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In all 4w3 descriptions, it implies they are flamboyant, overly dramatic and apparently more emotionally expressive than 4w5s. I'm not one to put much faith in descriptions, but so far the 4w3s I have met in life have lived up to their, well...reputation.

I'm kind of torn between many types(3w4, 4w5, 4wX,(balanced wings),5w4, even 7w6 and 5w6) right now. In the past I had never considered 4w3, even though my biggest longing is to obtain perfect authenticity and go beyond all uniqueness possible(without one erasing the other) for the sake of maintaining my identity, meaning something in life, ridding myself of all shame(satisfaction in self). I have an ambitious side(3) and a need to know everything there is to know in domains of my interests as well as in things that can get me "prepared" for the "real world"(5)(because honestly I feel like I can't handle life right now, or never...).

So yeah, in spite of my initial dismissal of 4w3, I am considering it now. So I need all 4w3s to tell me how dosed with withdrawal they are. I, personally, could be called Mrs Recluse because my withdrawing needs are extreme. Any 4w3s that are excessively withdrawn?
 

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I am a 4w3, but I think my withdrawn tendencies are more due to my variant stacking of sp/sx. I tend to be quiet and I'm bad at small talk and avoid it when possible. When I know someone well or meet someone very emotionally open, I tend to be very open myself, though. I do sometimes like to be the center of attention and have no fear of public speaking, though I seem shy to most people (and have some avoidance of some social situations due to anxiety). I also have some ambitions like 3's tend to have. Those goals usually relate to self-expression and are creative, like often is the case with 4's. But I think it's definitely possible for a 4w3 to have withdrawn tendencies.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I am a 4w3, but I think my withdrawn tendencies are more due to my variant stacking of sp/sx. I tend to be quiet and I'm bad at small talk and avoid it when possible. When I know someone well or meet someone very emotionally open, I tend to be very open myself, though. I do sometimes like to be the center of attention and have no fear of public speaking, though I seem shy to most people (and have some avoidance of some social situations due to anxiety). I also have some ambitions like 3's tend to have. Those goals usually relate to self-expression and are creative, like often is the case with 4's. But I think it's definitely possible for a 4w3 to have withdrawn tendencies.
That does sound like me...open but withdrawn, cool when it comes to talk in front of many people(theatre, dance(before), etc.) but terribly avoidant in social situations(I too had social anxiety all my life--fortunately, it disappeared once I've started university, though I am still sort of uncomfortable when meeting people/have no clue what to talk about)... My goals or Three-traits are also focused on self-expression. Thanks for posting, it helps me erase my 4w3-bias... :)

Question: Even though you're a 4w3, do you still feel as though the other wing(Five) is strong in you? I ask because I feel my wing five and wing three are almost equally strong... I think the w5 is dominant but it could be the other way around. Or maybe I have no dominant wings.
 

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That does sound like me...open but withdrawn, cool when it comes to talk in front of many people(theatre, dance(before), etc.) but terribly avoidant in social situations(I too had social anxiety all my life--fortunately, it disappeared once I've started university, though I am still sort of uncomfortable when meeting people/have no clue what to talk about)... My goals or Three-traits are also focused on self-expression. Thanks for posting, it helps me erase my 4w3-bias... :)

Question: Even though you're a 4w3, do you still feel as though the other wing(Five) is strong in you? I ask because I feel my wing five and wing three are almost equally strong... I think the w5 is dominant but it could be the other way around. Or maybe I have no dominant wings.
I enjoy intellectual topics and sometimes come across like Spock when I'm arguing, if I'm upset. I am very reflective like 5's can be. However, I don't think my 5 wing is very strong. I am not intellectual in the same way and can't hide my emotions usually. I don't know how to emotionally separate myself from a situation or person.
 

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That does sound like me...open but withdrawn, cool when it comes to talk in front of many people(theatre, dance(before), etc.) but terribly avoidant in social situations(I too had social anxiety all my life--fortunately, it disappeared once I've started university, though I am still sort of uncomfortable when meeting people/have no clue what to talk about)... My goals or Three-traits are also focused on self-expression. Thanks for posting, it helps me erase my 4w3-bias... :)

Question: Even though you're a 4w3, do you still feel as though the other wing(Five) is strong in you? I ask because I feel my wing five and wing three are almost equally strong... I think the w5 is dominant but it could be the other way around. Or maybe I have no dominant wings.
I'm an INFP 4w5 Sp/Sx with two strong auxiliaries they are E + T.

Although double wings are uncommon, you could totally be one. Sure sounds like it to be honest. You can go into cerebral "download of information" mode like the 5?
Do you have some of the restless energy of the 3?

Question, when you create, do you create (being creative) only for the sake of creating OR do you also have the receptive audience in mind? 4w3's do more of the secondary.
 

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I'm an INFP 4w5 Sp/Sx with two strong auxiliaries they are E + T.

Although double wings are uncommon, you could totally be one. Sure sounds like it to be honest. You can go into cerebral "download of information" mode like the 5?
Do you have some of the restless energy of the 3?

Question, when you create, do you create (being creative) only for the sake of creating OR do you also have the receptive audience in mind? 4w3's do more of the secondary.
I both enjoy creating for the sake of creating and also always think about what other people will think of my work and want to create something that will be appreciated by others. I like sharing my work. I'm a 4w3, btw. So I guess I'm saying what you said rings true to me about a 4w3's tendency to consider what others will think of their creation.
 

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yes i withdraw, i think i withdraw more than i should. i want to be around people but i always end up backing away. i will have my moments where i open up and then once i feel like ive maybe said to much i will withdraw and sometimes its for a long time. its weird for being an enfp i do prefer to be alone, i just feel almost safer withdrawing from the cruel world lol its like i protect myself that way, but i always end up feeling lonely, and unable to connect. i dont feel like i connect with many people, i only have a couple people i talk to, i dont even try to talk to people it seems. so i withdraw from the world and i guess i like it that way, but i always long to be able to be around others. idk does that make sense? thats another reason why i withdraw, i dont seem to commuicate well. oh well.. withdrawing...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm an INFP 4w5 Sp/Sx with two strong auxiliaries they are E + T.

Although double wings are uncommon, you could totally be one. Sure sounds like it to be honest. You can go into cerebral "download of information" mode like the 5?
Do you have some of the restless energy of the 3?.
Yes. I am a knowledge seeking girl. I need it for erasing my uncertainities, incompetence, to help my self-expression.(Mostly information on writing matters, which is the door to my self-expression. Some techniques in domains I have to master before creating and being competent. Well...I create regardless of how advanced I am in my knowledge, but it makes me feel competent to know more. I am certainly not dependant on knowledge to create--I would disgust myself if that was the case because in a way, knowledge destroys creativity.). I need to know many things on life to be able to handle it, to live my life(Which I will never do, but...). I want to become an expert on my selected hobbies/passion. Being an extremly curious, even nosy,girl only feeds my need for information more. The more I know the better I feel.

As for energy, well...that would depend. I am very determined, so I can manage to accomplish random things when occasional burst of energy pop in. My pride can result into my huge pig-headedness. However, those moments are rather rare. Just interacting with the world for five minutes drains me. Just having to work drains me because I find it meaningless. Lots of self-repulsion comes with forcing myself to do "obligations" come. Moods have a lot of influence on me. Everything has to "feel right", whatever my definition of right at the time is. But, when I'm by myself, in my Nymma bubble, I can sit and write and read and reasearch forever. I hate intrusions. They pain my psyche. I love being on my Recluse Tower. Should I mention that I am a huge procrastinator? So, to answer your question, well, I have no energy in"the real world" but have tons in my world.

Question, when you create, do you create (being creative) only for the sake of creating OR do you also have the receptive audience in mind? 4w3's do more of the secondary.
I create for creating's sake. Even if there was no one else to see my creations, I would still do it. In fact, I am quite reculant to show my creations, for various reasons. One, well, I don't think that what I do will ever be good enough for me and I don't want to show stuff that isn't good enough. Second, well, I feel as though what I create is...private. While I feel the need to expres myself, and often share without intending to share(I honestly cannot help myself--my psychee needs to get out of me!), I want to keep certain parts of myself..to myself. I feel like some things are too rich to get out of me. Third, well, I'm afraid that someone will steal my ideas so I sometimes only share my crappiest ones with others. I am deathly afraid of being phlagiarized or involuntarily phlagiarizing myself. I would die if I ever come up with something I didn't know someone else had already created. I don't want to be compared.

I don't really care all that much for recognition. Well, no that isn't exactly true. The best way to put it would be saying I have a love and hate relationship with recognition. I just need ME to applaud...me, if that makes sense. Then I will be satisfied, regardless of what others think, because only my standards of creativity matter. But what complicates matters is that I want to deliver a message to...the planet. I feel like it is my destiny to find meaning through my creations and deliver it, sharing my unique perspectives to humanity. So for this to happen I need recognition...

It's like Vanity's minion is inside me, twirling everything around. I hate vanity yet I am it. yet I am its opposite. I crave merited credits, but I am disdainful to this desire. I long for sefl-satisfaction, but thinks that self-satiscfation is a sign of fake creativity because genuine creativity goes beyond human abilities. Yet I seek it. But hope it won't make me a fake. Vanity, the need for it, the repulsion of it, the awareness of everything I am not, of everything I could but won't be, of what is lacking to find satisfcation and true connection with myself...

Well, can anyone make sense of this mess of a post?
 

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I'm a 4w3 INFP.

Being a 4w3 has really helped me in the social department. In younger years while being extremely introverted I was compelled at the same time to be included socially. This forced me to deal with my debilitating social awkwardness and low self esteem. This took the form of going to lots of parties in young adulthood (alcohol helped get me talking) and even taking a job as a commission sales person at an electronics store. While not necessarily the healthiest way to go, it worked for me. Unless you know me EXTREMELY well, you would assume I was an E. I make a huge effort to get out of my shell, but I would still rather be at home, at a coffee shop, or in the mountains in the quiet before anywhere else.

I've always been a bit vain and self-centered. The truth hurts. *wince*. I've always been compelled to take extremely good care of my body, health, and also my emotional health.
When I was younger I was so shy and reserved I incorrectly thought being pretty was the only way I could get attention. Unfortunately this grew into an unhealthy personality shaper and was used as a crutch until recently.

At work I'm driven to standout in an understated way. I love attention but it makes me uncomfortable. I work hard so I dont fall behind and be ignored or considered insignificant. Unfortunately my "image" is important to me and I work on making it what I want it to be constantly. I get really uptight and defensive if someone questions my ability to do something. I can be extremely competitive, especially with people my own age.

Boy, these self-revealing posts are never much fun. :S Hope it helped though.
 

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I'm an ENFP 4w3, but I act a lot like an introvert. I switch between being the life of the party or the center of attention and quiet observation, or withdrawing into my smart phone. I try to find ways of excusing myself for leaving all the time, and I'm usually the first one who wants to go home after the party. My ISTP boyfriend has more friends, and is much more socially active than I am as far as wanting to hang out with friends, going to parties etc. I need a lot of space, and a lot of the time I just prefer to stay at home.
 

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ok, I think I'm a 4w3 and this is how it looks with me...
I withdraw when I'm hurt or when I have a low energylevel. If people had hurt me really hard I just drop them (for weeks...) and it seems for them like I'm not on the planet any more - but I need the time to gain clarity and lick my wounds ;).

Right now it is so that when I'm in company it is because I conciously decided to do so - I don't go anymore to social events because I have to go and that are likely to bore me. And then if the choosen company are unknown people then I put a mask on and "perform", do smalltalk and so on. Very nice and friendly and I perceive people like me - BUT if it is company that I don't like really much/I have no connection to/no common interesting topic... this smalltalk sucks really much energy out of me. After that I need a day with really few social interaction...

Most people would type me as an extrovert, but I think I'm introverted (INFP). I act very extroverted when I want to but it's more a fassade - it costs much energy.

There were time in my life I withdrew really hard, I felt really lonely and felt that nobody understands me (a truly unhealthy 4 :D). My friends did not see me for months... and I didn't share my thoughts with anybody ...
Right now I would say I'm healthier, I conciously try to share things that are important for me with some people I trust.
So perhaps it is also a matter of the levels of development?
 

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I'm actually very withdrawn for an ENFP.. sometimes even to the point where I will declare that I need "a break away from everything and everyone" a few times in a week.
There are lots of reasons for this. I am actually very aware on when I loose engery and even the slightest loss of energy will make me feel the need to withdraw from people (just to be safe ya know). Because of this, I isolate myself on purpose because I think to myself "eh I might as well stay home since I would loose energy from socializing anyways whats the point?". I also feel the need to be very self aware of my own emotions. Socializing distracts me from my emotions.. it's rather refreshing at times so I can't really decide between getting my butt out there or just being alone. Most of the times, I decide to be alone. Also, being withdrawn just gives me a sense of comfort although being withdrawn for too long isn't a healthy thing for me. I think it's about finding the correct time to withdraw from people.
 

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I think I am more withdrawn then I actually might be to be honest. I am in my head a lot so when I overview myself in regards to introversion/extroversion I think of myself as being introverted because I am more concerned with what I am thinking and what is in my thoughts. That being said I realized recently that I spend a lot of time participating in the outside world and being in various social spheres. I also think the variants will also come into play as well as it has been mentioned. Going back to the main post I think the descriptions aren't very accurate at least in my case. I questioned if I was a 4 for a long time because I just didn't feel that wounded or that disillusioned but I realized that I did feel that way a lot when I was abused and that my motivation was to find someone who truly valued and accepted me for who I was, rather then any other extraneous factors.

I think the social side of 4w3 can appear very confident and extroverted when healthy. I know that at times I can lapse into a certain role if need be in many social situations because I need there to be some movement or interest in participating with my surroundings. I feel alone in crowds and so I need to feel apart of them to feel more at ease. I don't really have much problems with socializing or engaging with people on the outside. I can play, tease, joke and in some form entertain if I feel social and safe enough but at the same time I may feel that I am not being true to my core self because it feels like I am just entertaining to entertain and have something to do. I would be much more interested in finding one person to talk to and having a true conversation with no boundaries. I often feel limited in social settings, as if I have to wear or perform a mask.

As to the effect of the 3 wing, in me I think it's rather large. I think it's pretty much the sole credit of all my success thus far, but at the same time I don't really acknowledge it on the inside, it's more acknowledged on the outside and remarked on by other people - which is one of the reasons originally why I didn't think I was a 3 because they seem to be these incredibly strong people who just achieve seamlessly. I guess how a 4w3 can differ from 4w5 is that I don't feel the need to endlessly download information so to speak, that doesn't mean I don't think about it but when I imagine a 4w5 I think of a person who sit endlessly in a room and checks everything 15 times over with a variety of 10 sources each time. Very much like Batman pulling an all nighter. With me I will consult a few people, check in with myself and then go about contemplating what I will need to do to pull this off in a way. I am far more concerned with what I am going to do, rather then what outside sources of people I don't know believe so to speak. I think that could be a difference.
 

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I've always lived in my own world, and I thrive on it. The 4's ability to "make his own rules" and defy the norm definitely gives me an individualistic pride which I can't get enough of. It is an unshakable source of strength.
I also enjoy the 4's ability to be at home with his pain. I face the worst, I embrace and delve into the most shocking and terrifying of concepts to bring myself closer to the dark side of reality, it gives me deep satisfaction to so purely expose my vulnerability through "invulnerable art", because that's what really gets to people.
And therein lies the 3 wing: I have an unshakable confidence when tasked to perform. I combine the 4's extreme self-consciousness and intuition with the 3's desire for the spotlight. There is definitely an appeasement factor going on that perhaps is not present in 4w5's. I get satisfaction from connecting with people in a genuine, yet scintillating manner.
But when unbalanced, I can seem like quite the narcissist. I always strive to stay true to my core 4 type and remain genuine, lest I end up feeling so guilty and fake.
I walk home alone. I spend nearly all my free time alone, my public persona uses up a lot of energy and I am always happy to withdraw whenever I'm not working. I don't have a "need" to be around people and I cherish being able to disappear behind my castle walls and close the gate.
It's the contrasting public/private split that is evident in type 4w3.
 

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Question: Even though you're a 4w3, do you still feel as though the other wing(Five) is strong in you? I ask because I feel my wing five and wing three are almost equally strong...
I actually feel the same. And in tests, both 3 and 5 are equally strong with me. I think I might be a 4w3 with 5 as one of my tritypes.

The flamboyant stereotype of 4w3 is the reason I haven't considered 4w3 as much in the past, but I'm quite ambitious about obtaining success. When I have to do a presentation at school, I become shaking nervous and get the urge to escape but when I had to perform as the lead in a musical in front of hundreds of unknown people there was nothing. Well, I was a little nervous before the first performance, but as soon as I walked on stage and saw all those people looking at me, I couldn't help thinking that they all looked really stupid and my nerves disappeared just like that and didn't come back at the other performances.

However, the thought of public speaking does scare me. It's a little confusing but I think that a situation where I can present something without being openly judged while I do it (as with presentations and public speaking (because people can ask questions)) is way more natural to me than a situation where I can be judged. If I had to deliver something to an audience and get something back from them, I'd be scared like hell, but if I just had to deliver and leave the audience to take it or leave it however they wish, I'd be much more calm.
 

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I only withdraw when someone does me wrong.
I'm not usually the first to approach someone. Just depends on the day.
I used to be really withdrawn cuz of all this petty drama people started on me.

Now I like kicking it with people who are interesting and make the day more enjoyable and productive.
Usually people come to me, though. I don't get too much alone time these days cause I make more money the more people I meet.
So I try to cram a lot of self-oriented exercises when I'm alone. basically just learning about radical topics like buddhism or this for example.
 

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In all 4w3 descriptions, it implies they are flamboyant, overly dramatic and apparently more emotionally expressive than 4w5s. I'm not one to put much faith in descriptions, but so far the 4w3s I have met in life have lived up to their, well...reputation.

So yeah, in spite of my initial dismissal of 4w3, I am considering it now. So I need all 4w3s to tell me how dosed with withdrawal they are. I, personally, could be called Mrs Recluse because my withdrawing needs are extreme. Any 4w3s that are excessively withdrawn?
I'm one of those 4w3s who lives up to the stereotype, I suppose. My social withdrawals are few and far between. They certainly occur....I think in a general pattern following extended periods of socializing without times to recharge or at times of extreme personal stress. Then I sorta disappear, without explanations or warning, and most people don't even realize what's happened. sooner or later I snap out of it and retake my place among the living. ;) As someone else mentioned, I view this as the conflict between the needs of the 3 and 4 wings.

An interesting dynamic for me has been public speaking/presentations. I was able to give a speech at my high school graduation, and although everyone assured me that I didn't have to and could simply hand over my duties to someone else, I decided to go ahead and make the speech anyways. It was one of the most frightening things I've ever done, but I made it, and realized how much I loved being in the spotlight with everyone's attention on my words. That's still how I feel now, on a smaller scale....terrified to speak, but exhilarated at the opportunity to put myself out there.
 

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Erm. Withdrawn? I wouldn't call myself withdrawn or "quiet" per se, but I wouldn't call myself the life of the party either. My 3-ness has mostly manifested itself in learning how to behave in a way that is socially acceptable. When I was younger this was actually unhealthy -- I would analyze the behavior in social situations to an extent where I would be trying to become a replicate of someone else in order to feel acceptable. This obviously had the opposite effect than what I was going for. When I began to realize that I am actually okay as I am (Not a big revelation, right? But in the past year I remember crying when that really hit me. I was researching Fours and being very self-critical when I realized that this was my type. This was me, I couldn't change, and hating myself was doing nothing but making me miserable. In those moments afterward I knew what it was like to completely and wholly love and accept myself. Of course that faded - years-long habits just don't go away in a snap.)

Since recognizing that I had been trying to change myself into another person, denying myself and my "differentness" (Different is beautiful, people!), and began learning how to accept myself and my flaws (especially the flaw of feeling defective) things began to look up. I have never really been withdrawn, because even when I was trying to be someone else I was acting extroverted. Now I only speak when I feel the situation calls for me to speak, or when I want to. Thankfully, those years of hardcore observation didn't go to waste! I can take societal cues well enough that I can create a cordial relationship with just about anyone, even a type that completely confuses me, like an ISTJ. At first it was a rocky road, but with practice around people and self-love I think anyone can learn to make friends with anyone.

And now I've gone off on a tangent. Urgh! Sorry! Okay, conclusion - no, I'm not excessively withdrawn. I think 4w3s would be inherently driven to overcome that or at least compromise with it, since it hinders success in the relationship arena and 4w3s are delightfully ambitious.

P.S. Have you noticed I'm definitely dominant in the Type 9 arena as well? Yeah.
 
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