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...find that you are painfully aware of social hierarchies within your work/school?
For instance, I'm friendly and talk to mostly everyone, but at the same time I can clearly see who is on what social level and can easily gauge who to talk to in order to achieve a certain 'position.' It kind of makes me sick, but it seems like a necessary evil at the same time. Ugh, anyone know what I'm talking about?
 

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Yes. Well, my 4w3 So sister. ^_^ She can instantly spot the social hierarchies. She easily sees cliques.
 

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Yes! I even remember being able to identify cliques in my Middle School. I mostly used that observation to see which group I would most fit in with/ would want to avoid.
 

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I'm an INFJ 4w3 sp/sx and I don't relate at all to the idea of understanding social hierarchies and my place in them. It isn't important to me, either. Maybe this just shows I really do have so last?
 

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I am very aware of social heirchies and cliches. However, I never use them to get anywhere. I tend to avoid them. I'm a 4x3, INFP. That might be the difference. I can't stand the whole heirchy or cliche thing. That makes me sick.
 

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I think I'm a little aware of them. I used them to avoid the popular people because they were too shallow and to avoid the less popular people because they'd just make me unpopular (I'm still ashamed of myself because of the latter) - it's not because I wanted to be popular, I just wanted (and want) to stay in the middle. Well, except for one year of my life where I tried to blend in with the popular people (also ashamed).

It's not that hard to find out who's popular, though; it all comes down to stupidity, loudness, wealthiness, handsomeness and ownership of brand-name clothing - the more a person possesses those "qualities", the more popular the person is.
 

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Thank you for this thread. My entire life I've been hyper aware of social dynamics and hiearchies. I think it's a combination of 4w3 and so instict. I can both hate the group and want to be part of it; aware of who has power and see why it's bullshit, and yet still want in; I can distance myself from the "game" while still wanting to be accepted, and I can be accepted and enjoy the benefits of the game while feeling I'm riding the crest of a "lie". Does this make sense? There's this weird dual thing going on all the time, the part of me that's all in and the part of me that is observing searching for authenticity. I have a hard time staying in a group if it feels fake, I'll just watch from the side-lines then, but I never enjoy myself as a bystander, so I'm always looking for my place or my people.

I also can see how hierchies are formed and what is valued or what tricks or assumptions allowed certain people to have 'status' and others not... and I'm not saying I see that and co-opt the traits that got status if I find them false. Instead I either shake my head in disgust or attempt to change the game by shaking things up a little so different qualities will get status. Not saying this always works, a lot of time it doesn't, probably cause I'm lacking the skills and the patience.
 

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Yes, I'm exactly the same way. I can never place where I stand in the hierarchy, though. Just everyone else.
Intersting, not so with me. I am only placing where others are in the hiearchy to find where I am. Everyone else exists in relation to me in my mind ahaha. Maybe that's the difference between being an Fi-dom and then being a dominant perciever (ne).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you for this thread. My entire life I've been hyper aware of social dynamics and hiearchies. I think it's a combination of 4w3 and so instict. I can both hate the group and want to be part of it; aware of who has power and see why it's bullshit, and yet still want in; I can distance myself from the "game" while still wanting to be accepted, and I can be accepted and enjoy the benefits of the game while feeling I'm riding the crest of a "lie". Does this make sense? There's this weird dual thing going on all the time, the part of me that's all in and the part of me that is observing searching for authenticity. I have a hard time staying in a group if it feels fake, I'll just watch from the side-lines then, but I never enjoy myself as a bystander, so I'm always looking for my place or my people.

I also can see how hierchies are formed and what is valued or what tricks or assumptions allowed certain people to have 'status' and others not... and I'm not saying I see that and co-opt the traits that got status if I find them false. Instead I either shake my head in disgust or attempt to change the game by shaking things up a little so different qualities will get status. Not saying this always works, a lot of time it doesn't, probably cause I'm lacking the skills and the patience.
This is what I was getting at. I can pretty much relate to everything you said, especially the part about "shaking up the game." I hate having to or feeling like I have to be mean or nice to certain people because of the dynamics within the group.
 

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Thank you for this thread. My entire life I've been hyper aware of social dynamics and hiearchies. I think it's a combination of 4w3 and so instict. I can both hate the group and want to be part of it; aware of who has power and see why it's bullshit, and yet still want in; I can distance myself from the "game" while still wanting to be accepted, and I can be accepted and enjoy the benefits of the game while feeling I'm riding the crest of a "lie". Does this make sense? There's this weird dual thing going on all the time, the part of me that's all in and the part of me that is observing searching for authenticity. I have a hard time staying in a group if it feels fake, I'll just watch from the side-lines then, but I never enjoy myself as a bystander, so I'm always looking for my place or my people.

I also can see how hierchies are formed and what is valued or what tricks or assumptions allowed certain people to have 'status' and others not... and I'm not saying I see that and co-opt the traits that got status if I find them false. Instead I either shake my head in disgust or attempt to change the game by shaking things up a little so different qualities will get status. Not saying this always works, a lot of time it doesn't, probably cause I'm lacking the skills and the patience.
This is very well said. It makes perfect sense. I have felt the same way. I have been in many newly formed groups and just watched the group dynamics change. For example, I have seen people who would voice a different opinion when a person of "authority" or who is very vocal and has a deep voice (male or female) walks in. I've seen them just submit to the "alpha" male or female. It just seems so weird to me. That's because I'm always on the outside of the group somehow, looking in, observing the group dynamics as if not part of the group. I find group dynamics to be very interesting.

But yes, I'm always on the look for a group that I can be a part of. I go to a number of discussion groups on Life, Buddha, Poetry...it seems really hard to find a group I like. I'm very critical, for example, if the people seem to be really on the fringe people. That's terrible that I'm so judgemental like that. It's like, I don't want to be with "fringe" people, but they are the only ones who seem to discuss the things I like to discuss. I have found a few groups that have "middle of the road" people. These are my own terms that I use.
 

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I am very aware of it. I don't find it difficult at all, I see who's the popular ones and I understand when someone is considered unpopular. But it's also easy for me to spot hidden conflicts and motives in a group that is on a higher social level. I know who should be thankful for being considered part of the group, I know who's the leader, even if it's not given. Yeah, things like that.

But just like @viva, I'm never sure of where I stand. It's annoying and can cause lots of anxiety.
 

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of course! i immediately assess hierarchies in every social situation and assume my inferior status because obvs no one cool would ever talk to ME, right??
 

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I used to care about this a lot in middle school (extremely annoyed at myself, I promise) but as I go through high school, I notice a lot of mixing...like there are groups of similar people but they mingle with others too. I used to judge people as the same depending on what group they're in, but whenever I pre-judge someone in a Sensor way, I am always wrong! (just going by group and how they seem at first). People are always smarter than I believe, nicer than I believe, meaner than I believe, etc. Now I just talk to everyone and ignore the hierarchy thing (and the back w3 so part of my mind that's telling me not to) and just look at the individual and see who they really are, because that's all that it really comes down to, right?
 

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I'm INFP 4w3 SX/SP
And , i don't understand about social hierarchies tbh. it makes me unaware about social conditions tbh. Maybe , my So blindness.
I don't join any groups and I always be a loner wolf tbh. BBut , i never want to join into groups. Coz . join into groups makes me feel tired and i'm awkward to groups than 1-1 conversation.
Coz that , i ever mistyped to be 4w5.
 
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