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Thanks for that, that's a good rule of thumb. So anyway i believe i've met a 3w4 since making this thread and believe that i understand the difference now.
3w4s:
Mostly introverted
Often emotionally subdued
Meticulous with regards to their appearance and persona
Want to be quiet achievers
Often wish to appear a little mysterious and/or alternative

4w3s:
Mostly extroverted
Emotionally expressive
Often want their appearance to reflect an idealised version of their personality
Desire to excel at what they're passionate about
Want to be seen as warm, artistically gifted and attractive

Both wish to appear unique and different to everyone else in some way.
Swordsman of Mana approves this message
 

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I like the bit about 3w4 liking spy stories. Incidentally, one of my favorite movies from last year is "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy."
 

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...bahh....i've been thinking recently of a 4w3 for my wing as a 4...but i'm now leaning more towards small wing 4w5 mindset or 6w7 more after reading this thread...this little book with the rheti in it isn't really cutting all the information i need.....
 

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I agree with some opinions on here, and disagree with others.
My best friend of 18 years is a 3w4. Her Myers-Briggs is ENTJ.
I'm a 4w3 and my Myers-Briggs is INFP.

She is outgoing. Assertive. A charmer. Motivated. Well-kept. Sharp. Present. A bit romantic. Un-emotional. Vain. Consistent.
I am ingoing. Periodically assertive. Periodically a charmer. Always motivated. Alternating between polished/stylish and unique. Witty. Very romantic. Vain. Emotional. Not consistant, but more consistant than other 4's.

I am much more moody and internally focused than she. She is much more take charge than I. I can get emotionally dramatic when I get caught up in my own problems. I am more silly. I am more creative. I am more endearingly lovable. She is more capable in life. She is the ultimate multitasker while I get overwhelmed much more easily due to excess emotion and self-focus.

We are both intent on growth. However, she wants to use it to excel and be recognized. I want it to relieve the internal conflict I feel. She craves praise and attention more than anything. I want these things as well, but the spotlight makes me slightly uncomfortable. I want to be recognized and a star, but not be in the direct spotlight. We are both competitive.

She is the ultimate networker. I network well when I'm feeling balanced, but I cannot maintain the relationships adequately while she does it effortlessly.

Bottom line. From what I've noticed, 3w4 is a capable driven person with a touch of moodiness, romanticism, and selfish introspection. 4w3 is a creative romantic with a streak of ambition, drive, and motivation.
 

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you dont really have to have a personality to be a supermodel LOL..... so i wouldnt type "stereotypical" supermodel.. but i'd guess the best would be ISTJs.. (as witrh any job that requiers hard work lol and dedication) because they are better when they are quiet. doing their work. dieting. being on time. supermodel shouldnt smile a lot... well. :D


i dont follow fashion that much to know designer's personalities but i noticed that a few of them are def a 4 (as expected..) i mean, that guy who killed himself last year, cant remember his name !, was definately a 4 (well he could be a 7 too .. but i think 4), and an ISFP.. what was his name ? he was young, mid 30ies... ah.. poor guy.. :(
You must mean Alexander McQueen.
 

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I'm a 4w3 who dated a 3w4, and the differences were glaringly obvious between us... although I think some of that also has to do with instinctual stackings/fixes/ect. Still, this was what I observed with us, I don't know if this is necessarily a rule:

Her: 3w4 - 5w4 - 1w2 so/sp
Me: 4w3 - 9w1 - 7w6 sx/so

3w4:
- More concerned about public image
- More prideful
- Less willing to admit wrongs
- More desire for approval
- More driven
- More polished
- Success-oriented
- More pragmatic rather than emotional
- Less concerned with the falseness of their "images"

4w3:
- More emotional
- Less consistent
- More unpredictable
- More willing to take the blame
- More self-depecating
- More concerned about sincerity and being genuine
- More troubled by contrasts between image and truth, but still indulges in them (3 wing)
- Feels more guilt, self-hatred, can appear "weaker" because of their emotional expressiveness
- More self-aware

Both:
- Vain
- Self-absorbed
- Self-focused
- Attention-seeking (somewhat)
- Need for validation
- Need to have a "uniqueness"

My ex was an extremely unhealthy, semi-narcissistic 3, though. So my point of view is obviously skewed. That, and the fact that she is an ex will probably not keep me entirely unbiased in this situation. Still, most of our fights centered around my anger at her profound dishonesty and falseness - something that I couldn't stand. That seems to me the main source of contention between 4s and 3s. 4s desperately want to be accepted for who they are, whereas 3s want to be accepted and seen as worthy and successful, regardless of how they have to go about it. I think 4s can often look down on 3s for this, and 3s can often look at 4s and find them to be unpredictable and overly emotional.

There's a "coolness" to 3s, an ability to think on their feet, as well as the talent of making themselves look good no matter WHAT the situation. My ex tried to talk herself out of everything - but she made the mistake of trying to talk out of a traffic ticket, and ended up having to go to court because the cop did not appreciate it...lols.

So yes. 3s are essentially 3s and 4s are essentially 4s underneath it all. I think motivation plays a big part in the differences between these two types regardless of wing.
 

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Hi guys, i'm having trouble distinguishing the difference in behaviour of 3w4s and 4w3s.
What are some examples of when they would behave differently?
Well, one would be a little more like a three and the other is more fourish.
 

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polished INTJ --> 3w4
highly aware INFJ --> 4w3


The 4w3 would indulge in just a bit more drama and theatrics, while the 3w4 is more focused on presenting a structured, aesthetically acceptable self.
 

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This might sound bizarre, but if you've watched the movie "Megamind", then this is like the best example. Metroman is a super 3w4 and megamind is a 4w3. Metroman wants to be whatever is supposed to be the coolest thing to the people he protects, eventually he realizes he has no identity other than being the people's protector and fakes his own death. Megamind wanted to be accepted to feel special and he never got it so he decided he would play the bad guy and took pride in being the "outcast".

I think they both are So instinct. Also I think Metroman is 3-7-1 and Megamind is 4-7-8.
 

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well, i have two good friends, one a 3w4 and the other 4w3. i know the 3w4 a bit better, but i think i can explain well enough. i think the 3w4 is so/sp and the 4w3 sx/so. they are both NFs.

one of the most interesting things i have noted is how they have responded to group positions. they have both been in a place to become the head officer of a group at different times. both are very smart, well-respected, and well-organized overachievers. the 3w4 was essentially chosen (you can see the w4 vs w2 difference here - 3w4 got the position by being "in" with the most influential members, instead of campaigning for popularity vote, as a w2 would be more likely to do). and she did a really excellent job at her position. the 4w3, on the other hand, was favored by the majority of the group in a later election cycle, but she had other plans she was considering, and ditched the position that was practically already hers to pursue travelling across the globe, which she really could have done later. i can never see the 3w4 doing that, unless she wasn't very dedicated to the group, in which case she just wouldn't be in the group at all. but the 4w3 felt like where she was travelling was a really big part of her soul, and she didn't want to wait any longer.

otherwise, in general, the 3w4 is more socially observant and aware. she operates behind a screen a bit (i can recognize this easily because i do too!), carefully watching and choosing what she shows and what she doesn't. they both have a sort of disdain for others they don't deem "worthy", but the 3w4's is more active/obvious, while the 4w3's is more passive/done through omission. like, 3w4 will give you the cold shoulder, but 4w3 just won't pay attention to you at all. when the 3w4 enters a room with a group of people she knows, she is very clear about who she favors and does not. not in a mean way, but she is simply cool and non-responsive to those she does not favor, while she glows for those whom she does. the 4w3 on the other hand will tend to be warmer off the bat, saying hi to people she doesn't necessarily like much, and has less of an "in charge" aura about her however, she can definitely be just as judgmental as the 3w4 when she's talking about clothes, shoes, hair, etc. she's more "elitist" - she judges less on behavior and more on expression.

correspondingly, the 4w3 is more dreamy and caught up in her ideas, while the 3w4 is more action-inclined. when the 3w4 wants something, she's already halfway to it. when the 4w3 wants something, she'll fantasize about it more and act on it comparatively less. when 4w3 gets really excited about something, everyone has heard about it as she's plastered it all over her social networking sites; when 3w4 is excited about something, only her closest confidantes hear about it, until it's 100% that it's happening, and then she shares it with everyone. 4w3 is more openly "goofy"; 3w4 can be really "silly" if she trusts you. predictably, the 3w4 likes spy stories; the 4w3 is in love with holden caulfield.
I'm a 4w3 who dated a 3w4, and the differences were glaringly obvious between us... although I think some of that also has to do with instinctual stackings/fixes/ect. Still, this was what I observed with us, I don't know if this is necessarily a rule:

Her: 3w4 - 5w4 - 1w2 so/sp
Me: 4w3 - 9w1 - 7w6 sx/so

3w4:
- More concerned about public image
- More prideful

- Less willing to admit wrongs
- More desire for approval
- More driven
- More polished
- Success-oriented
- More pragmatic rather than emotional

- Less concerned with the falseness of their "images"

4w3:
- More emotional
- Less consistent
- More unpredictable

- More willing to take the blame
- More self-depecating
- More concerned about sincerity and being genuine
- More troubled by contrasts between image and truth, but still indulges in them (3 wing)
- Feels more guilt, self-hatred, can appear "weaker" because of their emotional expressiveness
- More self-aware

Both:
- Vain
- Self-absorbed
- Self-focused
- Attention-seeking (somewhat)
- Need for validation
- Need to have a "uniqueness"
That simplifies things.

polished INTJ --> 3w4
highly aware INFJ --> 4w3


The 4w3 would indulge in just a bit more drama and theatrics, while the 3w4 is more focused on presenting a structured, aesthetically acceptable self.
That's interesting.

I think the picture is getting clearer now.
 

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Hi guys I have a problem between whether I am 3w4 or 4w3

I feel like I need to find my own way in life. I seek a "better me" and I am very self focused, walking away from it only, when what I feel and what others think clearly doesn't merge. I hate to admit others my mistakes or make them feel like they are right or better. I am very competitive and need to feel that I am powerful or cool.

But I am not very socially aware. I only use society to make my vision of myself more true as they are my other eyes on myself. I don't really care what they think, but I know thieir critique can give me an edge to achieve what I want to. I feel secluded from people and different, but feel the need to be around them (When i was less self aware, i was a nerd but now i am pretty social person, although I do it mostly for my own development). I do need competition and comparison to feel better when I win or learn things when I lose. I feel like I don't want to waste time on being emotional, but I am very emotional and spend just as much time thinking on myself than creating myself. I think it's more of vanity than real need, but then I have very vivid and unique imagination that tells me, that I will be never sated with my image unless I work to really become one with it, and even then I will keep climbing cause "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence".

I want to be seen as: Emotionally expressive, taking what's good from life, developing myself, a "happy dreamer" who can make dreams reality and, and be alluring because of that ability, and internally secure because of what I have achieved.
I want to become : true to what I feel I should be, Not needing to lie or compete to gain worth, Learn to be happy with what I have, have ability to think about others, and overcome laziness to really go for whatever vision of myself I have.
I am: Someone who was a computer-addicted nerd (internet games due to their ranking ladders and compulsion to be the best while I cannot do so in life) but changed that a lot. Prideful, Lazy, living in his head instead of life, talking more than doing, self focused. Self aware but only when I can focus on myself, not really aware how my actions are seen or taken, but liking to be in center of attention. I often socially fail to look cool because of putting myself in line of critique's fire. Looking to be a leader for his glamour but not the responsibility it is involved with. I wanna feel mostly free and not in real social form. I am playing guitar and like to give that feeling out.

I feel like my 3 is wind that makes my inner 4 flame larger. And my 4, my inner vibe is also a fan that gives direction to that wind. But without 3, there would be no air to blow and I would be still and unmoving, in despair. I live to be a 3, so the unique 4 becomes happy. But also are never sated with how 4 is and only feel happy if am moving towards my image.

Idk if I want to be seen as emotional (4 is internal part of 3 image) or I am really so sensitive, as my pride doesn't let me use that sensitivity for other people's matters though?
 

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Hi guys I have a problem between whether I am 3w4 or 4w3

I feel like I need to find my own way in life. I seek a "better me" and I am very self focused, walking away from it only, when what I feel and what others think clearly doesn't merge. I hate to admit others my mistakes or make them feel like they are right or better. I am very competitive and need to feel that I am powerful or cool.

But I am not very socially aware. I only use society to make my vision of myself more true as they are my other eyes on myself. I don't really care what they think, but I know thieir critique can give me an edge to achieve what I want to. I feel secluded from people and different, but feel the need to be around them (When i was less self aware, i was a nerd but now i am pretty social person, although I do it mostly for my own development). I do need competition and comparison to feel better when I win or learn things when I lose. I feel like I don't want to waste time on being emotional, but I am very emotional and spend just as much time thinking on myself than creating myself. I think it's more of vanity than real need, but then I have very vivid and unique imagination that tells me, that I will be never sated with my image unless I work to really become one with it, and even then I will keep climbing cause "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence".

I want to be seen as: Emotionally expressive, taking what's good from life, developing myself, a "happy dreamer" who can make dreams reality and, and be alluring because of that ability, and internally secure because of what I have achieved.
I want to become : true to what I feel I should be, Not needing to lie or compete to gain worth, Learn to be happy with what I have, have ability to think about others, and overcome laziness to really go for whatever vision of myself I have.
I am: Someone who was a computer-addicted nerd (internet games due to their ranking ladders and compulsion to be the best while I cannot do so in life) but changed that a lot. Prideful, Lazy, living in his head instead of life, talking more than doing, self focused. Self aware but only when I can focus on myself, not really aware how my actions are seen or taken, but liking to be in center of attention. I often socially fail to look cool because of putting myself in line of critique's fire. Looking to be a leader for his glamour but not the responsibility it is involved with. I wanna feel mostly free and not in real social form. I am playing guitar and like to give that feeling out.

I feel like my 3 is wind that makes my inner 4 flame larger. And my 4, my inner vibe is also a fan that gives direction to that wind. But without 3, there would be no air to blow and I would be still and unmoving, in despair. I live to be a 3, so the unique 4 becomes happy. But also are never sated with how 4 is and only feel happy if am moving towards my image.

Idk if I want to be seen as emotional (4 is internal part of 3 image) or I am really so sensitive, as my pride doesn't let me use that sensitivity for other people's matters though?
Except for the insentivity to other people's problems (that comes with time), I am almost exactly how ou described. Your longins and pet peeves are the same as mine.

I'm quite positive I'm a 4w3, but my wing seems to be stronger than for most, giving quite the 3 "feel" a lot of the times. You're probably the same. That or we both are 3w4's who think they are 4w3's :laughing:
 
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