges I have. I haven't thought too deeply about it, but I consider them awesome people to have as life-long friends. And I definitely make it a point to not rely on them. Neither are stalkerish AT ALL, they would rather learn about someone while experiencing them in person, face to face. I don't know where that stalker notion came from.
 
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There is nothing wrong with any of the types. The problem lies in people who have had negative experiences and 'typed' the person, then gone on to make sweeping generalizations about that person's type. 'All 2's are unhealthy/stalker/secretly selfish' etc. There were a couple of those threads on here a while back and it threw me for a loop, too, until I realized it was the same people/person over and over again and the problem was with them, not Type 2's.

I am an ENFP 2w3. I have discovered I have a tendency towards co-dependency, if I'm not careful or if I neglect myself. My nature to love and help can morph into doing too much for people, which can be perceived on the other end as doing things TO people, I think. My motivations, at first glance, are to help and because I care, but again, if I'm not in the right place, it can become about control. Doing things because you want what's best for someone relies on the assumption that YOU know what is best for someone else, and that is pretty arrogant. I have to self check for this a lot.

Also, if I neglect taking care of myself, my giving can come with an expected reciprocity. I have only recently learned that there are other ways people can care and show love and that just because it's not shown the way I would choose to show it does not mean it isn't there and the value of it is no less.

I wonder....all these ENFP 2 w 3's. If we all met, would we be like peas in a pod or would we drive each other nuts?
 

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Doing things because you want what's best for someone relies on the assumption that YOU know what is best for someone else, and that is pretty arrogant. I have to self check for this a lot.
I guess so.

Unless ofcause if they ask you for help, which is the only time i am willing to do it. Or maybe when they clearly need help and they are not sure how to get out of their troubles. As for the rest i try and see what nature does for them :proud:



I wonder....all these ENFP 2 w 3's. If we all met, would we be like peas in a pod or would we drive each other nuts?
Lets hope peas in a pod although you do have some bad peas sometimes :tongue:
 

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ESTP female 2w3. 9w1, 3w2

Helping is quite rewarding; one of the finer things in life.

I like being admired for being helpful/leader/kind. I have natural impulses to "rescue" people, very quick appropriate response to situations. helping someone falling, being bullied, I encouraging when i see someone needs it. On the other hand, i can be brutally honest and i unintionaly hurt people (no regret; I'm helpful being honest.)

I don't care about how people view my lifestyle. As long as i am able to be highly successful (for myself) and independent and content in what i do, I'm happy.

I am emotional(softi) though i don't show it only to important people. If i cry (rarely) i dislike it, but just let it out.

Adrenaline/speed is my freedom. Teasing is basically me say i (love/like) you.

XXTX 2 are AWESOME
 

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Do you doubt yourself though? Sometimes, you have contradictions - if I'm so 'selfless', than why don't I just give myself all away. Thus I'm somehow 'selfish' - and being known as selfish is like a goddamn time bomb for ENFP. A 'bad' comment from anyone will set it off.

Anyways, I'm an ENFP 2w3 as well. Damnit
I think all ENFPs have a part of them that totally doubts themselves, therefore we try to give more. Sadly, once you given almost all of yourself away, you tend to go "Hey wait a sec. I think I need to take a little me time." and you are then called selfish. This in turn sets off a huge anxiety attack in the ENFP because they don't feel like they're good enough, thus they give themselves to everyone else, and begin to breakdown.

It's a vicious cycle.
It took me until almost 50 to figure this out. It's my nature to go above and beyond in the beginning but it's unsustainable and when I slide back into what would be considered normal for other people then I am considered " selfish" or " not up to standards ". This has been a major issue in both romantic relationships and professional settings. Ironically, the more I want to "people please" the worse the backlash!
It's sucky but I am comforted to know I am now alone.
 

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Hmmm, ISFP 2w3 here offering her two cents. Well, we say that we give because we're kind and selfless and want to see a smile on someone's face. But there are times when I have really questioned myself. Am I actually putting myself on a pedestal here? Am I really expecting nothing in return? Because I do, oftentimes. I want a grateful smile or a gushy thanks. Or a praise from the person I helped saying, "I don't meet people like you very often." And when I don't get those, I do feel disappointed. But I've reached a stage in my life where if I give, I give without truly expecting anything. Nothing. The disappointment is still there but on a lesser scale.

I feel that 2w3s are truly kind and want to help people. But we may also be misled into thinking that we are always, always "kind and selfless people", which isn't true. We cannot and should not give all the time; only when we can and are able to. As for those calling us selfish, yes, we are. I am selfish for putting myself first and that's OKAY. It's not wrong to be selfish. It's not wrong to admit that I'm selfish. It's not wrong to admit that I'm not this kind person 100% of the time. Because if you don't care for yourself enough, how are you going to have enough to give to others?

2s make the world a better place and that's good enough. :)
 
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