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I've noticed many 4w5s are convincingly dismissive, and almost disdainful towards acknowledging physical beauty, while most 4w3s seem to relish and indulge in it to some extent. Even the 4w3s who dismiss it as shallow still seem to show an obvious fascination with being hot:




Are there 4w3s who don't care at all?
 

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I try not to be.

I have an OkCupid account that says I shouldn't be, but if I'm not feeling insecure about something yet, Looks are a good fallback. Which is hilarious, considering I spend a thick chunk of time worrying about the things I've gotten and gotten away with simply because of my appearance, and how much that detracts from my self-value.

"Was I actually dominating that one-on-one, or were they just imagining how I'd look strung up on a queen-sized mattress?" type of thing.
 

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I have both wings an I am neurotically obsessed with how I look. I am quite superficial and have a hard time appreciating "modern art". Aesthetics seem to be my #1 value.
 

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I dress plainly. I don't like to draw attention to myself in that way. If someone finds me attractive, they'll find me attractive, and it won't be because of the clothing I wear or my specific hair style. I don't wear clothing with holes or anything, but I'm not concerned with buying expensive stuff or having a complex wardrobe or being completely clean shaven every day.

That said, I of course have an appreciation for physical beauty, but it's not my focus at all.
 

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I'm still a little iffy on my wing. Re: attractiveness, it depends on my mood that specific day.
 

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Ooh, yessir. That Morrissey... *AHEM*

I know you're asking about physical beauty, but that form of beauty doesn't stand out among general beauty/attractivity for us.

A 4's focus is to be valuable and self-satisfied. Beauty (in its many forms) is an important tool of attraction to humans; it's worshiped in many societies. 4s will often use it to satisfy themselves, approaching it through either the gratification end (4w3) or the technical end (4w5).

Speaking generally, I can't say 4w3s are simply fixated on physical allure. 4w3s, and 4w5s, are generally fixated on complements to their senses of pleasure, with physical allure being but one station.

As a 4w3, for instance, I like demonstrative beauty (voice, theater, rhetoric, martial arts) as much as I like sexual beauty. 4w3s focus on pleasures/beauty immediately gratifying to the senses. Thus, it can seem sexiness is a recurring thing with us when it's just one of several immediately gratifying outlets. We commit to said outlets with confidence and raw gusto, amassing method from every experience.

4w5s begin from a place more executively inclined. They make their pleasures tactful to enhance their "gratifying" image (4w3s recognize the gratification to be used, and make it sufficiently tactful as they go along). They make use of technical means of making artful impressions. It's more detailed/withdrawn than immediate gratification, so 4w5s are less innately passionate about the immediate than 4w3s. Concerned with beauty/attraction thru their technical outlets, their passion for beauty is redirected, perhaps, towards beauty's chemistry.

So, here we have: Chemical Reaction vs. Chemistry. If you find 4w3s that don't care, maybe they have low libido. Y'know, if sexual energy isn't among their sources of immediate gratification.
 

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I think I might be more 4w5 than 4w3. However, in women, I don't find good looks attractive as such; I know it's not very 'scientific' of me, but if I see a beautiful soul shine through, THAT'S what attracts me - I barely even see the person, because the soul is blinding like a bright light.

Obviously, I want people to fall for me in the same way, and NOT based on my looks. However, I still like the flattery of someone else admiring my looks - but only people whom I'm not romantically interested in. I would actually be disappointed, if someone whom I was romantically interested in was commenting on my looks in a positive way, because I'd want them to see beyond that.
 

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At 72, I have a deviated septum from Bell's palsey several years ago, teeth that show their age, scars here and there, "liver spots" on my hands and walk with a cane.
if I am going out I shower, rub my hand on my chin, and decide if I can go another day without shaving. (by "going out" i mean to Walmart, the county co-op for sunflower seed, to the hardware store.)
Physical beauty? Attractiveness? HARDYHARHARHAR
Nah - i am not concerned. I Just double check to be sure my fly is zipped. and that my shoes match.:laughing:
 

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I wish that I didn't care about my appearance. As a teenager I spent a lot of time pretending that I didn't, but I really, really do and always have. It used to baffle my mother, how much I'd beat myself up and nitpick at myself in terms of the way I looked. I remember her telling me "Nobody ever notices those things in other people!" and thinking immediately "Um, yes... some of us do."

I'm not beautiful by any stretch of the imagination, but I do put a lot of thought and effort into my appearance for the most part in a really 4w3ish attempt to express myself (really, what I take to be my ideal persona) through my external appearance. I am not obviously vain -- there are very few people who are privy to my secret little obsession and I'm not the kind of person who would never be seen in public without makeup (although I was like that as a teenager).

@kaleidoscope and I have discussed this before -- when I'm picking out clothes I'll actually think (either consciously or subconsciously) about whether they correspond to who I want to be seen as, which is really silly and vain because I know for a fact that nobody spends that much time thinking about my appearance except me. If I happen to have an off day and buy something that I don't feel aligns with the person I want to be seen as, I'll rarely wear it and when I do, have a vague pout going on about absolutely nothing in particular (except for my persona/clothes mismatch).

I think I might be more 4w5 than 4w3. However, in women, I don't find good looks attractive as such; I know it's not very 'scientific' of me, but if I see a beautiful soul shine through, THAT'S what attracts me - I barely even see the person, because the soul is blinding like a bright light.

Obviously, I want people to fall for me in the same way, and NOT based on my looks. However, I still like the flattery of someone else admiring my looks - but only people whom I'm not romantically interested in. I would actually be disappointed, if someone whom I was romantically interested in was commenting on my looks in a positive way, because I'd want them to see beyond that.
This resonates with me a lot.

In spite of how "shallow" I can be about my own appearance, I'm really not that concerned about the way that my partners look. I've consistently been better looking than the people I've been with and that hasn't bothered me one bit. It's important for me to be physically attracted to someone in a general sense, but that usually stems from a prior intellectual attraction to someone's mind or how they make me feel (aka ~special~) and I actually take a lot of (weird) pride in that.

In spite of how important my appearance is to me, though, I feel really cheap when people give me physical compliments. I've always wanted someone to be so enthralled by me and everything that encompasses that they wouldn't even notice my looks, like they were just kind of a bonus.

I did have a strange experience with a friend once, though, when he'd told me about how attracted to me he was in spite of my looks and I was so insulted that he killed any burgeoning feelings I'd had from him.

And with my current partner, when he once told me that physically I wasn't his ~ideal woman~. The last one I will never completely forgive him for, even though it was completely relevant to our conversation and he did mean it in the way that I thought I wanted to hear it. We were talking about attraction and he was telling me that I was so fascinating to him that it didn't matter to him that I wasn't his ~ideal woman~ and I was surprised by how much it hurt me (I mean, I dyed my hair red about a year after meeting him because I knew he was very into redheads).

So basically, I'm just impossible to please and I will never again have either of those conversations because either way I'm going to be disappointed with the response.
 

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My main issues with my looks have been more centered around my weight; I've always been on the chubby side (especially thighs), and while it used to (and still does) make me feel really insecure at times, a friend of mine surprised me recently by telling me he admired me for being so comfortable with my body despite not being supermodel thin. It made me happy, because how I felt on the inside didn't show on the outside.

Physical features wise, I can find myself ugly as hell or pretty depending on my mood. There's no rhyme or reason to it. I can be extremely picky about the smallest things. For example, I have a small nose, and everyone comments on how cute it is, but I fixate a lot on how it looks better from one angle than the other. The rational side of me knows that people don't even notice these things, but I'm very critical regardless, and I'm not sure I can stop. At the same time, I also really like certain parts of me, like my eyes or smile. It's a strange mix, and it results in oscillating from confidence to self-loathing, constantly.

@knittigan

In spite of how "shallow" I can be about my own appearance, I'm really not that concerned about the way that my partners look. I've consistently been better looking than the people I've been with and that hasn't bothered me one bit. It's important for me to be physically attracted to someone in a general sense, but that usually stems from a prior intellectual attraction to someone's mind or how they make me feel (aka ~special~) and I actually take a lot of (weird) pride in that.
This is very similar to how I feel about this. I don't get attracted to others in the physical sense, though. Personality characteristics and attitude/intelligence turn me on so much more than say, a person's body. Feeling special and unique is also so much more important to me. I have to be a special snowflake in my partner's eyes ;)
 

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I've noticed many 4w5s are convincingly dismissive, and almost disdainful towards acknowledging physical beauty, while most 4w3s seem to relish and indulge in it to some extent. Even the 4w3s who dismiss it as shallow still seem to show an obvious fascination with being hot:




Are there 4w3s who don't care at all?
It's not as important as inner beauty, but I still can't say I'm totally unconcerned about physical beauty. Or about the fact that I don't like my body.
 
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Hmmm. I would say I am not disdainful of it. I do however see it as rather silly and arbitrary. I actually think taking pride in your appearance is admirable. I personally take pride in mine, which is why I am kind of 4wB, although the 5 seems to be more apparent in me. If I have time, or a reason, I enjoy being well-dressed, but I wouldn't mind running out the door to class in gym shorts and a T.

When it comes to just physical beauty, I still respect that if they don't fuck it up with an unbecoming personality trait. Beauty is made to be admired, it has no other use than that. If you have truly stunning looks, go ahead and put all your time into them and allow yourself to be intensely admired. I'm naturally a good critical thinker, reader, writer and speaker so I put most of my time into these things, they are useful so no use in admiring them. Useful things need to be put to use, so I use them wherever I go to do useful things. So, I become a lawyer and not a model. Although I do like to create beautiful words with my skills that can exist for no other reason than to be admired. Or I could not if I so pleased and just use my skills to do other useful things.

Either way I do take pride in my appearance and see physical beauty, male or female, as something that is not inherently bad and what I call true physical beauty is actually a result of virtue in my opinion. Although I think that everyone that eats right, exercises, sleeps right and is generally healthy will at least have a healthy look to them. That is all that is nessecary when I say taking pride in appearance. Dress well and you are set to go. The true beauty I am talking about has to be based on natural beauty. Otherwise you just have good looks. Which is not inherently bad, but it is not the same and is not necessarily natural. Taking care of yourself is part of loving yourself. Exercise, eating right, good sleep and keeping yourself healthy are part of taking care of yourself.
 

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I generally don't pay too much attention to the way I dress; although sometimes, if I am in a rush, I have been known to have my shirt inside out and non-matching socks but there are times when I actually enjoy getting dressed up but never in anything formal but in some Asian-inspired or peasant type of outfit. I insist on being comfortable as much as possible but I do enjoy aesthetically pleasing designs and bright colours.
@knittigan, that friend of yours, is a moron for telling you that. People are extremely sensitive to comments about physical appearance. I have this friend who's friend took some extremely unflattering pics of him - he is generally fairly attractive. I made the mistake of commenting on them and he became very defensive so I dropped it. I once had this blind date with this guy who was hyper self-conscious about tiny facial scars due to having had adolescent acne. When I actually met him, while I did notice the scars - and only because he had made such a federal case about it - I was nevertheless shocked, at how someone as extremely good looking as he was; could be so insecure about his looks. I suspect that anyone who isn't somewhat sensitive regarding remarks about their appearance is probably lying. So now, if I don't have anything positive to say about it; I just zip it.
 
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I mostly feel envy of people who are more attractive than I am. But I don't actually think it's too important. I see myself caring for how I look in ocassions, like how I exercise to stay fit, how I shave often or how I always check my hair before going out (even though the wind is often like "Oh hey hair, fuck you. Woooosh~"). But I think I've made it part of my identity to be casually dressed, with a natural look. Also, I tell myself that what people find attractive is different from person to person. What I may see as good-looking will be just average for someone else and they'll find someone who I think is just "ok" hot. So I can't ever really appear attractive to everyone I meet, but neither does it mean that what I think of myself actually reflects the opinions of others.

Good looks in another person are a plus but of course they are not worth much if there isn't a mind behind it that makes it interesting.
 

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I totally care. That said I want to be attractive in a way I find authentic to me.

I care about my personal style. I like compliments on my appearance and style. I don't like going out if I'm not styled the way I want. Style isn't a get-hair-done-make-up thing, it's literally a way of life... I have a low maintenance style. I've had multiple incarnations of style and while maybe some people feel I look pretty much the same, other times I get feedback that they make you look really different. At the very least they mean something different to me. Every time I make a mental change or want to split myself off from the past I change my style. For me, it is making a new person. Information from others can rattle me but in the end I try to just focus on how I view how I look. When I make art, no one's opinion REALLY matters but mine; no one sees how I see; I try to focus on that way of seeing when I think about my appearance.
 

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I wish I didn't care, but I'm always aware of the way I look and what impression I might be giving to people. At the same time, I don't find the society's definition of beauty very attractive. I have my own standards, and I strive to be unique in my own attempts at emulating that standard.
 
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