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Discussion Starter #1
I was having a very interesting discussion about this with @Etherea --- and I wanted to bring it to the forum

What does "sucking up" mean to you?

Based on your definition of it -- have you ever willingly indulged in sucking up to get ahead?

Given the opportunity where it won't reflect poorly on you in any way, would you?

How far are you willing to go for your superiors for your professional success?

---

Ok .. let's change the word from "sucking up" to doing small things for success like [answer with a yes or no if you like]:

- Adding and communicating with bosses on FB and wishing them on special occasions
- Driving to their house with a small birthday gift
- Taking on extra work like volunteering for additional projects
- Inviting them out to expensive lunches
- Visit their office every morning just to say "Hi" and make up stuff to talk about along the way.
- Be ever-present when the boss is around
- Look busy do nothing
- Exaggerate in verbal / written progress reports to make it sound like you had to go an extra mile
 

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I'm not a type three although those words are familiar to me. I think as an ENFP i call it charming. Not sure if it means the same thing, my husband would say so ;) I wouldn't charm or suck up to my superiors, not after i got the job ;D perhaps before being interviewed. I would be willing to say whatever i needed to in order to get the job i wanted. I did exactly that and will never regret it. So yeah, charming , sucking up, either or, it works ;)
 

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Nah, I'm not one for sucking up.

From that list, the only things I'd do/have done are;

Taking on extra work or volunteering for projects. Just because I like challenge, and I am there to work, not dick around. I rarely take breaks as well.

Being ever rpesent when the boss is around. You can't advance if you aren't seen. You have to let them know who the top dog is.
 

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Not a 3, but I'll answer anyway. :)

- Adding and communicating with bosses on FB and wishing them on special occasions

Nope. Don't do this at all. None of my coworkers are on my fb, let alone my bosses. Luckily my boss dislikes fb and has recently deleted his profile.

- Driving to their house with a small birthday gift

No, I wouldn't do that. I don't get them gifts at all. I write a sweet message on the company card ;)

- Taking on extra work like volunteering for additional projects

For sure. I've even made up projects to show that I'm interested in benefiting the company. Two years ago when I was in reception I did some quotes on installing a magnetic lock system on the front door so the receptionist just has to hit a button to let people in. He's finally implementing it as well :D

- Inviting them out to expensive lunches

Only if he's paying ;) :p

- Visit their office every morning just to say "Hi" and make up stuff to talk about along the way.

Nope. I stay the hell out of his office. I talk to him while he's walking around and always at least listen intently while he's talking.

- Be ever-present when the boss is around

Hehe. Almost always :)

- Look busy do nothing

Hahah. Yeah. Last week I was standing doing nothing and my boss came through and said "that girl is always moving." :p

- Exaggerate in verbal / written progress reports to make it sound like you had to go an extra mile

As much as possible
 

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I don't really consider it sucking up...I like to call it "diplomatic self-advancement."

- Adding and communicating with bosses on FB and wishing them on special occasions - Yes

- Driving to their house with a small birthday gift - I would never do this. Maybe bring them a nice card to work or something though

- Taking on extra work like volunteering for additional projects - I do this all the time.

- Inviting them out to expensive lunches - Hell no.

- Visit their office every morning just to say "Hi" and make up stuff to talk about along the way. I think this is just common courtesy.

- Be ever-present when the boss is around - I do my best to be.

- Look busy do nothing - I look busy and usually actually am busy.

- Exaggerate in verbal / written progress reports to make it sound like you had to go an extra mile. - Haha, yes!
 

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I've seen social 3s (so/sx) try to suck up to those who they see as authority and just completely re-mold their personality in attempts to play up to whatever role or image that this authority thought of as successful. It was really fake, but surprisingly those in authority didn't see it until the social 3 got disenchanted with them and tricked them right under their noses before departing elsewhere. It was amusing and sad to watch at the same time. I have also seen phobic 6s, sp and so-firsts, do some major sucking up. Unlike 3s they often keep to whichever figure(s) they've attached themselves to for a long while, even at their own expense.

Sexual 3s, from what I've seen, on the contrary aim to impress and draw attention to themselves, rather than to suck up to their superiors. Become like a Super Star at work or within whatever social group that they are part of and develop whatever skills necessary to keep this title. I like their style much more since it doesn't seem as fake at a first glance.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I've seen social 3s (so/sx) try to suck up to those who they see as authority and just completely re-mold their personality in attempts to play up to whatever role or image that this authority thought of as successful. It was really fake, but surprisingly those in authority didn't see it until the social 3 got disenchanted with them and tricked them right under their noses before departing elsewhere. It was amusing and sad to watch at the same time. I have also seen phobic 6s, sp and so-firsts, do some major sucking up. Unlike 3s they often keep to whichever figure(s) they've attached themselves to for a long while, even at their own expense.

Sexual 3s, from what I've seen, on the contrary aim to impress and draw attention to themselves, rather than to suck up to their superiors. Become like a Super Star at work or within whatever social group that they are part of and develop whatever skills necessary to keep this title. I like their style much more since it doesn't seem as fake at a first glance.
Interesting --- my personal views on sucking up are very harsh --- perhaps it has a lot to do with my dad's ability to be able to find his success without ever sucking up to anyone in any way, so I kinda moulded myself in his image more.

I prefer to let my work speak for itself and if it isn't noticed, I go out of my way to make sure that it is through continuous self-improvement. I get better and better and increase my focus on the job.

I also seem able to create a circle of admirers [even though I don't do so willingly, nor do I care about having one] who push for my success more than I need to more often than not. Meaning, I usually have a healthy number of subordinates/colleagues who speak highly of my work ethic and I prefer to find my success that way.
 

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What does "sucking up" mean to you?

It means sucking as a person. It means lowering yourself to a disgusting level of fakeness and manipulation to get what you apparently cannot get by your skills and strategies alone(because why would you even resort to that kind of thing if you could make it work by your capacities only?). It means surrendering yourself to shallowness. It means the death of value systems(well, for me, it is). It means declaring yourself as "desperate" to the world. It means loosing your dignity. It means that you are placing yourself below another, declaring yourself inferior to the world, and most importantly, declaring yourself inferior to yourself. It means you are incompetent, and admitting your incompetence to the world. It means giving up on authenticity, giving up on your competence...giving up on yourself. It's...It's...It's...

Based on your definition of it -- have you ever willingly indulged in sucking up to get ahead?

No. I got ahead by pure skills and determination, and I will continue to do so until I get exactly what I want. Sucking up is an admission that someone else's skills are noteworthy. While it may certainly be the case, I have extreme, nearly impossible standards of competence, and I will not waste my...saliva to congratulate someone/manipulate in order to receive help from someone who will probably not be worthy(By my standards, only 15-or-so people in the whole world are truly competent---I do not even meet my standards,although I will one day--). Giving recognition to someone in your field means you're in a position to recognize instead of being recognized like you should if you really want to be THE "one of a kind". It signifies your own failure unless you turn that around. I will not, of course, ignore real competence (read:being exceptional) when I see it, but I usually don't, and I would not under any circumstances be someone who needs help to get ahead. I want to be the one who got ahead & top of the world by competence, not by receiving assistance from the old winner as it would make me "the second" in my eyes. I also don't believe I will ever need assistance from anyone to create and walk in my path. Giving recognition to suck up would make me feel as if I am lowering my standards too, which is a no-no. I am attached my elitist standards, thanks.

Given the opportunity where it won't reflect poorly on you in any way, would you?

It would always reflect poorly on me in my eyes, so no.

How far are you willing to go for your superiors for your professional success?

I am not attached to any systems, institutions/work places, Bosses or co-workers, so I would do the bare minimum. I would likely not waste my time on someone else's career. I will not work with anyone for my success. I dislike even having to work in some job (and I detest working WITH anyone) when I could take that time to refine and refine my skills instead. Shame I need the money... It's extremly arrogant of me, but I believe "my way" is "the only way" that works. I plan on being freelance at some point anyway for 1)the glory and 2)the isolation ...I see people as obstacles first, tools second.

I suspect most 3s will not relate to my answers as they're rather rare/extreme for a 3.
 

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I'm pretty sure I have a 3 somewhere in the soup so here goes:

- Adding and communicating with bosses on FB and wishing them on special occasions

OH hell no. I have crazy friends who posts crazy things.

- Driving to their house with a small birthday gift.

Nope. Lol, great way to start office rumors though.

- Taking on extra work like volunteering for additional projects.

Nope. I already take up extra work to ensure projects are completed on time/ on budget. I don't need to take on someone else's load unless extra work = extra pay.

- Inviting them out to expensive lunches.

Nope.

- Visit their office every morning just to say "Hi" and make up stuff to talk about along the way.

The boss was a very jolly guy. He rather preferred it if his shadow (aka me at the time) said Hi wassup! I'd always come in with my starbucks and he'd tease me asking, "Where's mine? When are you going to start buying me those money sucker drinks?" lol I remember saying, "When you raise my salary." Meh, I can match a person's energy level. Skip to their beat or let them skip to mine. It makes it easy to be buddy-buddy with the higher ups. /tanget

- Be ever-present when the boss is around

No. He knew my extension and where he sat me when he hired me.

- Look busy do nothing

Unfortunately, yes. Waiting on correspondence is sometimes ridiculous.

- Exaggerate in verbal / written progress reports to make it sound like you had to go an extra mile.

Sure. Who doesn't do this? O_O
 

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Sucking up to me means a falsification or an exaggeration used for motives other than simple human interactions, perhaps self serving or attention seeking.

I did as a child. I was a weird kid and everyone including myself knew it. Over compensated by trying to align myself with teachers, which never really worked out for me. Ironically I only became teacher's pet in my final years of college, at which point these practices have been long abandoned.

I don't actively do it now, but I've noticed I've come off that way at times. I don't care to seem disingenuous so this is a difficult realization for me.

I let my work speak for itself. I am more of the mindset of bartering: I will do this but I need you to do this. Stroking someone's ego would make me feel a little sick inside I think. I'm typically pretty charming once a person gets to know me too so I've never had to go out of my way.



I always have trouble describing my work experience because I'm currently in an industry I have no passion or knowledge on. The little upward mobility I did have I achieved only to have the department closed down six months later so I think my answers to these things are a little biased. In short: my job has never been worth my dignity. But a better career in an industry that I care about... hm I might fight more dirty in that situation.
 

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I like that a lot ! :)
I figured you would, haha :p.

I've seen social 3s (so/sx) try to suck up to those who they see as authority and just completely re-mold their personality in attempts to play up to whatever role or image that this authority thought of as successful. It was really fake, but surprisingly those in authority didn't see it until the social 3 got disenchanted with them and tricked them right under their noses before departing elsewhere. It was amusing and sad to watch at the same time. I have also seen phobic 6s, sp and so-firsts, do some major sucking up. Unlike 3s they often keep to whichever figure(s) they've attached themselves to for a long while, even at their own expense.
I've (so/sp 3) done this a LOT. In my opinion, once I'm disenchanted with my boss and realize I'm probably leaving my job I'll try my hardest to make it a clean cut and drop the charm on everyone at the job, not just the boss.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
For me, pretty much every action we do in order to endear ourself to someone else, or attain success can be seen as sucking up by someone else. Until and unless we go by the book and try to attain everything methodically --- but if we did that, then we'd be no better than everyone else who's also "just doing their jobs" ... For me personally, the idea of "just doing my job" doesn't compute. I have to compete for my success -- and even though I don't do it in a manner that could be directly seen as "sucking up" ---- the minute I decide to work during my lunch hour, or stay an hour late --- that IS still sucking up - at least to me.


If I didn't do little things that set me apart, how the heck would I compete with others if I just did what everyone else did? That would be so ... common .. typical ... boring. I need to bring attention to my work. I need recognition for it. So even doing the best job I can possibly do is sucking up. The only thing that isn't sucking up for me is taking the job description and using it as a sort of checklist ...


For me, the idea that "Oh, I did everythng I was supposed to do" means that I will rise --- but rise at a pace JUST like everyone else --- and that is unacceptable. I want to be on the fast-track -- I want to rise fast --- and therefore I do what I can.


Yeah .. I don't suck up by what would be seen as "favours" or whatever -- but I do suck up by being better than the best at what I do. I suck up by showing up for extra days on the job, by putting in over-time. Anything above and beyond the call of duty is a form of endearment to the management and therefore in my personal opinion sucking up.


Heh .. I had a feeling 3's wouldn't be agreement over this issue and I like all the responses so far.


The things that I won't do are:


- Personal favours
- Flattery and flirting [though I do openly flirt with female clients -- especially when I know that they're expecting it and will respond in kind]
- Personal gifts out of my own pocket [though I always kept a marketing budget for give aways for clients and stakeholders]
- Bribery
- Sexual favours [goes without saying]


A lot of things are fair game -- and a form of sucking up in my opinion ;)
 

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What does "sucking up" mean to you?

A: Saying things/acting against your own normative behavior for the appeasement of others.

Based on your definition of it -- have you ever willingly indulged in sucking up to get ahead?

A: No. I'm way too rigid in my personal beliefs to roll over for the next person who walks through the door.

Given the opportunity where it won't reflect poorly on you in any way, would you?

A: No. It doesn't matter if it doesn't reflect poorly on me-- it's not about others' perceptions. I know I backed down and that makes me the loser no matter what I gain.

How far are you willing to go for your superiors for your professional success?

A: If I respect my superiors, I work hard for them. I believe my work ethic is a reflection of my appreciative nature (probably a Fi thing, but I don't like to say thanks aloud to those I appreciate. i'm big on actions doing the speaking.) That being said, I will be strategic about when and where to voice my opinions.

Hmmm...but as to how far I will go for my superiors for my success? As far as it takes so long as my boundaries are not crossed.


---

Ok .. let's change the word from "sucking up" to doing small things for success like [answer with a yes or no if you like]:

- Adding and communicating with bosses on FB and wishing them on special occasions No
- Driving to their house with a small birthday gift No. That would get me fired.
- Taking on extra work like volunteering for additional projects Yes. I believe it gives me more opportunites to showcase my abilities.
- Inviting them out to expensive lunches I'm poor, so no.
- Visit their office every morning just to say "Hi" and make up stuff to talk about along the way.I do this because I'm social.
- Be ever-present when the boss is around Hah. No. I'm wherever I need to be doing whatever is important, boss or no boss.
- Look busy do nothing I'm never doing nothing. I'm just doing something that isn't work related.
- Exaggerate in verbal / written progress reports to make it sound like you had to go an extra mile No. I understate my qualities more often than not. I do not like to talk about my accomplishments with others unless it's a story that entertains them.

Funny thing, though. I know a 3w2 who made taking out the trash sound like a special administrative duty on his resume. He loaded his resume with exaggerations and half truths-- which proved to his benefit. I both admire and laugh at the audacity of it. Definitely not something I would do.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Funny thing, though. I know a 3w2 who made taking out the trash sound like a special administrative duty on his resume. He loaded his resume with exaggerations and half truths-- which proved to his benefit. I both admire and laugh at the audacity of it. Definitely not something I would do.[/B]
Yeah ... I've noticed many 3's have a habit of exaggeration ... even I do. I think passion and 3's really go together .. even though a 3 may 'just' be a trash collector ... in his/her mind *if* he/she likes what he/she is doing, they're job is desribed as something like

- Giving back to the community through environment pollution control via waste disposal management
- Introduced new systems of waste disposal by mapping out most efficient route to disposal units which improved overall efficency of the company
- Through contributions to the company's waste disposal systems, the organization met Safety and Health standards 3 years running

And that's what it really is ... isn't it?
 

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I'm often perceived as a kiss-ass... a suck-up. The thing is though, I'm not doing those things in order to gain personal benefit. I do them because I want to ^.^ I like making other people feel good and making things easier on them.
 

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What does "sucking up" mean to you?


"Sucking up" means being a fuckin sycophant who can't quite get ahead on the basis of his/her own merit. It means making insincere flattering comments that you think will aid your progress through the ranks. The fact is most people can pick up on anything fake, so unless you're really clever about it, don't even try.


Based on your definition of it -- have you ever willingly indulged in sucking up to get ahead?

I've done a lot to get ahead, but being a sniveling sycophant was not part of my arsenal. I am pleasant with people I work with, and I treat them with respect. Other than that, I want my work to speak for itself. I want to be known for my skills and expertise and not for being the sucking up type.


Given the opportunity where it won't reflect poorly on you in any way, would you?


I'll be honest with you. I can give genuine compliments to people when they deserve it. But, I have, over time, become more skeptical of complimenting Bosses, sincere though I may be, because some of them have seemed rather paranoid. LOL. With the level-headed balanced type of people, I am more open to sincerely appreciating their work/contribution/understanding nature or what have you. I just time it right, don't overdo it and mean it. "Sucking up" is not it.

How far are you willing to go for your superiors for your professional success?

I don't go too far for my 'superiors'. Most of these 'superiors' tend to become uncomfortable after a while because they can sense I am eying their position. I can then tone down my overwhelming drive to appear harmless and friendly. In case they're going through a personal crisis or really need help, I can be very accommodating and helpful out of genuine concern as I'd be with anyone else. It's give and take. You have to maintain that balance for practicality sake, as well. Other than that, I don't bend over backwards for Bosses and shit.
And, I've done pretty damn well for a 23 year old;). So, while my strategies can be improved upon, a mix of honesty, some charm and genuineness seem to have worked.

---

Ok .. let's change the word from "sucking up" to doing small things for success like [answer with a yes or no if you like]:


- Adding and communicating with bosses on FB and wishing them on special occasions

Well, on my professional fb account, yes. I don't have Bosses on my private account. But, I only wish them on important occasions.

- Driving to their house with a small birthday gift

No, not unless the Boss has done me a similar favour in the past or managed to really...really earn my respect (which is very rare). Also, I'd do this only for an older lady/gentleman as a courtesy. Though, I've never done this. It's unlikely that I'd do this, but it's a remote possibility. A lot would depend on the organizational culture of the company, as well.

- Taking on extra work like volunteering for additional projects
Sometimes. This is a good strategy. It allows me to showcase my skills.

- Inviting them out to expensive lunches
LOFL. Not usually. This sounds cheap. If I were to achieve groundbreaking success, I'd invite the Boss to lunch along with other office staff. But, I won't just invite a bitch to expensive lunches for no reason.:laughing:

- Visit their office every morning just to say "Hi" and make up stuff to talk about along the way.
No fuckin way.The making up stuff to talk about part is really cheesy, and a Boss with half a brain would pick up on the flattery anyway. The greeting..I do it sometimes.

- Be ever-present when the boss is around
NO :D
- Look busy do nothing
Oh yes
- Exaggerate in verbal / written progress reports to make it sound like you had to go an extra mile
Yes, in moderation and within reason
 
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