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Discussion Starter #1
Main Questions

1. What drives you in life? What do you look for?
Being smart and nice and unique. That I can prove the impossible. Being witty, all this on top of being nice and honest and truthful. Unbeatable. Getting merit on talent and integrity not being a workaholic.
To be able to do everything. Know everything to the point where I’m a different person.

2. What do you hope to accomplish in your life?
I want to be a musician and have a high position so I can travel everywhere, buy all the movies and great works of literature. To find my place, like a secret spot. People ask where I’ve lived and what I’ve scene and what I can do and go “wow!” and wish they could be like me. But I wouldn’t be snobby for it. I’d tell they people who would actually care (cool people) my experiences and give them advice. We’d share our thoughts to accomplish things and so on…

3. What do you hope to avoid doing or being? What values are important to you?
Impulsive, and stupid and not noticing things.

4. What are your biggest fears (not including phobias)? Why?
That I’ve missed something important, and that I could have been so much more. And that I can’t do stuff as fast as others.

5. How do you want others to see you? How do you see yourself?
WANT: Pretty, unique, smart, talented, sweet, honorary.
AM: lazy, fearful, silly, sensitive, held from reaching what I can because of something.


6. What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?
Best: winning, knowing I can achieve more than most
Worst: Being slow.

7. Describe how you experience each of: a) anger; b) shame; c) anxiety.
Anger: Not being able to explain something that people don’t believe is valid. They don’t get it and violate something so deep that I don’t even know.
Shame: Getting and advantage and not using it. People having worse conditions and still beating me because they are driven and I’m soft.
Anxiety: What are the chances that I can be who I want to be when I grow up? Competition, can I reach my full potential? Am I too late?

8. Describe how you respond to each of: a) stress; b) unexpected change; c) conflict.
Stress: Don’t do anything and snap at everyone, do things I like, perfectionist attitude, don’t do all rather than try and fail.
Conflict: sweating, want to show my views but afraid to but am strong enough to face it depending on what the conflict is.
Unexpected change: Annoyed unless it was a very pleasant one, even so unnerved but I have a very good temper (actually no bad temper at all) so I don’t show it. I only speak up if something will go seriously wrong because someone isn’t realizing something. But then again I only realize things when I’m not under stress because I’m incompetent.


9. Describe your orientation to: a) authority; b) power. How do you respond to these?
Authority: I ignore (but don’t fight or speak up) their wishes if it won’t affect me or if I disagree strongly or don’t have time for what they want. But they tend to like me so I’m not sure what to say.

10. What is your overall outlook on life and humanity?
Interesting, stressful, scary, wonderful, exciting, wish I could do more. I really need to prove myself.


Optional Questions

11. Discuss an event that has impacted your life significantly; more importantly, how you responded to it.
They are a lot of smart kids.

12. Comment on your relationship with trust.
I trust those who deserve my trust. But I’m not arrogant. Why is one person’s trust so important anyways? They see it as arrogance because they value by trust and the opposite too much.

13. List some of the traits you: a) like; b) dislike most about yourself.
So hard so answer these broad questions because there is too much in my head to pick up a connecting thought.

14. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?
I am scared, unconfident, lazy, absent minded, I care soo much. There’s more to me. I want to know more about the adult world. I’m an intellect. I’m different! I just can’t express….

15. If a stranger insults you, how do you respond/feel? What if they compliment you?
I feel bad and hate them but I hardly care either so I just ignore them. If they compliment me I just say thank you but don’t really care unless I was anticipating a compliment.

16. What's something you are: a) thankful you have; b) wish you could have? Why?
1) I wish I could have someone who gets every bit of me and that I had athletic ability
2) I am thankful there is nothing I’m horrific at.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Marked what I identify with in the 3 types.


  • Type Four Overview

    We have named this type The Individualist because Fours maintain their identity by seeing themselves as fundamentally different from others. Fours feel that they are unlike other human beings, and consequently, that no one can understand them or love them adequately. They often see themselves as uniquely talented, possessing special, one-of-a-kind gifts, but also as uniquely disadvantaged or flawed. More than any other type, Fours are acutely aware of and focused on their personal differences and deficiencies.
    Healthy Fours are honest with themselves: they own all of their feelings and can look at their motives, contradictions, and emotional conflicts without denying or whitewashing them. They may not necessarily like what they discover, but they do not try to rationalize their states, nor do they try to hide them from themselves or others. They are not afraid to see themselves “warts and all.”Healthy Fours are willing to reveal highly personal and potentially shameful things about themselves because they are determined to understand the truth of their experience—so that they can discover who they are and come to terms with their emotional history. This ability also enables Fours to endure suffering with a quiet strength. Their familiarity with their own darker nature makes it easier for them to process painful experiences that might overwhelm other types.
    Nevertheless, Fours often report that they feel they are missing something in themselves, although they may have difficulty identifying exactly what that “something” is. Is it will power? Social ease? Self-confidence? Emotional tranquility?—all of which they see in others, seemingly in abundance. Given time and sufficient perspective, Fours generally recognize that they are unsure about aspects of their self-image—??their personality or ego-structure itself. They feel that they lack a clear and stable identity, particularly a social persona that they feel comfortable with.
    While it is true that Fours often feel different from others, they do not really want to be alone. They may feel socially awkward or self-conscious, but they deeply wish to connect with people who understand them and their feelings. The “romantics” of the Enneagram, they long for someone to come into their lives and appreciate the secret self that they have privately nurtured and hidden from the world. If, over time, such validation remains out of reach, Fours begin to build their identity around how unlike everyone else they are. The outsider therefore comforts herself by becoming an insistent individualist: everything must be done on her own, in her own way, on her own terms. Fours’ mantra becomes “I am myself. Nobody understands me. I am different and special,” while they secretly wish they could enjoy the easiness and confidence that others seem to enjoy.
    Fours typically have problems with a negative self-image and chronically low self-esteem. They attempt to compensate for this by cultivating a Fantasy Self—an idealized self-image which is built up primarily in their imaginations. A Four we know shared with us that he spent most of his spare time listening to classical music while fantasizing about being a great concert pianist—à la Vladimir Horowitz. Unfortunately, his commitment to practicing fell far short of his fantasized self-image, and he was often embarrassed when people asked him to play for them. His actual abilities, while not poor, became sources of shame.
    In the course of their lives, Fours may try several different identities on for size, basing them on styles, preferences, or qualities they find attractive in others. But underneath the surface, they still feel uncertain about who they really are. The problem is that they base their identity largely on their feelings. When Fours look inward they see a kaleidoscopic, ever-shifting pattern of emotional reactions. Indeed, Fours accurately perceive a truth about human nature—that it is dynamic and ever changing. But because they want to create a stable, reliable identity from their emotions, they attempt to cultivate only certain feelings while rejecting others. Some feelings are seen as “me,” while others are “not me.” By attempting to hold on to specific moods and express others, Fours believe that they are being true to themselves.
    One of the biggest challenges Fours face is learning to let go of feelings from the past; they tend to nurse wounds and hold onto negative feelings about those who have hurt them. Indeed, Fours can become so attached to longing and disappointment that they are unable to recognize the many treasures in their lives.
    Leigh is a working mother who has struggled with these difficult feelings for many years.
    “I collapse when I am out in the world. I have had a trail of relationship disasters. I have hated my sister’s goodness—and hated goodness in general. I went years without joy in my life, just pretending to smile because real smiles would not come to me. I have had a constant longing for whatever I cannot have. My longings can never become fulfilled because I now realize that I am attached to ‘the longing’ and not to any specific end result.”
    There is a Sufi story that relates to this about an old dog that had been badly abused and was near starvation. One day, the dog found a bone, carried it to a safe spot, and started gnawing away. The dog was so hungry that it chewed on the bone for a long time and got every last bit of nourishment that it could out of it. After some time, a kind old man noticed the dog and its pathetic scrap and began quietly setting food out for it. But the poor hound was so attached to its bone that it refused to let go of it and soon starved to death.
    Fours are in the same predicament. As long as they believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with them, they cannot allow themselves to experience or enjoy their many good qualities. To acknowledge their good qualities would be to lose their sense of identity (as a suffering victim) and to be without a relatively consistent personal identity (their Basic Fear). Fours grow by learning to see that much of their story is not true—or at least it is not true any more. The old feelings begin to fall away once they stop telling themselves their old tale: it is irrelevant to who they are right now.
    (from The Wisdom of the Enneagram, p. 180-182)
    Excerpt from Type Four ITAR (4:40 minutes)

    Buy the Individual Type Audio Recording of Type Four—Click Here

    Type Four—More Depth by Level

    Healthy Levels

    Level 1 (At Their Best): Profoundly creative, expressing the personal and the universal, possibly in a work of art. Inspired, self-renewing and regenerating: able to transform all their experiences into something valuable: self-creative.
    Level 2: Self-aware, introspective, on the "search for self," aware of feelings and inner impulses. Sensitive and intuitive both to self and others: gentle, tactful, compassionate.
    Level 3: Highly personal, individualistic, "true to self." Self-revealing, emotionally honest, humane. Ironic view of self and life: can be serious and funny, vulnerable and emotionally strong.
    Average Levels

    Level 4: Take an artistic, romantic orientation to life, creating a beautiful, aesthetic environment to cultivate and prolong personal feelings. Heighten reality through fantasy, passionate feelings, and the imagination.
    Level 5: To stay in touch with feelings, they interiorize everything, taking everything personally, but become self-absorbed and introverted, moody and hypersensitive, shy and self-conscious, unable to be spontaneous or to "get out of themselves." Stay withdrawn to protect their self-image and to buy time to sort out feelings.
    Level 6: Gradually think that they are different from others, and feel that they are exempt from living as everyone else does. They become melancholy dreamers, disdainful, decadent, and sensual, living in a fantasy world. Self-pity and envy of others leads to self-indulgence, and to becoming increasingly impractical, unproductive, effete, and precious.
    Unhealthy Levels

    Level 7: When dreams fail, become self-inhibiting and angry at self, depressed and alienated from self and others, blocked and emotionally paralyzed. Ashamed of self, fatigued and unable to function.
    Level 8: Tormented by delusional self-contempt, self-reproaches, self-hatred, and morbid thoughts: everything is a source of torment. Blaming others, they drive away anyone who tries to help them.
    Level 9: Despairing, feel hopeless and become self-destructive, possibly abusing alcohol or drugs to escape. In the extreme: emotional breakdown or suicide is likely. Generally corresponds to the Avoidant, Depressive, and Narcissistic personality disorders.

    italics = questionable as to whether I identify with it
    bold = identify well with
    bold + italics = too true
    underline = have a questions
    and anything else would be obvious..... yeah​






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  • Today 09:56 PM #82

    LilyAskar
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    Type Five Overview

    We have named personality type Five The Investigator because, more than any other type, Fives want to find out why things are the way they are. They want to understand how the world works, whether it is the cosmos, the microscopic world, the animal, vegetable, or mineral kingdoms—or the inner world of their imaginations. They are always searching, asking questions, and delving into things in depth. They do not accept received opinions and doctrines, feeling a strong need to test the truth of most assumptions for themselves.
    John, a graphic artist, describes this approach to life.
    “Being a Five means always needing to learn, to take in information about the world. A day without learning is like a day without ‘sunshine.’ As a Five, I want to have an understanding of life. I like having a theoretical explanation about why things happen as they do. This understanding makes me feel in charge and in control. I most often learn from a distance as an observer and not a participant. Sometimes, it seems that understanding life is as good as living it. It is a difficult journey to learn that life must be lived and not just studied.”
    Behind Fives’ relentless pursuit of knowledge are deep insecurities about their ability to function successfully in the world. Fives feel that they do not have an ability to do things as well as others. But rather than engage directly with activities that might bolster their confidence,Fives “take a step back” into their minds where they feel more capable. Their belief is that from the safety of their minds they will eventually figure out how to do things—and one day rejoin the world.
    Fives spend a lot of time observing and contemplating—listening to the sounds of wind or of a synthesizer, or taking notes on the activities in an anthill in their back yard. As they imm combinations (playing a piece of music based onerse themselves in their observations, they begin to internalize their knowledge and gain a feeling of self-confidence. They can then go out and play a piece on the synthesizer or tell people what they know about ants. They may also stumble across exciting new information or make new creative recordings of wind and water). When they get verification of their observations and hypotheses, or see that others understand their work, it is a confirmation of their competency, and this fulfills their Basic Desire. (“You know what you are talking about.”)
    Knowledge, understanding, and insight are thus highly valued by Fives, because their identity is built around “having ideas” and being someone who has something unusual and insightful to say.
    Thus, for their own security and self-esteem, Fives need to have at least one area in which they have a degree of expertise that will allow them to feel capable and connected with the world. Fives think, “I am going toFor this reason, Fives are not interested in exploring what is already familiar and well-established; rather, their attention is drawn to the unusual, the overlooked, the secret, the occult, the bizarre, the fantastic, the “unthinkable.” Investigating "unknown territory"—knowing something that others do not know, or creating something that no one has ever experienced—allows Fives to have a niche for themselves that no one else occupies. They believe that developing this niche is the best way that they can attain independence and confidence. .find something that I can do really well, and then I will be able to meet the challenges of life. But I can’t have other things distracting me or getting in the way” They therefore develop an intense focus on whatever they can master and feel secure about. It may be the world of mathematics, or the world of rock and roll, or classical music, or car mechanics, or horror and science fiction, or a world entirely created in their imagination. Not all Fives are scholars or Ph.Ds. But, depending on their intelligence and the resources available to them, they focus intensely on mastering something that has captured their interest.
    For better or worse, the areas that Fives explore do not depend on social validation; indeed, if others agree with their ideas too readily, Fives tend to fear that their ideas might be too conventional. History is full of famous Fives who overturned accepted ways of understanding or doing things (Darwin, Einstein, Nietzshce). Many more Fives, however, have become lost in the Byzantine complexities of their own thought processes, becoming merely eccentric and socially isolated.
    The intense focus of Fives can thus lead to remarkable discoveries and innovations, but when the personality is more fixated, it can also create self-defeating problems. This is because their focus of attention unwittingly serves to distract them from their most pressing practical problems. Whatever the sources of their anxieties may be—relationships, lack of physical strength, inability to gain employment, and so forth—average Fives tend not to deal with these issues. Rather, they find something else to do that will make them feel more competent. The irony is that no matter what degree of mastery they develop in their area of expertise, this cannot solve their more basic insecurities about functioning in the world. For example, as a marine biologist, a Five could learn everything there is to know about a type of shellfish, but if her fear is that she is never going to be able to run her own household adequately, she will not have solved her underlying anxiety.
    Dealing directly with physical matters can feel extremely daunting for Fives. Henry is a life scientist working in a major medical research lab:
    “Since I was a child, I have shied away from sports and strenuous physical activity whenever possible. I was never able to climb the ropes in gym class, stopped participating in sports as soon as it was feasible, and the smell of a gymnasium still makes me uncomfortable. At the same time, I have always had a very active mental life. I learned to read at the age of three, and in school I was always one of the smartest kids in academic subjects.”
    Thus, much of their time gets spent "collecting" and developing ideas and skills they believe will make them feel confident and prepared. They want to retain everything that they have learned and “carry it around in their heads.” The problem is that while they are engrossed in this process, they are not interacting with others or even increasing many other practical and social skills. They devote more and more time to collecting and attending to their collections, less to anything related to their real needs.
    Thus, the challenge to Fives is to understand that they can pursue whatever questions or problems spark their imaginations and maintain relationships, take proper care of themselves, and do all of the things that are the hallmarks of a healthy life.
    (from The Wisdom of the Enneagram, p. 208-210)
    Excerpt from Type Five ITAR (5:06 minutes)

    Buy the Individual Type Audio Recording of Type Five—Click Here

    Type Five—More Depth by Level

    Healthy Levels

    Level 1(At Their Best): Become visionaries, broadly comprehending the world while penetrating it profoundly. Open-minded, take things in whole, in their true context. Make pioneering discoveries and find entirely new ways of doing and perceiving things.
    Level 2: Observe everything with extraordinary perceptiveness and insight. Most mentally alert, curious, searching intelligence: nothing escapes their notice. Foresight and prediction. Able to concentrate: become engrossed in what has caught their attention.
    Level 3: Attain skillful mastery of whatever interests them. Excited by knowledge: often become expert in some field. Innovative and inventive, producing extremely valuable, original works. Highly independent, idiosyncratic, and whimsical.
    Average Levels

    Level 4: Begin conceptualizing and fine-tuning everything before acting—working things out in their minds: model building, preparing, practicing, and gathering more resources. Studious, acquiring technique. Become specialized, and often "intellectual," often challenging accepted ways of doing things.
    Level 5: Increasingly detached as they become involved with complicated ideas or imaginary worlds. Become preoccupied with their visions and interpretations rather than reality. Are fascinated by off-beat, esoteric subjects, even those involving dark and disturbing elements. Detached from the practical world, a "disembodied mind," although high-strung and intense.
    Level 6: Begin to take an antagonistic stance toward anything which would interfere with their inner world and personal vision. Become provocative and abrasive, with intentionally extreme and radical views. Cynical and argumentative.
    Unhealthy Levels

    Level 7: Become reclusive and isolated from reality, eccentric and nihilistic. Highly unstable and fearful of aggressions: they reject and repulse others and all social attachments.
    Level 8: Get obsessed yet frightened by their threatening ideas, becoming horrified, delirious, and prey to gross distortions and phobias.
    Level 9: Seeking oblivion, they may commit suicide or have a psychotic break with reality. Deranged, explosively self-destructive, with schizophrenic overtones. Generally corresponds to the Schizoid Avoidant and Schizotypal personality disorders.

    Quite so, I'm thinking I'm a 5 now.​






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  • Today 10:13 PM #83

    LilyAskar
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    Type Six Overview

    We have named personality type Six The Loyalist because, of all the personality types, Sixes are the most loyal to their friends and to their beliefs. They will “go down with the ship” and hang on to relationships of all kinds far longer than most other types. Sixes are also loyal to ideas, systems, and beliefs—even to the belief that all ideas or authorities should be questioned or defied. Indeed, not all Sixes go along with the “status quo”: their beliefs may be rebellious and anti-authoritarian, even revolutionary. In any case, they will typically fight for their beliefs more fiercely than they will fight for themselves, and they will defend their community or family more tenaciously than they will defend themselves.
    The reason Sixes are so loyal to others is that they do not want to be abandoned and left without support—their Basic Fear. Thus, the central issue for type Six is a failure of self-confidence. Sixes come to believe that they do not possess the internal resources to handle life’s challenges and vagaries alone, and so increasingly rely on structures, allies, beliefs, and supports outside themselves for guidance to survive. If suitable structures do not exist, they will help create and maintain them.
    Sixes are the primary type in the Thinking Center, meaning that they have themost trouble contacting their own inner guidance. As a result,
    they do not have confidence in their own minds and judgmOn the contrary, they think—and worry—a lot! They also tend to fear making important decisions, although at the same time, they resist having anyone else make decisions for them.ents.
    This does not mean that they do not think. They want to avoid being controlled, but are also afraid of taking responsibility in a way that might put them “in the line of fire.” (The old Japanese adage that says, “The blade of grass that grows too high gets chopped off” relates to this idea.)
    Sixes are always aware of their anxieties and are always looking for ways to construct “social security” bulwarks against them. If Sixes feel that they have sufficient back up, they can move forward with some degree of confidence. But if that crumbles, they become anxious and self-doubting, reawakening their Basic Fear. (“I’m on my own! What am I going to do now?”) A good question for Sixes might therefore be: “When will I know that I have enough security?” Or, to get right to the heart of it, “What is security?” Without Essential inner guidance and the deep sense of support that it brings, Sixes are constantly struggling to find firm ground.
    Sixes attempt to build a network of trust over a background of unsteadiness and fear. They are often filled with a nameless anxiety and then try to find or create reasons why. Wanting to feel that there is something solid and clear-cut in their lives, they can become attached to explanations or positions that seem to explain their situation. Because “belief” (trust, faith, convictions, positions) is difficult for Sixes to achieve, and because it is so important to their sense of stability, once they establish a trustworthy belief, they do not easily question it, nor do they want others to do so. The same is true for individuals in a Six’s life: once Sixes feel they can trust someone, they go to great lengths to maintain connections with the person who acts as a sounding board, a mentor, or a regulator for the Six’s emotional reactions and behavior. They therefore do everything in their power to keep their affiliations going. (“If I don’t trust myself, then I have to find something in this world I can trust.”)
    Although intelligent and accomplished, Connie still has to wrestle with the self-doubt of her type:
    “As my anxiety has come under control, so has my need to ‘check out’ everything with my friends. I used to have to get the nod of approval from several hundred (just joking!) ‘authorities.’ About nearly every decision would involve a council of my friends. I usually would do this one on one: ‘What do you think, Mary?’ ‘If I do this, then that might happen.’ Please make up my mind for me!’…Recently, I’ve narrowed my authorities to just one or two trusted friends, and on occasion, I’ve actually made up my own mind!“
    Until they can get in touch with their own inner guidance, Sixes are like a ping-pong ball that is constantly shuttling back and forth between whatever influence is hitting the hardest in any given moment. Because of this reactivity, no matter what we say about Sixes, the opposite is often also as true. They are both strong and weak, fearful and courageous, trusting and distrusting, defenders and provokers, sweet and sour, aggressive and passive, bullies and weaklings, on the defensive and on the offensive, thinkers and doers, group people and soloists, believers and doubters, cooperative and obstructionistic, tender and mean, generous and petty—and on and on. It is the contradictory picture that is the characteristic “fingerprint” of Sixes, the fact that they are a bundle of opposites.
    The biggest problem for Sixes is that they try to build safety in the environment without resolving their own emotional insecurities. When they learn to face their anxieties, however, Sixes understand that although the world is always changing and is, by nature uncertain, they can be serene and courageous in any circumstance. And they can attain the greatest gift of all, a sense of peace with themselves despite the uncertainties of life.
    (from The Wisdom of the Enneagram, p. 235-236)
    Excerpt from Type Six ITAR (5:21 minutes)

    Buy the Individual Type Audio Recording of Type Six—Click Here

    Type Six—More Depth by Level

    Healthy Levels

    Level 1 (At Their Best): Become self-affirming, trusting of self and others, independent yet symbiotically interdependent and cooperative as an equal. Belief in self leads to true courage, positive thinking, leadership, and rich self-expression.
    Level 2: Able to elicit strong emotional responses from others: very appealing, endearing, lovable, affectionate. Trust important: bonding with others, forming permanent relationships and alliances.
    Level 3: Dedicated to individuals and movements in which they deeply believe. Community builders: responsible, reliable, trustworthy. Hard-working and persevering, sacrificing for others, they create stability and security in their world, bringing a cooperative spirit.
    Average Levels

    Level 4: Start investing their time and energy into whatever they believe will be safe and stable. Organizing and structuring, they look to alliances and authorities for security and continuity. Constantly vigilant, anticipating problems.
    Level 5: To resist having more demands made on them, they react against others passive-aggressively. Become evasive, indecisive, cautious, procrastinating, and ambivalent. Are highly reactive, anxious, and negative, giving contradictory, "mixed signals." Internal confusion makes them react unpredictably.
    Level 6: To compensate for insecurities, they become sarcastic and belligerent, blaming others for their problems, taking a tough stance toward "outsiders." Highly reactive and defensive, dividing people into friends and enemies, while looking for threats to their own security. Authoritarian while fearful of authority, highly suspicious, yet, conspiratorial, and fear-instilling to silence their own fears.
    Unhealthy Levels

    Level 7: Fearing that they have ruined their security, they become panicky, volatile, and self-disparaging with acute inferiority feelings. Seeing themselves as defenseless, they seek out a stronger authority or belief to resolve all problems. Highly divisive, disparaging and berating others
    Level 8: Feeling persecuted, that others are "out to get them," they lash-out and act irrationally, bringing about what they fear. Fanaticism, violence.
    Level 9: Hysterical, and seeking to escape punishment, they become self-destructive and suicidal. Alcoholism, drug overdoses, "skid row," self-abasing behavior. Generally corresponds to the Passive-Aggressive and Paranoid personality disorders.​



 

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Have you considered type 3?
 

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I don't think so because my drive isn't really how I appear as much so as actually knowing a lot. Which part implied so in the questionnaire?
It's not about how you appear, it's about what motivates you. Since you asked, here's what makes me think you can be a Three (3w4, to be exact):

Unbeatable. Getting merit on talent and integrity not being a workaholic.
To be able to do everything.
I want to be a musician and have a high position so I can travel everywhere, buy all the movies and great works of literature. To find my place, like a secret spot. People ask where I’ve lived and what I’ve scene and what I can do and go “wow!” and wish they could be like me. But I wouldn’t be snobby for it. I’d tell they people who would actually care (cool people) my experiences and give them advice. We’d share our thoughts to accomplish things and so on…
That I’ve missed something important, and that I could have been so much more.
AM: lazy, fearful, silly, sensitive, held from reaching what I can because of something.
Best: winning, knowing I can achieve more than most
Shame: Getting and advantage and not using it. People having worse conditions and still beating me because they are driven and I’m soft.
Anxiety: What are the chances that I can be who I want to be when I grow up? Competition, can I reach my full potential? Am I too late?
Interesting, stressful, scary, wonderful, exciting, wish I could do more. I really need to prove myself.
1) I wish I could have someone who gets every bit of me and that I had athletic ability
2) I am thankful there is nothing I’m horrific at.
Read timeless's description, especially the parts about 3w4.
 
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It's not about how you appear, it's about what motivates you. Since you asked, here's what makes me think you can be a Three (3w4, to be exact):
Read timeless's description, especially the parts about 3w4.
Where does the image come in then? Don't they act to enhance themselves to enhance their image, hence the reasoning for the 3 looking in the mirror to see what could be? It is an image to succeed, and that is why they're acutely aware of how they look and are known to have a level of fluidity to their image, but how fluid this is varies from my experience.
 

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Where does the image come in then? Don't they act to enhance themselves to enhance their image, hence the reasoning for the 3 looking in the mirror to see what could be? It is an image to succeed, and that is why they're acutely aware of how they look and are known to have a level of fluidity to their image, but how fluid this is varies from my experience.
I think I don't quite understand your point. Three is an image type, yes, and this is the crucial part of their motivation. This image can be different, of course, and given that the OP is a Ni-dom, it's quite clear that she can relate to the descriptions of 4 and 5. I think it's very telling that she wrote "how I appear" instead of "how I am". I think that 3w4 is the most likely type here, probably 5-fixed (hence the need for being seen as knowledgeable).
 
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I think I don't quite understand your point. Three is an image type, yes, and this is the crucial part of their motivation. This image can be different, of course, and given that the OP is a Ni-dom, it's quite clear that she can relate to the descriptions of 4 and 5. I think it's very telling that she wrote "how I appear" instead of "how I am". I think that 3w4 is the most likely type here, probably 5-fixed (hence the need for being seen as knowledgeable).
You said that it was not about you she appears that plays into the Enneagram, but my point about the image fixation that 3s have is that it is about how they appear.

INTx always identify with 4 and 5.

I have great certainty that she is a 3.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I think I don't quite understand your point. Three is an image type, yes, and this is the crucial part of their motivation. This image can be different, of course, and given that the OP is a Ni-dom, it's quite clear that she can relate to the descriptions of 4 and 5. I think it's very telling that she wrote "how I appear" instead of "how I am". I think that 3w4 is the most likely type here, probably 5-fixed (hence the need for being seen as knowledgeable).
OK, honestly looking at type 3 is it seems to be me sometimes. But I really don't want to just appear knowledgeable, I need to be knowledgeable and along with this I'd feel ashamed if people didn't see this because I never can completely push people's opinions away. ( I wish I could though) And it would mean to me that I'm not knowledgeable. I think I was trying to hard to express myself and focused on one thing for some reason. (MAYBE I DID) But it's great that you mentioned type 3 because I never thought about that type enough. And I believe I am INxJ. Not necessarily INTx.
 

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You said that it was not about you she appears that plays into the Enneagram, but my point about the image fixation that 3s have is that it is about how they appear.

INTx always identify with 4 and 5.

I have great certainty that she is a 3.
Please, it would help me more if you took time to consider more factors than just a questionnaire. No matter what is says, for all you know I could have been in a different mood. Don't tell me your certain, it's way too early to be certain about much. Always? I don't really think any type always identifies with anything.
 

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It's not about how you appear, it's about what motivates you. Since you asked, here's what makes me think you can be a Three (3w4, to be exact):















Read timeless's description, especially the parts about 3w4.
Yes, I know, but I'm not sure what motivates me to a deeper level is really what motivates a 3. Although, I can understand much of the type 3 description, I admit it's quite possible. Studying more....
 

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@LilyAskar, I see you as very goal oriented, and not detached and focused on thought process to be a 5. I don't really see a whole lot of 4 in you past your abilities to express yourself, which points to 3w4. Mistyping shown below:
  • Type Five-Type Three
The principal reason these two very different types are confused is that some average Threes (especially if they are intelligent) would like to see themselves as "thinkers." Since Fives are most stereotypically seen as the "intelligent, thinking type," average Threes may choose it rather than the type they actually are. This misidentification is made almost exclusively by Threes since Fives are not likely to think that they are Threes. Average Threes are set up to fulfill the hidden expectations of their parents; so in a family that values intelligence, originality, and intellectual brilliance, it is quite natural for Threes to grow up thinking that they must be those things in order to be worthwhile. Thus, narrow conceptions of the types, or unflattering and unfair presentations of type Three in some Enneagram literature may cause some average Threes to want to be Fives.
Some Threes may well be thinkers and have original ideas; they may excel academically and be brilliant students. But these traits alone are not sufficient to be a Five. Once again, the root of the misidentification lies in focusing on one or two traits rather than considering the type as a whole, including its central motivations.
There are many significant dissimilarities between these two types. The kind of thinking they engage in is very different: Fives are very process-oriented: they do not care about final goals and can be extraordinarily involved in abstract ideas for the sake of acquiring knowledge, virtually as an end in itself. The pursuit and possession of knowledge enthralls Fives, and not only do their interests need have no practical results for them to be satisfying, average Fives are just as likely never to seek fame or fortune for their discoveries or creations. Fives follow their ideas wherever they take them, with no particular end in view. Their ideas need not even be related to making discoveries. Creating their own private inner realities can be reward enough. In any case, average Fives will stay with a project for years until they exhaust their subject or themselves, or both.
Threes, by contrast, are not usually involved in subjects for their own sake: they change their interests and careers rapidly if the success and recognition they seek elude them. Moreover, average Threes pursue their intellectual work with personal goals in mind (either consciously or unconsciously): to impress others, to be famous, to be known as best in their field, to be acclaimed as a genius, to beat a rival at a discovery, to win a prestigious prize or grant, and so forth. The essential consideration is that their intellectual work is frequently undertaken to achieve goals and garner recognition rather than for the love of knowledge and the excitement of intellectual discovery. In Threes, self-promotion and status-seeking elements can enter the picture. Average Threes tend to promote themselves and to talk about their brilliant achievements, whereas average Fives tend to be secretive and reticent about their work and discoveries. Furthermore, the pragmatic thinking of average Threes calculates how to achieve goals in the most efficient manner, something completely alien to impractical, curiosity-driven Fives.
In addition, Threes are highly sociable and well groomed: they know how to present themselves favorably. Fives are usually loners and often put little to no effort into their personal appearance: their appearance means less to them than pursuing their interests until the problems are solved and the work is done. Average Threes are highly aware of what others think about them, whereas average Fives care little about anyone else's good opinion. Average Threes want to be considered as sexually and socially desirable and will conform to and set social standards. Fives are often strange, eccentric, and isolated from others–not at all concerned about conforming to social standards. Contrast the personalities of Threes such as Michael Tilson Thomas and Carl Sagan with those of Fives such as Glenn Gould and Stanley Kubrick.
 

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@LilyAskar, I see you as very goal oriented, and not detached and focused on thought process to be a 5. I don't really see a whole lot of 4 in you past your abilities to express yourself, which points to 3w4. Mistyping shown below:
Feeling misunderstood about whatever I may have initially written on PerC to make people think that I only like learning because I have a goal to fulfill, and in fact that is so true which is what I meant by how I can totally understand how type 3’s feel. But my drive deep down isn’t this, it appears so because my family is what is described here and I don’t have much of a choice. But I do like learning about many things, (of course not about literally everything) but whenever I try to do anything intellectual beyond what I need for school my parents tell me it’s a waste of time (Like PerC) . But even so, I still have a thirst to do so many activities and always feel torn between what to do. Doesn’t this prove that my core motivations lies somewhere else? I like getting recognized for intellectual brilliance but I need to have it too you know… What type 3 wants seem to be so shallow…. What catches me is the fact that their image is important to them. The problem with me in finding my MBTI type is because I want to be a thinker and a feeler! I do not specifically seek to be a thinker. My parents always get mad at me because I get caught into going way too abstract in what I’m doing and that it’s not necessary for getting a good grade. In fact it’s my peers that seem to be looking for all kinds of goals, they are active and I just sit there and they think I’m lazy but in fact, I just somehow don’t see their actions as necessary somehow. What really strikes me here as maybe being a 3 is that I would seek fame to an extent, but that’s really not importance number 1. The fame and fortunes themselves, I want be that partially because it would be so fun to be around such cool people who’s very expressions are influenced by education…. But the thing is, I guess that’s a 3 thing. I needa study more…..
UGHHHHHHHHH reading the bottom half and knowing that the way I talk looks like a “3 product? Drives me nuts……. I hate my school….
underlined = NOT ME
bold = me

The principal reason these two very different types are confused is that some average Threes (especially if they are intelligent) would like to see themselves as "thinkers." Since Fives are most stereotypically seen as the "intelligent, thinking type," average Threes may choose it rather than the type they actually are. This misidentification is made almost exclusively by Threes since Fives are not likely to think that they are Threes. Average Threes are set up to fulfill the hidden expectations of their parents; so in a family that values intelligence, originality, and intellectual brilliance, it is quite natural for Threes to grow up thinking that they must be those things in order to be worthwhile. Thus, narrow conceptions of the types, or unflattering and unfair presentations of type Three in some Enneagram literature may cause some average Threes to want to be Fives. THIS SOUNDS LIKE MY FRIENDS
Some Threes may well be thinkers and have original ideas; they may excel academically and be brilliant students. But these traits alone are not sufficient to be a Five. Once again, the root of the misidentification lies in focusing on one or two traits rather than considering the type as a whole, including its central motivations.
There are many significant dissimilarities between these two types. The kind of thinking they engage in is very different: Fives are very process-oriented: they do not care about final goals and can be extraordinarily involved in abstract ideas for the sake of acquiring knowledge, virtually as an end in itself. The pursuit and possession of knowledge enthralls Fives, and not only do their interests need have no practical results for them to be satisfying, average Fives are just as likely never to seek fame or fortune for their discoveries or creations. Fives follow their ideas wherever they take them, with no particular end in view. Well, I don’t seek fame through my ideas. I like being called “smart” and that’s it. In fact I wish I had the drive of the people around me who are actually type 3’s without doubt. Their ideas need not even be related to making discoveries. Creating their own private inner realities can be reward enough. (To me, not quite satisfying enough. I just need people to know, but that’s it. ) In any case, average Fives will stay with a project for years until they exhaust their subject or themselves, or both. I’m too lazy for this.Threes, by contrast, are not usually involved in subjects for their own sake: they change their interests and careers rapidly if the success and recognition they seek elude them. Moreover, average Threes pursue their intellectual work with personal goals in mind (either consciously or unconsciously): to impress others, to be famous, to be known as best in their field, to be acclaimed as a genius, to beat a rival at a discovery, to win a prestigious prize or grant, and so forth. The essential consideration is that their intellectual work is frequently undertaken to achieve goals and garner recognition rather than for the love of knowledge and the excitement of intellectual discovery. In Threes, self-promotion and status-seeking elements can enter the picture. Average Threes tend to promote themselves and to talk about their brilliant achievements, whereas average Fives tend to be secretive and reticent about their work and discoveries. Furthermore, the pragmatic thinking of average Threes calculates how to achieve goals in the most efficient manner, something completely alien to impractical, curiosity-driven Fives.
In addition, Threes are highly sociable and well groomed: they know how to present themselves favorably. Fives are usually loners and often put little to no effort into their personal appearance: their appearance means less to them than pursuing their interests until the problems are solved and the work is done. Average Threes are highly aware of what others think about them, whereas average Fives care little about anyone else's good opinion. Average Threes want to be considered as sexually and socially desirable and will conform to and set social standards. Fives are often strange, eccentric, and isolated from others–not at all concerned about conforming to social standards. Contrast the personalities of Threes such as Michael Tilson Thomas and Carl Sagan with those of Fives such as Glenn Gould and Stanley Kubrick.
 

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@LilyAskar, I see you as very goal oriented, and not detached and focused on thought process to be a 5. I don't really see a whole lot of 4 in you past your abilities to express yourself, which points to 3w4. Mistyping shown below:
I really would consider myself who is goal oriented deep down but is failing at that at the moment. Not detached? Maybe I just perk up on the forum or something. I don't know. Usually at school, (my only "work place") I don't pay attention to 90% of what's going on overall and promise myself that I'll make-up study at home (which I end up never doing) because I like delving into my thoughts during class. Many teachers get annoyed when I turn up later with questions that make the situations obvious. So annoyinggggg
 

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Maybe, I’m a five who’s true self is being suppressed by a forced “3-image” and ends up looking like a 4 who wants to counter the culture….or something. For your information I know nothing about enneagrams. Maybe I’m not a 5…because whatever by MBTI is, it’s probably not something common because I don’t belong anywhere. Not everyone is the “perfect” xxxx but… It’s worse with me somehow. I somehow don’t think I’m an INTJ type 5. Maybe I’m an INFJ afterall…. But I’m not that mismatched either! Oh, I don’t know. And then there’s type 6… Someone told me I act like one, I should go find out about that now.
 

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Where does the image come in then? Don't they act to enhance themselves to enhance their image, hence the reasoning for the 3 looking in the mirror to see what could be? It is an image to succeed, and that is why they're acutely aware of how they look and are known to have a level of fluidity to their image, but how fluid this is varies from my experience.
I agree with this.
 

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Primo: every type can be intellectual. It's not limited to Fives. I like gaining knowledge, I value independent thinking and rationality, I'm highly curious, yet I'm not a Five.

Secundo: Threes and their goals are not shallow.

Tertio: things you bolded and underlined point to 3 rather than 5. It's interesting that you bolded the part "Fives are just as likely never to seek fame or fortune for their discoveries or creations", while just a few paragraphs above you wrote about wanting to be recognised.

I can't relate to many traits associated with my type either, and at first glance I thought I was a Five. What helped me, was to focus on negative traits rather than positive and look at integration-disintegration lines.

Three (integrates to 6, disintegrates to 9)
Type 3
Underlying motive: Advancement, Ambition
Strives for: High Status, Good Image
When healthy: Cooperative, Caring
When stressed: Disengaged, Apathetic
Five (integrates to 8, disintegrates to 7)
Type 5
Underlying motive: Curiosity, Development
Strives for: Knowledge, Innovation
When healthy: Confident, Decisive
When stressed: Hyperactive, Scattered
FWIW, in my opinion you're a 3w4 who experiences the connection to 9 under stress:
These include the apathetic “give up” attitude that some Type Nines can acquire. If a Type Three is blocked from success for whatever reason, they are at risk of developing this mentality.
 

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Primo: every type can be intellectual. It's not limited to Fives. I like gaining knowledge, I value independent thinking and rationality, I'm highly curious, yet I'm not a Five.

Secundo: Threes and their goals are not shallow.

Tertio: things you bolded and underlined point to 3 rather than 5. It's interesting that you bolded the part "Fives are just as likely never to seek fame or fortune for their discoveries or creations", while just a few paragraphs above you wrote about wanting to be recognised.

I can't relate to many traits associated with my type either, and at first glance I thought I was a Five. What helped me, was to focus on negative traits rather than positive and look at integration-disintegration lines.

Three (integrates to 6, disintegrates to 9)


Five (integrates to 8, disintegrates to 7)


FWIW, in my opinion you're a 3w4 who experiences the connection to 9 under stress:
Everything sounds like me *boom*.
Elaborate more aon me being a 3.
 

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Here you are:

From this thread:
Heart triad types have a lot of struggle with self-image issues. There tends to be a concern with the persona, and the real self can be subconsciously substituted with the persona that will get them the most approval. On the "On All Fours" mp3 that Katherine and David Fauvre put out, they state (quoting Thomas Condon, IIRC) "in order to be loved for who I am, I must pretend to be what I am not." This is the key struggle for image types. They experience love as conditional, and think that one's true self can't be loved, so they must "put on" a more acceptable persona. Imagine being a kid and getting the lead in the school play. While you're on stage, your parents are in the front row. You see them, watching you. If you do well, you hear them praise you and brag about you to their friends, but there's this sense that it's the performance that is being rewarded, not you as a person. This is most intense in three. [...] However the image issues manifest, in each case, the goal is to be adequately mirrored and validated in some way.
3 is an image type. 5 is a head type. In my opinion, you're way more focused on how others perceive you than your anxiety or fears. 5 seeks knowledge to build a wall between them and the outer world. 3 seeks knowledge to be seen as knowledgeable.

Can you relate to this paragraph? Oh, and read the 3 subforum; you might be interested in this thread. And this.
 

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Here you are:

From this thread:


3 is an image type. 5 is a head type. In my opinion, you're way more focused on how others perceive you than your anxiety or fears. 5 seeks knowledge to build a wall between them and the outer world. 3 seeks knowledge to be seen as knowledgeable.

Can you relate to this paragraph? Oh, and read the 3 subforum; you might be interested in this thread. And this.
Again, this paragraph makes me feel like a "fake 3" because I feel like I've pretended to be someone I'm not in the past because I was stressed by parents and such... They didn't mean to. It wasn't done out of my own accord like some kids. Reading the other stuff now, maybe I'll relate there?
 
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