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These two types just don't get along. The few times I've seen them work together have ended up in rivalry.

I'm wondering whether any 3s here have had conflicts with 8s, and if so, what exactly has triggered them? How to resolve them? How can both parties avoid stepping on each other's toes? Why do you guys turn into rivals so readily?

I know both 3 and 8 are assertive types, but so are 5s and 1s and 7s and cp6s, yet the 3-8 run-ons seems to be the most ripe for conflict in entire enneagram.
 

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Oh wow, I was just about to make a thread asking how to get along with 8s... I just had a little clash with my roomie, who is an 8 :/

And I just erased a whole paragraph of irrelevant venting... Anyway, I think it's because 8s value their personal comfort a lot, and aren't afraid to be combative to get that. 3s want to get things done, but they want it done fast and efficiently, so they want to keep drama down to a minimum. When 8s get argumentative, it gets in the way, blowing what seems like trivial issues to 3s out of proportion. For example, when I request to my roomie to do this one little thing (I won't mention it - paranoia in case she ever opens this website. It's something trivial along the lines of turning off the lights when you're not in the room etc.) she simply doesn't want to do it (not peacefully anyway). I think it may be because she feels as though she's being "told-off" even when I'm trying so hard to be diplomatic. It's like I have to act all meek and apologetic if I have to ask for something to not hit a nerve. It's tiring. I also don't like the way she words her requests to me sometimes. She doesn't ask, she demands. I'm sorry if I annoyed any 8s reading this. I don't mean to generalise, I'm writing about a specific person here. I suppose she's a developing 8 who's not fully mature yet.

I also think 8s generally don't like 3s' vibes. I want to be diplomatic, she wants to get straight to the point. But yet she doesn't want me to seem as though I'm bossing her around. (She perceives it that way, I think, even though I don't mean it like that) So what do I do? -.-

To be fair, we do get along most of the time. It's just when it comes to little disagreements about our room preferences - it spirals way out of proportion, and it has never happened with any of my other roommates before. And I have gotten along with more mature 8s in the past. Haven't met too many of them, so I can't really tell if they will get on my nerves. I'm not one to make enemies, anyway. As an ENFP I can't stand conflict... I couldn't sleep until 3am last night because I was feeling so bad about the whole argument :( Thank goodness it was okay today.

EDIT: Realised I haven't answered your question about resolving the conflict. As a 3, I think that it's better to let the 8s lead the conversation when talking to them. And as for requesting things to be done, in future I'm thinking of saying things directly and agreeably with a smile so that my roomie doesn't feel cornered and told-off.
 

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I've had a lot of difficulty with 3s. Personally, I think the conflict for me comes from one root - the Type 3's need for validation. I'm not trying to generalize 3s, nor place the blame on 3s rather than 8s, but I am explaining from my perspective.

In my 8-3 interactions, the biggest problem I have always had is never feeling safe around them. The closer they move towards to me, the more I want to control them so I can keep a safe distance. But I have a very hard time determining what their true motivations and feelings are as compared to any other type, whose are generally pretty cut-clear to me. I've had 3s get close to me, telling me that they care about me and such, and they are very good at making me believe this; but I detect a ton of inconsistencies, because of the need for validation. For example, one 3 would tell me I was her best friend, talk about how close we were, and she actually made me feel special. But it took me until a lot later to see that she would just call everyone was her best friend and she would comment about how close she was with so-and-so, and thereafter I realized that I was just another person validating her self-worth.

I need truth, honesty, and integrity, and if you are going to warp the truth for as stupid a reason as petty validation, we are going to have problems. The compromise I suggest here is to be truthful and authentic, and I'll give you respect and validation for that. The problem with this compromise is that having only one person to validate the 3 is just 'not enough,' as it has seemed.

I think another place of friction in the 3-8 pairing is the 8's need for control. Both 3s and 8s have a natural gravitas, but they attract weight from different sources. 8s attract people who can take part in the 8's power, while 3s attract people who love 3s for what they project. I believe this applies mainly to the so-8s (mostly speaking for myself here), but I hate losing control with or over a social group. The 3 can leech my control over the group by controlling through manipulation rather through force. It creates a source of anger for me - they can control a group, but it's just by making people like you rather than personal merit.

Honestly, that's just unfair, and I have had my credit undermined by 3s who have more simply because they're more well-liked. It drives me crazy. It becomes a battle for power, but not the same one we're looking for individually. Think of the power as a regular Venn Diagram - 3 and 8 have their own spheres of control, for different topics, but the overlap in the middle is what they battle over. But they're so different that it's very difficult to find a compromising ground to work with. 3 says, "I want you to like me," while 8 says, "I want to feel safe around you." 3 becomes intrusive as he desires to win the approval of the 8, which triggers defensive reactions from 8. They're pushing against each other but they don't understand why.

Here's a metaphor for the last sentence: The 3 walks up to the 8 for a hug. The 8 hasn't decided yet, though, if he wants a hug yet or not from this stranger. So the 8 extends a hand out saying, "woah, wait a second here." But if the 3 keeps moving for the hug, the 8 will end up holding the head of the 3 with an extended arm, while the 3 is pushing against the 8's body for the hug. They don't get away from each other, but they're still pushing against each other and they're very well aware of it. However, neither is generally willing to lay down his hands. If the 3 lays down his hands, he does not get the hug he desires, and may harbor resentment for it. If the 8 lays down his hands, he risks being crushed by the 3's hug, and if he desires to end the hug or escape from it, he may have to thrash around to get out.

I regress back to the concept of 'truth,' as I think it is the main source of conflict. I draw the line very darkly when it comes to violation of integrity. 3 will receive negative or no affirmation from me if they are not being authentic or if I feel they are not being authentic. 3 will continue to push for affirmation, sometimes without noting my boundaries. When the 3 gets rejected in favor of my boundaries, they harbor resentment for me - therefore I have an unnecessary enemy who I have to be even more careful around.

Having even said all this about 3s, my best friend is actually a 3w2 sx/so. It angered me a lot in high school how he was so popular and people would rather gravitate toward him. However, I think the compromise comes when the both sides drop their guard - that is, the 8 becomes vulnerable, while the 3 becomes authentic (masks acting as a guard). In order to achieve this, from my perspective, the 3 needs to realize that he can remain authentic and receive the validation of worth (and will get it from me if so), so the 8 can let his guard down and feel safe. If they're not willing to or don't realize it, just don't step in my 'territory,' whether that be personal boundaries or 'leeching' my followers so you can gain your own (that will righteously piss me off).

In my experience, I think this couple actually has a huge amount of potential for mutual growth - it can just be a really rocky road to get to that point, if it ever gets there at all.
 

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My brother is a very stereotypical / archetypical INTJ 8 ... and the only thing I'm going to say about that relationship is that at its worst, he ended up in the hospital needing stitches above his right eye.

It was full of competition [both healthy and unhealthy] where I took it upon myself to beat him for my mother's affection. He always had it by virtue of being the elder son .. he was smart, intelligent, mensa member --- so I really had to work extremely hard to get the same kind of admiration he had so naturally from my parents, especially mom --- and it seemed like he didn't even want it !! That irked me so much.

At my worst, I just couldn't stand it ... and I spent countless hours cooking up ways to become better than him at other things to get my validation.

Our unhealthy competition finally ended after my divorce when I completely broke down and apologized to him [in tears] for how I had competed with him [negatively] all my life. But he is just so damn naturally good --- and I had to work so hard to be as good. I did find things to become better at than him over the years ... but my inherent instinct is to compete with him - while he's stead and steadfast in his achievements. Mine have been very sporadic but full of loss and failure as well which tarnish their worth.
 

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My brother is a very stereotypical / archetypical INTJ 8 ... and the only thing I'm going to say about that relationship is that at its worst, he ended up in the hospital needing stitches above his right eye.

It was full of competition [both healthy and unhealthy] where I took it upon myself to beat him for my mother's affection. He always had it by virtue of being the elder son .. he was smart, intelligent, mensa member --- so I really had to work extremely hard to get the same kind of admiration he had so naturally from my parents, especially mom --- and it seemed like he didn't even want it !! That irked me so much.

At my worst, I just couldn't stand it ... and I spent countless hours cooking up ways to become better than him at other things to get my validation.

Our unhealthy competition finally ended after my divorce when I completely broke down and apologized to him [in tears] for how I had competed with him [negatively] all my life. But he is just so damn naturally good --- and I had to work so hard to be as good. I did find things to become better at than him over the years ... but my inherent instinct is to compete with him - while he's stead and steadfast in his achievements. Mine have been very sporadic but full of loss and failure as well which tarnish their worth.
if your brother is typed correctly, he probably didn't care much about your mother's approval in the first place. core 8s (and usually 7s and 5s) don't usually tend to care much about their parent's approval as children. that's more of a superego/heart center thing (albeit, there are exceptions)
 

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Obviously being an ENTJ I am kind of surrounded by 8's on the forum, but I have not had any trouble getting along with any of them... They are all pretty good people that are just driven and goal oriented. I'm not saying that I would get along with all of them all the time, I'm sure there are some of every ennea type I would clash with.
 

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I've been dating an 8 for about a year now, and no fighting yet. I can tell that he has more definite 'lines' than me about people (most people do, apparently, I suspect they find it hard to believe/ understand that I can stay in contact with people and stay detached), and I try not to cross them.

The problem with this compromise is that having only one person to validate the 3 is just 'not enough,' as it has seemed.
This is a problem, yes. For me the audience is always a crowd.
 

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*scratches head*

I don't relate with anything you guys are talking about.
 

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My best friend is an 8w7 and we don't really have much conflict. He's a pretty emotionally-expressive person and always tells someone if he cares about them, or if he appreciates them, so I'm always validated by him. When we became friends, I learned quickly that he appreciates honesty and someone to listen to him, so that's what I am for him. I'm not being dishonest by acting that way for him - because I am honest and a good listener - but he has mentioned to me that he gets frustrated when we're in a group of people because he can see me "changing" to suit each person in the group to attract the most attention. It almost becomes a battle between the two of us; he wanting to control the group for control, while I want to control it to be more liked.

As for your questions:

I'm wondering whether any 3s here have had conflicts with 8s, and if so, what exactly has triggered them?
Any conflicts we've had were triggered by him, I would say. He always tells me if someone says anything negative about me which makes me unhappy because I don't want to know something like that. He thinks that someone should always be told if someone is gossiping, but I don't want to know because then I'm going to harp on what they said and who else could be saying it and why they would say that and I thought we were friends blah blah blah. But I wouldn't start anything over it because I don't want him to think it bothers me.

TLDR: They're triggered by an 8's need to be honest about things when I would rather not know.

How to resolve them? How can both parties avoid stepping on each other's toes? Why do you guys turn into rivals so readily?
I guess I've never really had the need to resolve our conflicts because I don't want to stir the pot. I really think the burden is on the 3 to try and be honest around the 8. I don't have any rivalries with any 8's so I can't answer that.
 

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I'm wondering whether any 3s here have had conflicts with 8s, and if so, what exactly has triggered them? How to resolve them? How can both parties avoid stepping on each other's toes? Why do you guys turn into rivals so readily?

I know both 3 and 8 are assertive types, but so are 5s and 1s and 7s and cp6s, yet the 3-8 run-ons seems to be the most ripe for conflict in entire enneagram.
Yes. What triggers them for me is always a struggle for power. Type 8 wants to be in control for type 8 reasons. I want to be in control for both the self-image (I can't stand being passive) and so I can ensure success in the way I want it for whatever it is we're struggling for power over.

I think this happens more so between type 3s and 8s because the other types (5, 1, 7) I think are less concerned with power.

How to resolve? Well I think if the two don't have similar goals / like-minded thinking, it's unstoppable force meets immovable object.
 

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As long as we work for the same things, I'm good. :)
 

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(I'm pretty sure I'm a type 8)
I'm good friends with a type 3 and I think the secret is that we try to avoid competing with each other. If she's very proud of a skill that she has, I won't try to upstage her. It's mostly about respect: if one party doesn't respect the other than it can quickly turn into a battle of "anything-you-can-do-I-can-do-better"
 

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Hmm...I get mistaked for a 8w7 a lot, and while I admire 8s, there something about them that irks me. I guess a lot of them just aren't particularly nuanced? I value social conventions and propriety a lot; I make it my point to always be polite, and to never 'lose my cool', and 8s don't seem to really care about any of that.
 

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These two types just don't get along. The few times I've seen them work together have ended up in rivalry.
I'm wondering whether any 3s here have had conflicts with 8s, and if so, what exactly has triggered them? How to resolve them? How can both parties avoid stepping on each other's toes? Why do you guys turn into rivals so readily?
I know both 3 and 8 are assertive types, but so are 5s and 1s and 7s and cp6s, yet the 3-8 run-ons seems to be the most ripe for conflict in entire enneagram.
a few things
1) 5s are not assertive unless they are REALLY integrated in fact, they're rather cowardly/avoidant most of the time (though, to be fair, they can become some of the most powerful people in the world when they are. 5's competence + 8's confidence, will power and ability to take fast action =....whoa! o_O)
2) 1s and 7s don't get into these kinds of rivalries much because they aren't as competitive (except Sp 7w8s. I'm sure @Cosmic Orgasm can vouch for that). 8's and 3's on the other hand are extremely competitive.
3) some types I would add to the list of getting in spats with 3s and 8s are Social 2, Self Preservation 7 and cp6 (they're competitive as well).
 
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a few things
1) 5s are not assertive unless they are REALLY integrated in fact, they're rather cowardly/avoidant most of the time (though, to be fair, they can become some of the most powerful people in the world when they are. 5's competence + 8's confidence, will power and ability to take fast action =....whoa! o_O)
2) 1s and 7s don't get into these kinds of rivalries much because they aren't as competitive (except Sp 7w8s. I'm sure @Cosmic Orgasm can vouch for that). 8's and 3's on the other hand are extremely competitive.
3) some types I would add to the list of getting in spats with 3s and 8s are Social 2, Self Preservation 7 and cp6 (they're competitive as well).
1s can be competitive as hell (competency triad, attentional pattern of comparing themselves to others), and they can also be very obstinate. 1s and 8s can and do clash, and it can potentially be even more incendiary than a 3-8 competition.

Yes, I'd say that SP 7w8s especially, and CP 6 can also have some serious competitive drive, and if the 8 or the other types step on each other's toes, expect fireworks.
 

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Hmm...I get mistaked for a 8w7 a lot, and while I admire 8s, there something about them that irks me. I guess a lot of them just aren't particularly nuanced? I value social conventions and propriety a lot
LOL yeah. if you're looking for propriety, 8s aren't the place to look :laughing:

I make it my point to always be polite, and to never 'lose my cool', and 8s don't seem to really care about any of that.
Self Preservation 8s typically value this. they would see losing their cool as weak/displaying poor self control (of course, Sp 8 is the
 

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One relationship I can think of where an 8 and 3 got along great was when they didn't see each other as competition, but rather as an ally, and a teacher as well as a friend. Instead of turning everything into a giant pissing contest, they reveled in each others victories and successes and strategiezed how to implement what the other did right in their own fashion. But both also had the others type as a fix as well.

When I think about the 8 I know, the relationship is similar to the one described above, although he does not have a 3 fix.
 
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